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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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57 minutes ago, Basu said:

Didn't even know that, great news. I remember the controversy when postums announced AR and SMG starts would return for the relaunch, nice to know that the bigger cancer of the two is gone. 

I've only ever met one person in real life who genuinely preferred SMG starts. I asked them why and they said "because the people with BR always kill you over and over."

He was the most thumbless player you have ever seen in your entire life. The kind of player that trades sniper for needler in Halo 2. Worse than that, he'd walk over the needler, stop just out of pickup range for a whole second, run back and overshoot again. He'd repeat that 500 times, finally get the needler and die only to scream ceaselessly about how broken the BR is even though he died to a grenade.

Needleress to say, every time I see someone who prefers SMG starts all I can see is that guy in my TAFE class. 

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

Needleress to say,

Did you just....

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2 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I've only ever met one person in real life who genuinely preferred SMG starts. I asked them why and they said "because the people with BR always kill you over and over."

He was the most thumbless player you have ever seen in your entire life. The kind of player that trades sniper for needler in Halo 2. Worse than that, he'd walk over the needler, stop just out of pickup range for a whole second, run back and overshoot again. He'd repeat that 500 times, finally get the needler and die only to scream ceaselessly about how broken the BR is even though he died to a grenade.

Needleress to say, every time I see someone who prefers SMG starts all I can see is that guy in my TAFE class. 

Haha I had a similar experience in Reach. DMR starts get voted for "oh my god I fucking hate DMR starts they always shoot you from across the map REEE", if course he was a legit rank 10 in H3 TS and couldn't aim for shit. Switched to CoD a few weeks later and never looked back, shame.

What they should do is bring back the team duals gametype for Action Sack because that shit was wack and fun, then get rid of all other non-precision starts forever. Handicapping competitive gammodes with auto starts just makes precisely (huehue) no one happy.

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23 hours ago, Shekkles said:

If it makes you feel better, they at least removed SMG starts from match composer. Halo 3 has AR starts but Halo 2/2A has only BR starts.

You’re welcome btw ;)

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11 hours ago, Hard Way said:

You’re welcome btw ;)

I went from 50 hours in MCC to 200 when I found out.

Also I really can't decide which Halo I like most of the original trilogy. They all came at important moments in my life and also became important in my life. 

I think I love all three equally. I can't ever choose which one I like most. 

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Did MCC get a huge population boost or something? I swear I'm finding matches way faster than I used to. The game is also a ton of fun now that it finally works, can't wait for the progression system and ranked ZBNS and Invasion.

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On 6/16/2019 at 3:26 AM, WildCherry said:

I agree on FFA playlist 100%. Remove H2 Hardcore cause it's dead. Put FFA under competitive but have no ranks. Low population is why. Let the cats do their thing pink 2 on Middy/Lock. I'm really not sure about the slider options in cartographer though (FOV for one.) let's keep people on equal playing fields.

Wait so you want remove the H2 Hardcore playlist and have an unranked FFA playlist?  Where's the competitive outlet for H2 MCC players going to be?  Nobody wants those players searching Match Composer.  
 

On 6/16/2019 at 3:59 AM, aa_Pregnant_Nun said:

I don't think removing H2 Hardcore is a good idea especially considering the game is being released on PC and will have a massive population increase bc its at the top of steam wishlist's right now.

As for the crosshair size option I think its important to have as many other big fps games on PC also have this option and as for adjusting the fov that's already confirmed for the PC release, same with adjusting crosshair location. It's about personal preference and shoulden't have anything to do with being on an even playing field as it doesn't give a player an advantage over another, which is why I want crosshair size options to exist because having a small crosshair is just my preference on PC.

I concur, 4v4 Hardcore Halo 2 should remain a ranked playlist when MCC comes to PC, unless we get a couple of MLG dedi lobbies when the Custom Games Browser comes out.

On 6/16/2019 at 12:23 PM, Cursed Lemon said:

Please do not remove the only reason I even play H2, thanks. 

This.  I truly cannot comprehend why anyone would want to play ranked Arena settings over MLG variants in H2.

On 6/16/2019 at 4:44 PM, WildCherry said:

Changed it to removing ranks in it. I cant even find a game.

Hard to find a game when the higher echelon of players don't play or support the scene.  I don't play 24/7 like some people do, but I have not once seen you, Zyfe, Scotty, Gregor, or Sepseven search Halo 2 Hardcore since the August update; not as a team nor as solos.  But to be fair, it's not like the players that were good in '07 play or support the game today either.

Also I don't think the solution here is to remove literally the best Halo 2 playlist MCC has ever gotten.  

