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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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@My Namez BEAST

People can like all the social, casual, Jenga zombies adventure whatever that they want. We all play "casual" games to just relax, that's nothing new or wrong.  I mean shit most of my all time favorite games are adventure games and JRPGs.

But if you get an ego over it and pretend it's anything but a casual experience...and brag over being a 1337 champion at it when you damn well know its silly, easy and dumbed down...and argue that your losses at it were undeserved because perfectly fair thing is "unfair"...thats when it gets pathetic. (Obviously excluding valid criticisms of genuinely terrible mechanics).

Saying you were cheated of victory because BR starts aren't fair and you're superior AR skillz didnt get a chance to shine...is just absurdity.  You got outplayed by someone better in a more skillful game, have humility, don't blame the settings which are perfectly fine.

Like I enjoy occasionally  pubstomping in Realm Royale but I'm not going to delude myself into believing it's some ultra high skillgap, hardcore game and that I'm special for being good at it when neither of those things are true.

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4 minutes ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Clan raids are the peak of competitive Halo

I raise you 12 layer sweatsquads in Warzone with callouts.

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12 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Cool idea. I wouldn’t accelerate time, as that would fuck up weapon cycles, but lopping off X amount of remaining time when someone quits is a great idea. Slayer only, social only, though.

 

You're right, of course it should cut down the timer instead of accelerating, forgot about power weapon cycles.

 

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But the core of the issue continues to be a lack of a vote to forfeit option. And auto-kick idlers. This shit neeeeeeds to happen. The time idea would just be a garnish.

Oh for sure. We first need afk booting and a forfeit option, either via vote or have a soft forfeit so the remaining players can quit without punishment (plase actually tell this to the player though, H5 also has this and most of the people playing have no idea). If we had a solid progression system that harshly punishes quitting and afking I think that would help a lot. People didn't quit this much in OG H3. The quit bans have already helped a ton but it's stupid people get punished for quitting a 1v4.

I also hope the progression system and Reach give us a healthy population boost so we can finally have solid party matching without insane queue times and laggy games.

 

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12 hours ago, TeeJaY said:

How would you guys feel about a simple wall jump in Halo? Could be used for map traversal or to enhance someone's strafe. 

I would take it over clamber/thruster anytime. I think it would possibly even enhance Halo gameplay without messing up the core. Given it doesn't push any animation and you can shoot while performing it.

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34 minutes ago, Basu said:

The quit bans have already helped a ton but it's stupid people get punished for quitting a 1v4.

I may be wrong but didn't they change it so if half your team has already quit, then you quitting doesn't result in a ban? I haven't played a 4v4 in forever but I thought I saw that somewhere recently.

That doesn't necessarily fix the overall issue because (when I played) I found myself playing with more AFKs then actual quitters. I'm in agreement with the forefit option, but then again if half of my team is AFK then a forefit option won't do anything anyway bec those players will never get a vote in, and any game I've played with a forefit basically takes any non-vote as a no.

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7 hours ago, Shekkles said:

want to agree with you on that one because I hate AR starts lol.

However, I feel that some people want to level the playing field down to their level so they can "prove they're good" in a "fair game". I have literally encountered this exact attitude. We had a Halo 3 2v2 tournament at TAFE (College for you USAnians) and I set it to MLG rules. This guy was absolutely furious when he lost the first match because the "game wasn't fair" and my team mate and I "cheated because the settings are wrong" and that "The BR is a pickup and makes the game unfair".

He genuinely thought being able to shoot at people from medium range off spawn was unfair. To that end, I agreed to a 2v2 AR starts. You can imagine what happened: the game snowballed because my mate and I got BR's early on and just destroy poor mate AR fan. Side note: He ran for the shotgun over the rocket launder/OS/Sniper on High Ground every game.

Then he said all BRs should be removed.

He genuinely thought that if the game was dumbed down to his level, he would succeed. I can't really argue with that either. If it was AR's only it'd be a hell of a lot more "even". I think a lot of people don't like getting dumped on and instead of self reflection on how they can improve, they want the game dumbed down instead. This still means they want to get better, just by removing other peoples power instead of increasing their own.

I’ve always felt that halo 4 has the best weapon sandbox. It has strong autos so the people who are “bad, or refuse to get “better” are still able to do good but at the same time, we have precision weapons that are better  as well. Perhaps I’d say this about h5, but the wonky aiming(especially on precision weapons) prevents me from saying anything. And I also disagree with the statement we all deal with it, simply because playing with a level head is a way to do good, and if you can’t keep yourself happy or non frustrated it makes playing the game worse. 

