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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

SWAT and Snipers should have permanent, unranked playlists and let Halotracker handle ranks.  This way you don’t get players who are only interested in “getting their 50” playing them but hardcore fans can still compare themselves to other players.

I just don’t understand how people can say that SWAT shouldn’t have its own playlist.  It’s the third most popular playlist behind Slayer and BTB. It’s like these people are detached from reality.

Or, we could just put them in the match composer, and not fool people with meaningless ranks in uncompetitive gametypes, lol. Still available to players. Just not falsely held up on the same pedestal as HCS settings.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Or, we could just put them in the match composer, and not fool people with meaningless ranks in uncompetitive gametypes, lol. Still available to players. Just not falsely held up on the same pedestal as HCS settings.

How is SWAT or Snipers uncompetitive?  Aren’t you the same person that advocates for Utility only gameplay?  How can you shit on single weapon gametypes?

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Just now, Boyo said:

How is SWAT or Snipers uncompetitive?  Aren’t you the same person that advocates for Utility only gameplay?  How can you shit on single weapon gametypes?

SWAT is primarily about facepainting (Thanks, BRs), and removes almost any competitive aspect of the game, focusing on reaction time over movement, positioning, etc. You could be on the bottom of the map and nail an overkill. Or in the proper position, and be killed by a Bronze player, lol, things actual settings mitigate for obvious reasons, and through tangible methods. It puts too much of an emphasis on the wrong things for this game series to be competitively viable. 

Snipers should speak for itself, lol. In a console shooter where the weapon has never been inherently difficult, there's no reason to rank snipers, or treat it as competitive. It's always been social shit.

I'll shit on single weapon gametypes when that single weapon is garbage to use in a competitive environment. Let alone as the sole weapon in a competitive environment.

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Show me some of your best sniping clips.  You are talking out of your ass.

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Frank O’Connor really likes SWAT. Just gonna put that out there.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

Show me some of your best sniping clips.  You are talking out of your ass.

You're not getting my point. I'm not saying people are hitting sick, 360 no scope overkills 24/7, every time and this is why it shouldn't be ranked. I'm saying the weapon in general just isn't difficult enough to warrant being ranked or seen as a competitive gametype. It's easier by design to warrant picking it up in the first place. Not to mention it also comes down to a SWAT point where you can be killed by anyone in one shot, without a fight, regardless of skill.

It Breakout wasn't competitive, there's no way in hell snipers is.

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If the Sniper is so easy to use, surely you have an entire library of clips of you going HAM with it.  Can I see those clips?

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If the Sniper is so easy to use, surely you have an entire library of clips of you going HAM with it.  Can I see those clips?

Whoosh.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Whoosh.

Show me one, ONE, clip of you doing something with the Sniper Rifle.  You must have at least one overkill right?

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6 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Show me one, ONE, clip of you doing something with the Sniper Rifle.  You must have at least one overkill right?

You're still not getting how this is literally irrelevant to my point. 

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

You're still not getting how this is literally irrelevant to my point. 

You claim that the Sniper is brain dead easy to use.  I am asking for you to support that claim.  Honestly, I would eat my shoe if you could show me that you even played the original Halo 2 multiplayer online.  Every instinct tells me that MCC is your first experience with a lot of these games.

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Keep it civil please. We're at the tipping point...

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Just now, Boyo said:

You claim that the Sniper is brain dead easy to use.  I am asking for you to support that claim.  Honestly, I would eat my shoe if you could show me that you even played the original Halo 2 multiplayer online.  Every instinct tells me that MCC is your first experience with a lot of these games.

No I didn't, I only claimed it's easier to use. Here's a solid quote. 

18 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I'm not saying people are hitting sick, 360 no scope overkills 24/7, every time and this is why it shouldn't be ranked. I'm saying the weapon in general just isn't difficult enough to warrant being ranked or seen as a competitive gametype. It's easier by design to warrant picking it up in the first place.

Nowhere did I say it's braindead. I just said it's easier. Big difference, and also something we acknowledge. 