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On 6/17/2019 at 1:59 AM, Shekkles said:

I've only ever met one person in real life who genuinely preferred SMG starts. I asked them why and they said "because the people with BR always kill you over and over."

He was the most thumbless player you have ever seen in your entire life. The kind of player that trades sniper for needler in Halo 2. Worse than that, he'd walk over the needler, stop just out of pickup range for a whole second, run back and overshoot again. He'd repeat that 500 times, finally get the needler and die only to scream ceaselessly about how broken the BR is even though he died to a grenade.

Needleress to say, every time I see someone who prefers SMG starts all I can see is that guy in my TAFE class. 

And 343 will be like “this guys opinion matters” 

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I really hate the sound in halo CE. I can’t tell if someone’s above or below me on prisoner. Is this intentional? 

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55 minutes ago, darkstar said:

 

 

Is this video yours? If so I saw 'How 343 Industries Has Affected Halo' was a pretty good video detailing good facts about 343.

Video here for anyone who hasn't seen: 

 

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2 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Wait so you want remove the H2 Hardcore playlist and have an unranked FFA playlist?  Where's the competitive outlet for H2 MCC players going to be?  Nobody wants those players searching Match Composer.  
 

I concur, 4v4 Hardcore Halo 2 should remain a ranked playlist when MCC comes to PC, unless we get a couple of MLG dedi lobbies when the Custom Games Browser comes out.

This.  I truly cannot comprehend why anyone would want to play ranked Arena settings over MLG variants in H2.

Hard to find a game when the higher echelon of players don't play or support the scene.  I don't play 24/7 like some people do, but I have not once seen you, Zyfe, Scotty, Gregor, or Sepseven search Halo 2 Hardcore since the August update; not as a team nor as solos.  But to be fair, it's not like the players that were good in '07 play or support the game today either.

Also I don't think the solution here is to remove literally the best Halo 2 playlist MCC has ever gotten.  

He might be onto something making it unranked, especially once progression is released. It’d still be segregated from Match Composer, so people looking for it know they’re searching a competitive playlist. That alone should make for reasonably skilled opponents most of the time, and it would fix the search times issue and the smurfing issue.

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7 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

He might be onto something making it unranked, especially once progression is released. It’d still be segregated from Match Composer, so people looking for it know they’re searching a competitive playlist. That alone should make for reasonably skilled opponents most of the time, and it would fix the search times issue and the smurfing issue.

You and I both know that this isn't going to happen.  At best we'll get one or two dedicated server lobbies in the Custom Games Browser for MLG 4v4 CE and H2.


It would be amazing if we could somehow get neutral starting spawns in 4s and starting grenades in Backwash.  Just...anything really.
 

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3 hours ago, Mow said:

 

Is this video yours? If so I saw 'How 343 Industries Has Affected Halo' was a pretty good video detailing good facts about 343.

Video here for anyone who hasn't seen: 

 

Haha, no. The videos are published by Tommy Kost. I just share his videos here because he is one of the few competent and consistent Halo YouTubers who actually understands the problems with Halo and offers solutions to these problems, many of which us around here have been articulating for years. 

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5 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Hard to find a game when the higher echelon of players don't play or support the scene.  I don't play 24/7 like some people do, but I have not once seen you, Zyfe, Scotty, Gregor, or Sepseven search Halo 2 Hardcore since the August update; not as a team nor as solos.  But to be fair, it's not like the players that were good in '07 play or support the game today either.

Also I don't think the solution here is to remove literally the best Halo 2 playlist MCC has ever gotten.  

I still play a couple times a week, always try to search HC when I'm on but cannot find a game. Sep still plays as well(good bit of H3.) and Gregor plays every day since he's been with 343. Always end up having to go into the composer to find H2 games.

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@Squatting Bear, @Basu, I saw y'all also posted on Tommy Kost's newest podcast. Regarding the bit starting at 55:08, I posted this in reply. I feel like it's important to get my side out there, seeing as it was buried by Ogre 2 and now Tommy Kost. My comment below:
 

I feel obligated to comment about the change to the Halo CE score limit, since it was primarily my idea. I'm very active in the Reclaimer group, particularly for CE. The 4v4 core gametypes as we know them in MM (TS, King, Ball and CTF) are primarily my design. I wanted to increase the score limit in 4v4 TS because we were using the same score limit as 2v2, and every game was only lasting for 5 minutes. Catching a team in one good spawn trap, which is frequent in 4v4 CE, netted you about 1/3rd of the game. You only needed to win a handful of powerup cycles. It was a fraction of a game. Imagine playing 4v4 H3 to 25. It's stupid. We wanted a game that lasted 8-10 minutes. That was the rationale for the change.

