Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, Basu said:

I wrote a 50+ page thesis last year. Reps to the right. 

I'm assuming that this was a requirement for you as it was for me?

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

I'm assuming that this was a requirement for you as it was for me?

Yes

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

I'm assuming that this was a requirement for you as it was for me?

Did you write yours on why Invasion should return?

  • Simms (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It is astounding to me that there are people in this world that can play through an entire 15 minute game, getting killed by the same weapon over and over, that they themselves have off spawn, and not once think to try using it. I can't get past what they must be thinking when they die so quickly from so far away, or why their kills are taking so long. Are they just screaming "Cheats!" at the TV? Do they wonder why their shots sound like they're automatic, and other people's shots don't? Do they just not see everyone else using a pistol?  That level of obliviousness, but moreso the complete lack of innate curiosity required to solve the problem just floors me.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Gobias said:

Did you write yours on why Invasion should return?

No I didn't. In fact, what I wrote about you'd probably find interesting. I explored the mathematical principles relating to 3 different theorem that describe how yo mama so fat that she when she goes to the movies she's sitting next to everybody.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 2
  • Toxic (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

It is astounding to me that there are people in this world that can play through an entire 15 minute game, getting killed by the same weapon over and over, that they themselves have off spawn, and not once think to try using it. I can't get past what they must be thinking when they die so quickly from so far away, or why their kills are taking so long. Are they just screaming "Cheats!" at the TV? Do they wonder why their shots sound like they're automatic, and other people's shots don't? Do they just not see everyone else using a pistol?  That level of obliviousness, but moreso the complete lack of innate curiosity required to solve the problem just floors me.

I’ve wondered the same thing for years. It’s gotta be a function of IQ or something. I have a friend I’ve known for years, and no matter how much of any game we’ve played he just never progresses in skill. It really does make you scratch your head. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It’s not a huge mystery. Automatic weapons will yield kills occasionally, even if they’re the inferior weapons in most situations. Ever wonder why many players (even skilled ones) tend to charge in for the kill repeatedly? They’re just looking for that next victory, like playing a slot machine. It’s essentially a Skinner box—the same brainless task is rewarded at intervals and the subject becomes dependent.

 

Also factor in humans’ tendency to recall good memories more often than bad ones. This is particularly pronounced in Halo players.

 

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Gobias said:

It’s not a huge mystery. Automatic weapons will yield kills occasionally, even if they’re the inferior weapons in most situations. Ever wonder why many players (even skilled ones) tend to charge in for the kill repeatedly? They’re just looking for that next victory, like playing a slot machine. It’s essentially a Skinner box—the same brainless task is rewarded at intervals and the subject becomes dependent.

 

Also factor in humans’ tendency to recall good memories more often than bad ones. This is particularly pronounced in Halo players.

 

3-32 in a 15min HeH CTF draw. He pressed his Y button zero times. I really doubt he was having much fun with that AR.

Share this post


Link to post
42 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

3-32 in a 15min HeH CTF draw. He pressed his Y button zero times. I really doubt he was having much fun with that AR.

If he’d switched to the pistol that match, he might not have gotten a single kill. In other matches the number of kills he gets is probably higher, which justifies sticking to the AR. From his perspective, it would make no sense to choose the option he believes is less reliable (the more difficult weapon). From the perspective of someone who has never practiced with the pistol, the expected payoff must seem extremely low especially since the concept of personal improvement is nonexistent with these players.

Edit: I thought you were talking about H5 not H1 lmao. Never mind

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

After the game I sent “Imagine playing for 15min and never thinking to pull out your pistol.”

He replied “That’s what you guys do?”

  • WutFace (+0) 2
  • Salt (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

After the game I sent “Imagine playing for 15min and never thinking to pull out your pistol.”

He replied “That’s what you guys do?”

If you take him under your wing, I’m sure he’ll be fraggin’ like a pro in no time.

