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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Missing headshots in SWAT should equal death.  Your scenario about two players both missing is irrelevant.

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SWAT is the least offensive playlist for bloom, but in principle it’s still bad.

I will say though, as someone that just doesn’t dig swat, I think I hate Reach’s the least. I wouldn’t say bloom makes it better, but at least it feels different. I still barely played it.

I think I liked that I felt emboldened to challenge someone that saw me first, especially at range. I never felt that way in other swats.

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1 minute ago, Hard Way said:

SWAT is the least offensive playlist for bloom, but in principle it’s still bad.

Players who choose their kills can fire a laser beam.  Players who spam their fire button are punished.  How is that bad?

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Players who choose their kills can fire a laser beam.  Players who spam their fire button are punished.  How is that bad?

Because sometimes they’re not punished at all, and the person using the mechanic as intended ends up being punished for having discretion.

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What does it matter? Team Slayer and SWAT aren't going anywhere in Halo. You guys acting like 343 is going to launch a Halo game without gametypes that are a staple to the series and claim it's part of a "sustain" plan. They would never do that.

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1 minute ago, Hard Way said:

Because sometimes they’re not punished at all, and the person using the mechanic as intended ends up being punished for having discretion.

That’s not true.  Missing a shot in SWAT turns your weapon from a laser beam into a lottery.  Hitting first shots is rewarded in swat.

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1 minute ago, Donald Trump said:

What does it matter? Team Slayer and SWAT aren't going anywhere in Halo. You guys acting like 343 is going to launch a Halo game without gametypes that are a staple to the series and claim it's part of a "sustain" plan. They would never do that.

No one's saying that. At best I just wish some wouldn't be ranked. Not that they'd be gone.

5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Players who choose their kills can fire a laser beam.  Players who spam their fire button are punished.  How is that bad?

This was essentially Bungie's defense.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

What was bungie’s defense?

That bloom is skillful shot-pacing and punishes those who spam. When it's not.

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1 minute ago, TheIcePrincess said:

That bloom is skillful shot-pacing and punishes those who spam. When it's not.

There is no shot pacing in SWAT so what the fuck are you talking about?

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8 minutes ago, Boyo said:

There is no shot pacing in SWAT so what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm saying bloom is fucking garbage and the definitive hallmark of an uncompetitive game and playlist, lol.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

I'm saying bloom is fucking garbage and the definitive hallmark of an uncompetitive game and playlist, lol.

Players who hit their first shot should be rewarded.  Players who miss their first shot should be punished.  We can agree on this, correct?

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Just now, Boyo said:

Players who hit their first shot should be rewarded.  Players who miss their first shot should be punished.  We can agree on this, correct?

"Sure" we do. But I don't agree that we should put random elements into the game to promote that.

Concept's agreeable to a point, execution is not.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

"Sure" we do. But I don't agree that we should put random elements into the game to promote that.

Concept's agreeable to a point, execution is not.

How would you punish players who miss their first shot?

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Just now, Boyo said:

How would you punish players who miss their first shot?

Dunno. Too many things to consider to accurately say "this punishes/rewards X". At best, I'd say just make the gun hard to where every shot missed is extra punishment as much as every shot hit is extra reward.

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2 hours ago, Boyo said:

How would you punish players who miss their first shot?

Death from the other player who doesn't miss the first shot. Simple as that.

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3 hours ago, Boyo said:

That’s not true.  Missing a shot in SWAT turns your weapon from a laser beam into a lottery.  Hitting first shots is rewarded in swat.

It's not true that sometimes bloomed shots still hit? You sure about that? You really wanna make that argument?

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7 hours ago, Boyo said:

How would you punish players who miss their first shot?

Easy. Lower the shots to kill or the time to kill.

Less shots to kill = less chances to get it wrong. The more shots in the average kill time, the more chances bad players have against good.

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10 hours ago, Boyo said:

Missing headshots in SWAT should equal death.  Your scenario about two players both missing is irrelevant.

10 hours ago, Boyo said:

That’s not true.  Missing a shot in SWAT turns your weapon from a laser beam into a lottery.  Hitting first shots is rewarded in swat.

How is any scenario which happens in real gameplay irrelevant? Of course its relevant. To use your own example.  Turning any shooting contest into a lottery is terrible design. That lottery can be randomly won by the guy spamming the trigger, off target, because bloom wings his bullet to the other players face before he can turn. Bloom's randomness makes people who's aim is totally off suddenly hit their target for no reason. Hitting first shot is rewarded in literally every gametype for every weapon design. Bloom actually tempers this advantage.  A player pacing their shots with bloom can get off 5 shots while a spamming player can get off 7 in the same timeframe iirc with Reach's DMR. This gives the spamming player 2 extra shots. Many times they will miss and lose anyway, but sometimes the less disciplined less accurate player can be helped by bloom and win the battle when they were more off target than the other guy.  You can feel when this happens in Reach and its total dogshit.  Swat is no exception because not every battle is going to be a one shot kill.  Even swat has some battles that go back and forth.  Thats less likely, so bloom is less terrible in SWAT, but being "less bad" =/= good.

10 hours ago, Hard Way said:

SWAT is the least offensive playlist for bloom, but in principle it’s still bad.

I will say though, as someone that just doesn’t dig swat, I think I hate Reach’s the least. I wouldn’t say bloom makes it better, but at least it feels different. I still barely played it.

I think I liked that I felt emboldened to challenge someone that saw me first, especially at range. I never felt that way in other swats.

I think reach's swat is better because its based on a weapon that doesn't give partial-credit-sweeping-headshots like the BR, and uses a less spammy single shot weapon than the H5 magnum.  Bloom still makes every encounter that takes more than 1 shot to finish bullshit though.  It might be better with the TU.

Speaking of weapon design, Favyn's new video is out:

 

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If you had ever actually played any high level swat, you would know that no headshots are hit with bloom active.

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3 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If you had ever actually played any high level swat, you would know that no headshots are hit with bloom active.

Its statistically impossible for that to be true.

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Just now, Apoll0 said:

Its statistically impossible for that to be true.

I’m glad you can keep talking about something you haven’t personally experienced.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

I’m glad you can keep talking about something you haven’t personally experienced.

I've played enough Reach, including SWAT, to know how BS bloom is. I think everybody here has.  You are not special in this regard, sorry.

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1 minute ago, Apoll0 said:

I've played enough Reach, including SWAT, to know how BS bloom is. I think everybody here has.  You are not special in this regard, sorry.

You are pretending to be an expert on something you know nothing about.  Really wish I didn’t have to call you out on it.

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In SWAT, go spam shots against good players and tell me how that works out for you.  I am eagerly waiting for your results.

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