Resistance came from 2 separate arguments. The first was tradition. Back in 02-04, MLG's tournament settings for 4v4 were to 50 kills. Okay, but that's only, ONLY because the game didn't ship with a 100 option. Given that they had the sense to play 2v2 to 50, and given the MLG settings that would come in later titles, do you honestly think they wouldn't have used 100 if it were available to them? I know it was available on modded boxes, but no tournament organizer was going to use settings you needed a modded box just to practice. The tradition argument was one born from restriction, NOT merit, so it's bullshit and should be disregarded now that we don't have the same restriction.

The second argument holds more weight. People will quit, particularly when they're getting shit on, and particularly when they know they're gonna have to die 25 times before the game ends. This argument makes way more sense. Playing hide and seek for 15 minutes is awful, and that's usually what happened when the best player in the world searches social (especially with a to4 ffs). I view this problem as more related to quit penalties, time limits, and lack of incentive to finish games than I do a problem with the score limit. A game with no quitters/afk to 100 lasts about 10 minutes. Tell me again how that's unreasonable. I found it frustrating that for Halo CE and CE only, we were designing our settings around the possibility that someone might quit. I wanted the potential for a great game to exist every time, instead of kneecapping every single game at 50, just when it's really getting going, just in case someone quits. I think anyone that has played legit games of 4v4 CE to 100 will tell you, it feels like a full, real game. Not this mini-game BS to 50 that's over before the rockets can respawn twice.

Now, I understand that this panel wasn't comprised of a bunch of CE guys, so I don't fault any of you for not knowing how CE plays. But I did find it funny that that whole rant about CE settings came just after talking about how we shouldn't get feedback from people that don't play the game. I was trying to make the game better, and it got ruined by quitters. I still believe to this day that 4v4 CE should be played to 100 (double the 2v2 limit, imagine that...), but now with the benefit of hindsight, I know that people are soft as baby shit, and will quit at the first sign of adversity, and so that reality can't exist in MM.

I will say though, that I can commiserate about the twitter polls screwing over the game you love. The first time the kill limit was reverted back to 50, I remember reading loads of comments akin to "Every other game plays to 50, why should CE be any different?" Gee, maybe bc it plays differently? They just give away the game right there that they don't actually play the shit they're voting on. It's frustrating as hell, and I feel you there.

Anyways, I love your channel, and I'm looking forward to the next video. Take care.

-Hard Way

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29 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

@Squatting Bear, @Basu, I saw y'all also posted on Tommy Kost's newest podcast. Regarding the bit starting at 55:08, I posted this in reply. I feel like it's important to get my side out there, seeing as it was buried by Ogre 2 and now Tommy Kost. My comment below:
 

I feel obligated to comment about the change to the Halo CE score limit, since it was primarily my idea. I'm very active in the Reclaimer group, particularly for CE. The 4v4 core gametypes as we know them in MM (TS, King, Ball and CTF) are primarily my design. I wanted to increase the score limit in 4v4 TS because we were using the same score limit as 2v2, and every game was only lasting for 5 minutes. Catching a team in one good spawn trap, which is frequent in 4v4 CE, netted you about 1/3rd of the game. You only needed to win a handful of powerup cycles. It was a fraction of a game. Imagine playing 4v4 H3 to 25. It's stupid. We wanted a game that lasted 8-10 minutes. That was the rationale for the change.

Resistance came from 2 separate arguments. The first was tradition. Back in 02-04, MLG's tournament settings for 4v4 were to 50 kills. Okay, but that's only, ONLY because the game didn't ship with a 100 option. Given that they had the sense to play 2v2 to 50, and given the MLG settings that would come in later titles, do you honestly think they wouldn't have used 100 if it were available to them? I know it was available on modded boxes, but no tournament organizer was going to use settings you needed a modded box just to practice. The tradition argument was one born from restriction, NOT merit, so it's bullshit and should be disregarded now that we don't have the same restriction.

The second argument holds more weight. People will quit, particularly when they're getting shit on, and particularly when they know they're gonna have to die 25 times before the game ends. This argument makes way more sense. Playing hide and seek for 15 minutes is awful, and that's usually what happened when the best player in the world searches social (especially with a to4 ffs). I view this problem as more related to quit penalties, time limits, and lack of incentive to finish games than I do a problem with the score limit. A game with no quitters/afk to 100 lasts about 10 minutes. Tell me again how that's unreasonable. I found it frustrating that for Halo CE and CE only, we were designing our settings around the possibility that someone might quit. I wanted the potential for a great game to exist every time, instead of kneecapping every single game at 50, just when it's really getting going, just in case someone quits. I think anyone that has played legit games of 4v4 CE to 100 will tell you, it feels like a full, real game. Not this mini-game BS to 50 that's over before the rockets can respawn twice.