  • WutFace (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

If you take him under your wing, I’m sure he’ll be fraggin’ like a pro in no time.

Sure, after I teach him not to look at the sun, or how to walk and chew at the same time, I’ll get right on that.

  • Upvote (+1) 4
  • Salt (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Squatting Bear said:

This game needs a playlist refresh BADLY.

literally can play whatever u want smh

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

That’s why I’m completely fine with decent autos but strong utility. Splitfire actually does this pretty ok. You shouldn’t make autos completely useless just to please us competitive players. Come on people is autos being decently strong that bad of a thing when the competitive mode takes them out anyway? 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Arlong said:

That’s why I’m completely fine with decent autos but strong utility. Splitfire actually does this pretty ok. You shouldn’t make autos completely useless just to please us competitive players. Come on people is autos being decently strong that bad of a thing when the competitive mode takes them out anyway? 

Yes, because it makes the game sweatier. When a low-skill weapon becomes viable, the skill curve is compressed and low-skilled players become better at the game and closer to each other in skill. That makes every match in the game more “competitive,” i.e. more closely contested. It’s similar to introducing radar or easy escape options.

  • Salt (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
24 minutes ago, Gobias said:

Yes, because it makes the game sweatier. When a low-skill weapon becomes viable, the skill curve is compressed and low-skilled players become better at the game and closer to each other in skill. That makes every match in the game more “competitive,” i.e. more closely contested. It’s similar to introducing radar or easy escape options.

DUDE listen. The entire game can’t afford to be super skillful. There’s a reason for a competitive playlist. Halo is the only game where autos and precision weapons have such a high dislike and love. So many confuse the precision weapons as OP(they take skill to use but most hardly care)  and it’s because autos usually are so dogshit. In the average shooter autos are used by most people it’s just what’s easiest and just feels right. 

As long as the precision weapon is dominant we can afford to have decent autos. You’re selfish as heck to believe autos should be super weak just because you believe this is the way halo should be played. This is one thing that’s really ruined halos reputation. Just because your battle ends with you half of 3/4 shields doesn’t mean the auto is too strong. See here’s what will happen if autos are too weak. They’re not going to switch to the pistol the utility, they’re going to a new game where autos aren’t dogshit. Please understand this is the best way to balance things appropriately. A decent auto but a still dominant utility/precision weapon. If anything the autos need less aim assist, but still have that big reticule that makes it easy.  H4s weapon balance wasn’t bad at all. Autos were good but the utility weapons(precision) were dominant. That’s perfect balance for halo if you ask me.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I don't want useless autos or for automatics to be completely ripped from the game.  Nor do I want braindead medium-range bullet hoses that kill just as fast as the utility while requiring far less effort.  I want automatics that are well designed, filling valid niches in both casual and competitive play.

I'm selfish because I believe braindead weapons shouldn't be as effective as skillful ones?  That's just basic game balance philosophy man.  If you make automatics easy they have to be fairly situational / weak.  If you want them to be equal with the utility in role and purpose then they need to be equally difficult as well.  But either way both situations inevitably piss off the hordes of casuals who really just want their easy, effective weapon despite how much they claim to JuSt wAnT BaLaNcE.

I think the Splitgate AR is fine, if not maybe a bit overtuned.  I have 50% as many kills with it as I do Pistol kills.  I know firsthand it is very strong and very far from underpowered when used in the right situations (cleaning off low health enemies, blindfiring through portals, hell even straight up medium range fights unless the Pistol dude has perfect aim).  But guess what...not a day goes by where I don't see some casual bitching that it LE SLOW 16 SHOT KILL AR IS SO WEAK IT NEEDS A BUFF (testing environment wasn't perfect but I know for a fact it kills in no greater than ten shots...) or PISTOL IS OP, NERF PISTOL AND MAKE AR STRONGER.  Because they won't be happy until you can literally just hold M1 and swipe at any range except maybe the furthest ranges to win fights.

