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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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2 hours ago, Cursed Lemon said:

That means you either have to deal with not being able to aim while performing them, switching your button config to something potentially undesirable, or having to do some crazy carpal tunnel-ass shit like clawing. It would be far more intuitive to map the combo buttons to the bumpers for example. 

Or get a controller with paddles 

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If the BXR/BXB weren't so mechanically easy I probably wouldn't see them as so cheap. The only reason you'll ever fail at those is not because it's difficult, but because of H2's dice roll melee system.

I have no issue with the double shot. 

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12 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

Ya'll boys got any better arguments?  

Argument...for...what? 

As long as the default controller for the console doesn't have paddles, the button mapping and feature set should reflect that. 

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10 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Or get a controller with paddles 

It's so nice of you to offer to throw 150 smackers my way to buy a controller for a game I barely play, my Venmo is [email protected] 

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10 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

It's so nice of you to offer to throw 150 smackers my way to buy a controller for a game I barely play, my Venmo is [email protected] 

I didn't say you specifically. If someone cares about Halo enough to play competitively and get to a high rank where button combos are necessary to win, and they don't want to lost control of their aiming, and/or if they play other games to justify the use of paddles and an elite controller purchase, then it's an option. Or you can just deal with it. 

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Just now, JordanB said:

I didn't say you specifically. If someone cares about Halo enough to play competitively and get to a high rank where button combos are necessary to win, and they don't want to lost control of their aiming, and/or if they play other games to justify the use of paddles and an elite controller purchase, then it's an option. Or you can just deal with it. 

Okay, but we're talking about the design of the game. If you're going to add button combos to the game, don't you think it'd be a good idea for them to be feasible out of the box? 

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28 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

That all sounds well and nice, but that's not reality is it?  CE and H2 are played a certain way and 343 will never, ever include button combos in Halo.


 

I'm just throwing out a hypothetical. If Halo Infinite played like your dream version of Halo 2, but the changes I mentioned were included, would you think it's better, about the same, or worse?

For me, if Halo 1 made the changes I mentioned I think it would be for the better. I don't feel strongly enough about it to think Halo 1 is broken or anything, but I do think removing those extra button pushes make the game accessible to more people without lowering the skill gap in a meaningful way. I feel Halo 2 wouldn't be worse either (with the exception of the double shot) but I'm not nearly as familiar with Halo 2 to have a solid opinion either way.

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3 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Okay, but we're talking about the design of the game. If you're going to add button combos to the game, don't you think it'd be a good idea for them to be feasible out of the box? 

So button map it. If you want to BXB, put B to RB and X to LB. So now it's RB,LB,RB. BXR is now RB,LB,R. Maybe not all button combinations can work this way, but at least you can somewhat adjust to them.

Yea it can be a pain to have to change your button mapping just for Halo then, but I'd argue that's on the fault of Microsoft (for not allowing you to have easily switchable button-mapping profiles like the Elite controller does), or 343 for not having in-game button mapping. I don't know if doing something like that in-game is too hard for devs to use so they just create presets, or if it just isn't done because we've never had it.

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Just now, JordanB said:

Yea it can be a pain to have to change your button mapping just for Halo then, but I'd argue that's on the fault of Microsoft (for not allowing you to have easily switchable button-mapping profiles like the Elite controller does), or 343 for not having in-game button mapping. 

Well of course it's their fault. It's 343soft. 

That doesn't erase the fact that if we assume left and right triggers are reserved for grenades and gunfire, then you only have two buttons available to you that don't involve you lifting your thumb off the aiming stick - two buttons that are very popularly mapped to jumping and meleeing in this day and age. We're talking about a hypothetical game that does not have button mapping, has button combos, and does not have standard controllers with paddles. 

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5 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Well of course it's their fault. It's 343soft. 

That doesn't erase the fact that if we assume left and right triggers are reserved for grenades and gunfire, then you only have two buttons available to you that don't involve you lifting your thumb off the aiming stick - two buttons that are very popularly mapped to jumping and meleeing in this day and age. We're talking about a hypothetical game that does not have button mapping, has button combos, and does not have standard controllers with paddles. 

Well I'd guess the 3rd will never happen due to cost reasons. We don't really know 1 or 2 although 343 hasn't given us any indication that we would ever get button combos again. If we got complete control of our buttons maybe you can map left stick to either jump/melee/reload to free up one more button, if we don't get sprint. If we only have the two buttons to play with for button combos then they might not be worth having at all. But with how little we know about the game this discussion can only go so far.

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The irony of this discussion is that button combos would be a way for Halo to solidly differentiate itself from the current shooter gamut and still maintain core Halo values + a competitive edge. 

Which is exactly why it will never be implemented, because the Halo dev process has literally never made sense. 