Now, I understand that this panel wasn't comprised of a bunch of CE guys, so I don't fault any of you for not knowing how CE plays. But I did find it funny that that whole rant about CE settings came just after talking about how we shouldn't get feedback from people that don't play the game. I was trying to make the game better, and it got ruined by quitters. I still believe to this day that 4v4 CE should be played to 100 (double the 2v2 limit, imagine that...), but now with the benefit of hindsight, I know that people are soft as baby shit, and will quit at the first sign of adversity, and so that reality can't exist in MM.

I will say though, that I can commiserate about the twitter polls screwing over the game you love. The first time the kill limit was reverted back to 50, I remember reading loads of comments akin to "Every other game plays to 50, why should CE be any different?" Gee, maybe bc it plays differently? They just give away the game right there that they don't actually play the shit they're voting on. It's frustrating as hell, and I feel you there.

Anyways, I love your channel, and I'm looking forward to the next video. Take care.

-Hard Way

I honestly loved it being at 75 more than 100 simply because of the YES the potential quitting

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Every 100 kil game was rampant with quitting on the average.

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It was. You're right. It just sucks that we can't play LAN/custom quality settings in MM bc people can't handle a tough game.

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13 hours ago, Hard Way said:

It was. You're right. It just sucks that we can't play LAN/custom quality settings in MM bc people can't handle a tough game.

I still maintain an H3-style EXP progression system that awards +1 for a win, and -1 for a quit (even in social) is the best method to decentivize quitting. It awards sticking it out till the end. There were plenty of times playing Halo 3 back in the day where I wanted to quit after falling behind early in the game, only to prevail in the end simply because I did not want to lose any EXP. 

Pair this with a Reach-style quit probation and I think we’ll see a drastic decrease in quitters while promoting a fun grind that aids in longevity. 

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For as long as Halo doesn't have party restrictions quitting shouldn't be penalized. No one should have to sit through getting farmed because the developers are too dumb to have a good matchmaking system. 

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36 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

For as long as Halo doesn't have party restrictions quitting shouldn't be penalized. No one should have to sit through getting farmed because the developers are too dumb to have a good matchmaking system. 

I wish I didn't agree with this.

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Beast makes a good point, but we don't want another H5 "social" on our hands. I think we're all on team Party Restrictions, but I think it should decay over time. Like, if you're a to4, it should try for 60sec to find you a game against any to4. From 60-90, expand it to include 3 and a solo. 90-120 includes 2 and 2, etc. And make that transparent to the user. 

Social is about quick searches and connection quality over fair matches. Obviously try to match parties, but if I want to play with 3 friends, I don't want to not be able to find a game in f'n social just because I have too many friends online. A hard restriction wouldn't work for social.

And the solution to horribly matched TS games, or any game for that matter, is a god damn vote to forfeit option. Quitting should be penalized because it gets really bad when it's not, but there should be a way out of terrible matches.

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You know how you nullify all these complaints about matchmaking?  Retain a healthy population of players.  When enough players are spread, geographically, skillwise, and party size wise, you can be matched against appropriate opponents.

You know how you retain a healthy population of players?  Make a game that people want to keep playing.  Selling copies is important and it doesn’t matter if people play for two weeks and move on, you still got their money but Halo used to be more than just a money maker.  It was a source of pride to have over a million concurrent players online at once (or however Halo 3 measured it).  It was a source of pride to have organizations want to run tournaments for Halo.  I want that pride back.

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11 hours ago, darkstar said:

I still maintain an H3-style EXP progression system that awards +1 for a win, and -1 for a loss (even in social) is the best method to decentivize quitting. It awards sticking it out till the end. There were plenty of times playing Halo 3 back in the day where I wanted to quit after falling behind early in the game, only to prevail in the end simply because I did not want to lose any EXP. 

 Pair this with a Reach-style quit probation and I think we’ll see a drastic decrease in quitters while promoting a fun grind that aids in longevity. 

If I'm going to lose 1 xp for losing, or 1 xp from quitting, that won't decentivize enough people to not quit. Maybe it did for some people in 2007 but not in today's world where people quit just being down 15-5 in Slayer or 1-0 in CTF.

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