  • Like (+1) 1
  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Riddler said:

literally can play whatever u want smh

Let me clarify, I meant ranked playlist specifically, the Match Composer is wonderful.  Even if it took 4 years of constant feedback for us to get it.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

I don't want useless autos or for automatics to be completely ripped from the game.  Nor do I want braindead medium-range bullet hoses that kill just as fast as the utility while requiring far less effort.  I want automatics that are well designed, filling valid niches in both casual and competitive play.

I'm selfish because I believe braindead weapons shouldn't be as effective as skillful ones?  That's just basic game balance philosophy man.  If you make automatics easy they have to be fairly situational / weak.  If you want them to be equal with the utility in role and purpose then they need to be equally difficult as well.  But either way both situations inevitably piss off the hordes of casuals who really just want their easy, effective weapon despite how much they claim to JuSt wAnT BaLaNcE.

I think the Splitgate AR is fine, if not maybe a bit overtuned.  I have 50% as many kills with it as I do Pistol kills.  I know firsthand it is very strong and very far from underpowered when used in the right situations (cleaning off low health enemies, blindfiring through portals, hell even straight up medium range fights unless the Pistol dude has perfect aim).  But guess what...not a day goes by where I don't see some casual bitching that it LE SLOW 16 SHOT KILL AR IS SO WEAK IT NEEDS A BUFF (testing environment wasn't perfect but I know for a fact it kills in no greater than ten shots...) or PISTOL IS OP, NERF PISTOL AND MAKE AR STRONGER.  Because they won't be happy until you can literally just hold M1 and swipe at any range except maybe the furthest ranges to win fights.

Lol fair enough. I think it’s jisy a problem with the pistol. It’s common to look at an auto and a pistol and think auto should be stronger. 

Share this post


Link to post

I like autos with niche uses.

Just last night I was watching the VA LAN. I believe it was O4 or Nacho who had camo rockets on Prisoner on the bottom floor by back wall, Mudbone walked down a ramp with his AR out while Devilman was about to spawn. This spawned Devilman up one floor while Mudbone lit up the camo player with the AR. The rocket player could either kill Devilman off spawn, giving Mudbone enough time to kill camo rockets, or kill Mudbone leaving Devilman time to finish off camo rockets with a pistol.

This was a super niche situation, and I thought it was cool the way it played out.

Maybe we have enough variations of weapons where we can all get roughly what we want. Let's say casual matchmaking is roughly H5 AR and H1 pistol. Competitive matchmaking is H1 AR (in the form of an SMG) and H1 pistol.

Obviously these can be changed around. Maybe everyone decides we would rather just remove autos from competitive play completely despite niche uses. Maybe the H5 AR is too weak with the H1 pistol. Point is, instead of "We have AR, PR, storm rifle, SMG, and suppressor and they all kill fast at close range", perhaps it's possible to create a little more nuance and have "AR kills fast at close range, PR stuns you, SMG will definitely hit people but you might not do a lot of damage, storm rifle drains shields very fast, suppressor is great against vehicles". Does anybody lose in this scenario assuming weapons are removed if they're not working out?

  • Like (+1) 2
  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

I don't want useless autos or for automatics to be completely ripped from the game.  Nor do I want braindead medium-range bullet hoses that kill just as fast as the utility while requiring far less effort.  I want automatics that are well designed, filling valid niches in both casual and competitive play.

I'm selfish because I believe braindead weapons shouldn't be as effective as skillful ones?  That's just basic game balance philosophy man.  If you make automatics easy they have to be fairly situational / weak.  If you want them to be equal with the utility in role and purpose then they need to be equally difficult as well.  But either way both situations inevitably piss off the hordes of casuals who really just want their easy, effective weapon despite how much they claim to JuSt wAnT BaLaNcE.