Don't go after my franchise experience, go after the weapon itself.

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What is your franchise experience?

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When someone is making claims, is it not a reasonable question to ask if they have ever actually experienced the things they are speaking about?  I believe it is reasonable.

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3 hours ago, Boyo said:

You would think that since the competitive community gets shit on by the majority of the playerbase, that you of all people would have respect for other communities like SWAT or Snipers.  But you turn around and shit on them.  Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

Thats not what anybody is saying.  People can have whatever playlist they want, there are just some like SWAT and Snipers that don't deserve to be ranked.  Both of those encourage passive gameplay as long as you are playing against like-skilled opponents.  They don't lend themselves to the breadth of gametypes that really need to be played to demonstrate high-level skill. They are basically "one trick pony" gametypes.  The actual difficulty of the weapons is really irrelevant.

 

People around here shit on those gametypes from a perspective of competitive viability.  They are objectively worse measures of skill.  I remember Menke actually discussing this in an update blog waaaay back. You can see it in the skill data.

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1 minute ago, Boyo said:

When someone is making claims, is it not a reasonable question to ask if they have ever actually experienced the things they are speaking about?  I believe it is reasonable.

Sorry, double post (how do you edit and move a quote into an existing post around these parts...). 

1) Its not unreasonable, but the way you actually ask shouldn't make you sound like a dickhole.

2) anybody that has been around here for any length of time should know that Ice Princess has experience with this shit.  You don't need to agree with her conclusions, but the experience is certainly there.

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Working on getting some adjustments made to H3 obj gametypes now that they’re  out of ranked. Hopefully if these get approved, they can add the obj gametypes back in down the road.

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2 hours ago, Gobias said:

Frank O’Connor really likes SWAT. Just gonna put that out there.

He created it. Along with dino blasters.

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I feel like Snipers and Swat (or all unranked playlists for that matter) should have a ranking system like Halo 3's social did at the very least. Not built upon W/L, K/D/A, or anything like that. Just something to progress towards. I'm not opposed to having more ranked playlists though, if its popular and people enjoy being it being ranked why would I refuse that?

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4 hours ago, Apoll0 said:

Thats not what anybody is saying.  People can have whatever playlist they want, there are just some like SWAT and Snipers that don't deserve to be ranked.  Both of those encourage passive gameplay as long as you are playing against like-skilled opponents.  They don't lend themselves to the breadth of gametypes that really need to be played to demonstrate high-level skill. They are basically "one trick pony" gametypes.  The actual difficulty of the weapons is really irrelevant.

 

People around here shit on those gametypes from a perspective of competitive viability.  They are objectively worse measures of skill.  I remember Menke actually discussing this in an update blog waaaay back. You can see it in the skill data.

Basically this. Even in H3 where the sniper was hard to use I've never regarded it as a premier competitive playlist. It was harder to get a 50 in Snipers than Slayer and SWAT obviously but at the same time Team Snipers is more of an Action Sack thing than an actual competitive gametype. Montage kids love it and people who are too bad at timing weapons to ever get a sniper, that's about it. It's a fun niche gametype, but we don't have ranked Griffball either.

I remember a GDC talk from Menke where he said he likes games with a wide skill gap because it makes ranking systems and matchmaking way less of a headache. It gives me hope that at least one person in that company doesn't think shrinking the skill gap to irrelevant levels is a good way to improve this franchise.

4 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Working on getting some adjustments made to H3 obj gametypes now that they’re  out of ranked. Hopefully if these get approved, they can add the obj gametypes back in down the road.

What do you mean by out of ranked? Did the Slayer kids win and get objective removed from H3 Arena? Besides that, thank you for continuing to fix these awful settings we've been playing for over a decade. 15 second flag return times on small maps just should not be a thing.

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I dont see why any competitive Halo player would feel the need to have party modes like Snipers, Swat, BtB, or H4 ranked.  

*insert joke about H3 Radar Dubs ranked here*

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