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

I’ve always felt that halo 4 has the best weapon sandbox. "It has strong autos so the people who are “bad, or refuse to get “better” are still able to do good " but at the same time, we have precision weapons that are better  as well. Perhaps I’d say this about h5, but the wonky aiming(especially on precision weapons) prevents me from saying anything. And I also disagree with the statement we all deal with it, simply because playing with a level head is a way to do good, and if you can’t keep yourself happy or non frustrated it makes playing the game worse. 

Why in the world would you consider this a good thing?

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1 hour ago, Arlong said:

I’ve always felt that halo 4 has the best weapon sandbox. It has strong autos so the people who are “bad, or refuse to get “better” are still able to do good but at the same time, we have precision weapons that are better  as well. Perhaps I’d say this about h5, but the wonky aiming(especially on precision weapons) prevents me from saying anything. And I also disagree with the statement we all deal with it, simply because playing with a level head is a way to do good, and if you can’t keep yourself happy or non frustrated it makes playing the game worse. 

When you say weapon sandbox, are you specifically thinking the balance between autos and precision weapons or are you thinking everything?

Between the easy snipers, boltshot, SAW, ability to start with a plasma pistol, binary rifle in general, I have plenty of issues with the Halo 4 sandbox. I barely remember autos in the game though. If the precision rifles were harder to use in Halo 4, do you think the autos would become overpowered?

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13 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

...The sandbox should never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, EVER be designed around different skill levels. 

That's what ranks are for. 

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly: Doesn't CE do exactly this? Complete noobs will use the AR and can do decently with it because it's not a useless POS like the H2/3/Reach starting automatic, assuming they're matching opponents of similar skill of course. Then with increasing skill they start to use the pistol and get better and better with it, the AR moves from a crutch CQC weapon to a more niche weapon. IMO that is a perfect balance for the starting automatic.

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3 hours ago, Basu said:

Unless I'm not understanding this correctly: Doesn't CE do exactly this? Complete noobs will use the AR and can do decently with it because it's not a useless POS like the H2/3/Reach starting automatic, assuming they're matching opponents of similar skill of course. Then with increasing skill they start to use the pistol and get better and better with it, the AR moves from a crutch CQC weapon to a more niche weapon. IMO that is a perfect balance for the starting automatic.

I don't think we're necessarily factoring "people who literally don't understand how the game works" into the equation. Noobs use the AR because they think it's what you're supposed  to. We're also getting into the fact that gameplay at the polar bottom end of the spectrum is not what we should be paying attention to because 1) very, very few people actually exist in that demographic, and 2) game balance means almost nothing at that level because they won't be able to tell the difference. Even a small step up from that realm brings you into somewhat cohesive gameplay where each weapon is used in its intended niche. 

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21 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I don't think we're necessarily factoring "people who literally don't understand how the game works" into the equation. Noobs use the AR because they think it's what you're supposed. We're also getting into the fact that gameplay at the polar bottom end of the spectrum is not what we should be paying attention to because 1) very, very few people actually exist in that demographic, and 2) game balance means almost nothing at that level because they won't be able to tell the difference. Even a small step up from that realm brings you into somewhat cohesive gameplay where each weapon is used in its intended niche. 

Hmm, given the fact there are still AR start supporters after all these years and the many casual gamers I know who will always switch to the AR in H3/Reach I don't think this is quite as much of a non-issues as you make it seem here. Keep in mind that in the days of CoD, TF, Apex, Battlefield etc. Halo  a mechanically very challenging game for the majority of gamers.

Of course the sandbox shouldn't actively and fully cater towards those people (*ahem* Halo 4/5) but as long as the auto is beaten by the precision weapon by any decent player I don't see a problem with it.

 

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1 minute ago, Basu said:

Hmm, given the fact there are still AR start supporters after all these years and the many casual gamers I know who will always switch to the AR in H3/Reach I don't think this is quite as much of a non-issues as you make it seem here. Keep in mind that in the days of CoD, TF, Apex, Battlefield etc. Halo  a mechanically very challenging game for the majority of gamers.

Of course the sandbox shouldn't actively and fully cater towards those people (*ahem* Halo 4/5) but as long as the auto is beaten by the precision weapon by any decent player I don't see a problem with it.

 

You're making the mistake in assuming that the spray weapon being quote/unquote "easier" means that it will scale improperly as you go down the skill ladder. You have to consistently track a person's center mass to get the benefit of the spray weapon in terms of its kill power relative to the utility weapon (disparate levels of aim assist is another matter). Between two relatively thumbless people and at a range fully favorable to the spray weapon, the utility weapon should still win the majority of the time. It would be an egregious error to bump up the power of the spray weapon to try to compensate for any perceived imbalances in the sandbox due to skill level. 