I think the Splitgate AR is fine, if not maybe a bit overtuned.  I have 50% as many kills with it as I do Pistol kills.  I know firsthand it is very strong and very far from underpowered when used in the right situations (cleaning off low health enemies, blindfiring through portals, hell even straight up medium range fights unless the Pistol dude has perfect aim).  But guess what...not a day goes by where I don't see some casual bitching that it LE SLOW 16 SHOT KILL AR IS SO WEAK IT NEEDS A BUFF (testing environment wasn't perfect but I know for a fact it kills in no greater than ten shots...) or PISTOL IS OP, NERF PISTOL AND MAKE AR STRONGER.  Because they won't be happy until you can literally just hold M1 and swipe at any range except maybe the furthest ranges to win fights.

Hey you want to play split with me man? It’s insanely fun. I’m enjoying myself.

  • Thonking (+0) 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Silos said:

I like autos with niche uses.

Just last night I was watching the VA LAN. I believe it was O4 or Nacho who had camo rockets on Prisoner on the bottom floor by back wall, Mudbone walked down a ramp with his AR out while Devilman was about to spawn. This spawned Devilman up one floor while Mudbone lit up the camo player with the AR. The rocket player could either kill Devilman off spawn, giving Mudbone enough time to kill camo rockets, or kill Mudbone leaving Devilman time to finish off camo rockets with a pistol.

This was a super niche situation, and I thought it was cool the way it played out.

Maybe we have enough variations of weapons where we can all get roughly what we want. Let's say casual matchmaking is roughly H5 AR and H1 pistol. Competitive matchmaking is H1 AR (in the form of an SMG) and H1 pistol.

Obviously these can be changed around. Maybe everyone decides we would rather just remove autos from competitive play completely despite niche uses. Maybe the H5 AR is too weak with the H1 pistol. Point is, instead of "We have AR, PR, storm rifle, SMG, and suppressor and they all kill fast at close range", perhaps it's possible to create a little more nuance and have "AR kills fast at close range, PR stuns you, SMG will definitely hit people but you might not do a lot of damage, storm rifle drains shields very fast, suppressor is great against vehicles". Does anybody lose in this scenario assuming weapons are removed if they're not working out?

No I wouldn’t say so, but the casuals and new players won’t be delighted to find their starting weapon which is an auto is utter crap, and only useful in niche circumstances. Most people I’ve realized assume the weapon they spawn with(primary gun I’ll add) is the strong weapon were meant to use. Perhaps halo should spawn us EVERY TIME with the precision weapon than the auto. I’m not the biggest fan myself of guns being useful only in niche styles. I didn’t mind h5s earlier weapon balance, I honestly felt the pistol just needed to be 4sk and everything would of been fine. The other weapons would still be useful to grab because they’re easier to aim with, but my pistol/starting tool would still be super good via TTK/damage. It also would please the lesser skilled players. 

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Ramirez77 said:

I want automatics that are well designed, filling valid niches in both casual and competitive play.

Don't think it's happening with comp play, lol. The inherent nature of autos lends themselves to being dumb, pretty skilless bullet hoses by design, and personally, I don't really see a way of getting past it in a competitively acceptable manner. At best, I think it'd be cool to have them work as anti-OS/camo weapons. Maybe have them only work against those things, but otherwise? Just do the sick HCS thing and remove them all.

  • Like (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Don't think it's happening with comp play, lol. The inherent nature of autos lends themselves to being dumb, pretty skilless bullet hoses by design, and personally, I don't really see a way of getting past it in a competitively acceptable manner. At best, I think it'd be cool to have them work as anti-OS/camo weapons. Maybe have them only work against those things, but otherwise? Just do the sick HCS thing and remove them all.

 I have had the same thoughts in the past regarding autos being used to counter OS/Camo, much like how people use the AR in CE to reveal camo'd players, I think the SMGs bullet hose like nature would be a good fit for a counter-camo weapon, and the Plasma Rifle's ability to strip shields for a counter-OS weapon. I also like the thought of certain weapons being compatible with certain power-ups, like Sword-Camo or SupressedSMG-Camo etc. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.