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Hey guys, back from counseling

 

The lady said I couldn't be helped

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I'm not a huge fan of button combos outside of stuff like YY reload canceling, I like BLB though because it's 1) intuitive and 2) has a an obvious drawback with the nade toss. It's hard to pull off efficiently without getting yourself into trouble and dying to the nade.

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Button Combos are detrimental due to it causing inconsistency in gameplay and breaking the weapon sandbox and balance. It's better to streamline the weapon sandbox/gameplay than make parts of the game redundant. It's fine to add it to H2/H1 to appease the Ancient Grizzlys but it shouldn't be in any future games.

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6 minutes ago, Darkomantis said:

Button Combos are detrimental due to it causing inconsistency in gameplay and breaking the weapon sandbox and balance. It's better to streamline the weapon sandbox/gameplay than make parts of the game redundant. It's fine to add it to H2/H1 to appease the Ancient Grizzlys but it shouldn't be in any future games.

I'd say killtime related combos definitely are, and are not gucci to have. Stuff like backpack reloading and the like are "finer", though. As they get rid of redundant animations.

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After playing yet another snoozefest with 3 quitters and 2 afks I came up with a new idea: Every time someone quits, the game timer accelerates by let's say 50%. So 2 quitters, the game is now over twice as fast. Would help both parties quickly end the match. Thoughts?

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

After playing yet another snoozefest with 3 quitters and 2 afks I came up with a new idea: Every time someone quits, the game timer accelerates by let's say 50%. So 2 quitters, the game is now over twice as fast. Would help both parties quickly end the match. Thoughts?

I think there's a lot of potential in that, good idea.  Probably should decrease appropriate to the loss of team size.  1 man drops out of a 4 man team in a 4v4 = 25% time reduction.  1 man out of a 2v2 = 50% time reduction, something like that.  Strictly social obviously.

And obviously this could be used to cheese possibly, but. I think there's potential there.

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Cool idea. I wouldn’t accelerate time, as that would fuck up weapon cycles, but lopping off X amount of remaining time when someone quits is a great idea. Slayer only, social only, though.

But the core of the issue continues to be a lack of a vote to forfeit option. And auto-kick idlers. This shit neeeeeeds to happen. The time idea would just be a garnish.

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7 hours ago, Silos said:

For most of the button combos we've seen so far, can we remove some of the button pushes and still have it be cool or does removing the "extra" button pushes make the button combos worse?

I think there is some mechanical skill involved in pulling off the button combos so I would be against making them any easier to perform.  Plus, the risk/reward is built in currently.  Fuck up the timing and you cancel your BXR melee.  Fuck up the timing and you are stuck reloading instead of double shotting.  What you describe seems like there is no way to mess up the combo so there can’t be any punishment for messing up the combo.

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H1 ranked playlist is too dependent on connection in close games to not give me an ulcer when I play it. H2 hit reg and melees are a joke and you can’t find a game. H2A can’t find a game. I don’t enjoy H3. H4 isn’t ranked. Social has no progression system.

A progression system would single handedly increase my playtime about 1000%.

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How would you guys feel about a simple wall jump in Halo? Could be used for map traversal or to enhance someone's strafe. 

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37 minutes ago, Boyo said:

I think there is some mechanical skill involved in pulling off the button combos so I would be against making them any easier to perform.  Plus, the risk/reward is built in currently.  Fuck up the timing and you cancel your BXR melee.  Fuck up the timing and you are stuck reloading instead of double shotting.  What you describe seems like there is no way to mess up the combo so there can’t be any punishment for messing up the combo.

If you remove the X part, you could still cancel your melee early if you shot too soon. I may not have made that clear enough in my original post. Double shot I agree couldn't really be changed to be easier without ruining the double shot.

I feel the cool part of landing a BXR is hitting the shot after the melee lunge has taken place. Not the button press inbetween the melee and shot, which is why I feel like the X could be removed.

If instead of BXR let's say it's BYYR, would that be better? I don't want to get ridiculous and say "What if it was BYXYYXBR", but I'm curious what the sweet spot is for how many buttons for a button combo before it's too much. My suggestions changed three button combos to two, is changing three button combos to four better or is that too much and three is the perfect sweet spot?

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I kinda like the idea of treating reload as the “linking” button if you have a full clip. I think the game should embrace that. Maybe make your weapon flash (or some other visual indicator) when you can “link” actions.

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4 hours ago, Xandrith said:

Hey guys, back from counseling

 

The lady said I couldn't be helped

hahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

I kinda like the idea of treating reload as the “linking” button if you have a full clip. I think the game should embrace that. Maybe make your weapon flash (or some other visual indicator) when you can “link” actions.

Really cool idea as well, probably could make more organic than flashing the weapon. I know I've mentioned before but a modern double shot would be awesome feedback if it heated the barrel red on a successful double shot followed by a nice bullet casing deposit sound like the m1 grande clink. Failed attempts would trigger a jamming sound or something.

 

Lois of awesome potential. 

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