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24 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

You're making the mistake in assuming that the spray weapon being quote/unquote "easier" means that it will scale improperly as you go down the skill ladder. You have to consistently track a person's center mass to get the benefit of the spray weapon in terms of its kill power relative to the utility weapon (disparate levels of aim assist is another matter). Between two relatively thumbless people and at a range fully favorable to the spray weapon, the utility weapon should still win the majority of the time. It would be an egregious error to bump up the power of the spray weapon to try to compensate for any perceived imbalances in the sandbox due to skill level. 

With the ludicrous bullet magnetism that autos traditionally have I'd say that at low levels it will definitely beat the precision weapon especially if the precision user can't get the final headshot. I doubt it's a linear scale but I'd bet there's a pretty close inverse relationship between skill and "auto over precision use".

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1 minute ago, Basu said:

With the ludicrous bullet magnetism that autos traditionally have I'd say that at low levels it will definitely beat the precision weapon especially if the precision user can't get the final headshot. I doubt it's a linear scale but I'd bet there's a pretty close inverse relationship between skill and "auto over precision use".

I don't think it's a difference in effectiveness, I think it's a difference in comfort/gratification. A noob likes when more of their shots hit, thus they'll gravitate toward a weapon that spews out bullets even if that weapon is less effective by definition. I mean, our hypothetical noob probably just holds + R-trigger off spawn and doesn't know what strafing means, he's likely less concerned with being effective and more concerned with feeling like he's effective.

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17 hours ago, TeeJaY said:

How would you guys feel about a simple wall jump in Halo? Could be used for map traversal or to enhance someone's strafe. 

It might be neat if you could chain it with other actions to maintain player momentum.

Of course, there would need to be ways to build player momentum in the first place.

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I think wall jump could be cool but I also feel like its only cool in the sense of traditional map design. I believe they would just go about designing nearly every jump on the map for the wall jump so that rather than being an interesting new avenue of mobility it would just be a requirement to move about the map used in place of the traditional jump rather than in addition to. I do think it could replace thrust as an interesting mechanic in the middle of gun fights. The 343 doubt in me says you wouldn't be able to shoot while doing a wall jump just because of how much they love animation locks that prevent you from shooting lately.

Basically cool idea that I have no faith in being implemented well

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5 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

I think wall jump could be cool but I also feel like its only cool in the sense of traditional map design. I believe they would just go about designing nearly every jump on the map for the wall jump so that rather than being an interesting new avenue of mobility it would just be a requirement to move about the map. I do think it could replace thrust as an interesting mechanic in the middle of gun fights. The 343 doubt in me says you wouldn't be able to shoot while doing a wall jump just because of how much they love animation locks that prevent you from shooting lately.

Basically cool idea that I have no faith in being implemented well

This is basically my fear. 343 would find a way to make it obnoxious.

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17 hours ago, HeX Reapers said:

Image result for cockroach gif

this is actually me looking down at you RIGHT NOW

hahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

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How about having no wall jump, thrust, clamber, or sprint so we can get OG Halo movement again? Does this sound too far-fetched?

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5 minutes ago, Darkomantis said:

How about having no wall jump, thrust, clamber, or sprint so we can get OG Halo movement again? Does this sound too far-fetched?

Weren't you just complaining about "ancient grizzly" Halo opinions 

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45 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Weren't you just complaining about "ancient grizzly" Halo opinions 

Where? I don't know what you're talking about as I never complained about " "ancient grizzly" Halo opinions ".

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You could just make a “Bounce Pad” or whatever forge object so map designers can limit wall jump to locations they choose.  Or only certain materials can be wall jumped off of.

If wall jump was universal, I feel like Halo could lose that close quarter verticality that is part of its charm.  If players can jump higher, then ceilings need to be higher, which means taller maps.  It would be awkward to always be bouncing your head off the ceiling if they didn’t make ceilings higher.  I could definitely see its use, like a guardian gold jump up but I’m not sure what the ramifications on map design would be if wall jump was a base trait.

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5 minutes ago, Darkomantis said:

Where? I don't know what you're talking about as I never complained about " "ancient grizzly" Halo opinions ".

 

On 5/9/2019 at 4:01 PM, Darkomantis said:

Button Combos are detrimental due to it causing inconsistency in gameplay and breaking the weapon sandbox and balance. It's better to streamline the weapon sandbox/gameplay than make parts of the game redundant. It's fine to add it to H2/H1 to appease the Ancient Grizzlys but it shouldn't be in any future games.

Everyone in this place be losing it 

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