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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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5 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I can understand the bullet sway but why is leading a form of randomness? 

Neither are random. Neither are inconsistent. At all.

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Just now, Arlong said:

I can understand the bullet sway but why is leading a form of randomness? 

Think about it, as the mechanic is implemented currently, if you lead a target and they simply stop moving or turn another direction, you'll literally miss, regardless of your aim skill, or the like, as you have no feedback until your bullet hits. Someone could realistically outwalk your bullet, and you can't account for it until it happens, and as such it's out of your control. Couple this with a strafe, jumping, etc in a real game and any long range engagement will turn into a crapshoot. 

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13 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I think it was @Gobias that articulated it really well a while back. But basically the goal is to reduce TTK, but also make misses matter. The RoF would need to be REALLY fast for a 5sk to have a .9s TTK, to the point where a missed shot wouldn’t hold much weight.

You can listen to rates of fire by doing the following:

1 / [TTK / (STK - 1)] * 60 = rpm

Plug in for Time To Kill and Shots To Kill then google the resulting number followed by bpm.

 

So for a [email protected], we would get ~267 rpm

 

 

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So for the millionth frickin time bullet sway and lead are NOT random. If I fire my gun while moving x speed in x direction then my bullet will move Y speed in Y direction EVERY TIME. Not random. Same with lead. If my target is moving at X speed in X direction and my bullet travels at Y speed then I have to lead by D distance EVERY TIME. Not random. The only thing that is “random” that factors into projectile physics is enemy movement which is the kind of randomness you want in video games. It’s why playing against people is a whole lot more fun than fighting against bots. The kind of randomness that makes multiplayer worth playing in the first place.

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It’s fair to not enjoy projectile shooting. It is not fair to blame it on randomness.

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Halo 1's pistol without it's bullet spread is pretty consistent and accurate. Here's proof that Halo 1's pistol without it's bullet spread is pretty consistent and accurate.

 

Not being able to acknowlede the proof that Halo 1's pistol without it's bullet spread is pretty consistent and accurate because you're an ideologue that is bias against projectile weapons will most likely result in you being ignored and ostracized. People that are unwilling to yield themselves to reason and evidence aren't worth having conversations/arguments with and should probably be ignored and ostracized.

 

If you're going to claim that Halo 1 NHE 1.0's pistol is still inconsistent and inaccurate even though the spread from the pistol was removed then the burden is on you to prove it.
 

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16 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Then don't lie to me, lmao.

 

8 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Think about it, as the mechanic is implemented currently, if you lead a target and they simply stop moving or turn another direction, you'll literally miss, regardless of your aim skill, or the like, as you have no feedback until your bullet hits. Someone could realistically outwalk your bullet, and you can't account for it until it happens, and as such it's out of your control. Couple this with a strafe, jumping, etc in a real game and any long range engagement will turn into a crapshoot. 

Sooo is this actually a bad thing? I may not have hit my target because he did something human, but did my bullet go where I shot at? If that’s the case then it’s consistent. You’re arguing the fact your reticules on this person and your bullets don’t hit because they moved a direction, so therefore inconsistent. That shouldn’t be considered inconsistent. 

9 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Neither are random. Neither are inconsistent. At all.

I don’t think my movement should affect my bullets in a halo game thank you. Weapon sway is a legitimate thing but it’s not something I’m in favor of, but I do like leading.

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Just saying, the who "leading is random" makes it sound like you have to lead a massive amount. Which you don't. And if that was your argument people use slow moving projectiles against fast moving targets a lot. Imagine a fast moving projectile hitting a slow moving target ala CE. 

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2 minutes ago, Arlong said:

 

I don’t think my movement should affect my bullets in a halo game thank you. 

And that’s a perfectly valid opinion. I enjoy accounting for it, in exchange for a really powerful gun when wielded correctly.

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1 minute ago, Arlong said:

Sooo is this actually a bad thing? I may not have hit my target because he did something human, but did my bullet go where I shot at? If that’s the case then it’s consistent. You’re arguing the fact your reticules on this person and your bullets don’t hit because they moved a direction, so therefore inconsistent. That shouldn’t be considered inconsistent. 

Except... That is inconsistency. My reticle was on a person through my raw aim skill, and an element I couldn't ever realistically account for resulted in a miss. Something I can't improve on, or predict, and can only react to. It's by definition inconsistent. Yes, it's a bad thing to me.

 

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16 minutes ago, Arlong said:

I don’t think my movement should affect my bullets in a halo game thank you. Weapon sway is a legitimate thing but it’s not something I’m in favor of, but I do like leading.

I think you are confusing movement having an effect on the accuracy of the shot (random spread), which is how most games that have accuracy penalties to movement work, for movement having an effect on the bullet at all. Bullet sway is still 100% consistent it just requires you to take your own movement into account just like you have to account for your targets movement with projectile bullets.  If you want projectile bullets you should want bullet sway to be a thing. Trust me on this.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

But can you consistently do it.

A player can develop a high degree of consistency with it, yes. See Legend, Ogre 2, Patch, Gintron, Killer N,  Jownz, etc...

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Players should also have to account for the coriolis effect while aiming.

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11 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Except... That is inconsistency. My reticle was on a person through my raw aim skill, and an element I couldn't ever realistically account for resulted in a miss. Something I can't improve on, or predict, and can only react to. It's by definition inconsistent. Yes, it's a bad thing to me.

 

This is literally thrust. 

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Most people can’t consistently hit free throws but free throws are perfectly consistent. I think we might just be playing word games at this point.

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Just now, Hard Way said:

A player can develop a high degree of consistency with it, yes. See Legend, Ogre 2, Patch, Gintron, Killer N,  Jownz, etc...

But can you 100% of the time predict enemy movement patterns? For sure, 100%.

4 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

This is literally thrust. 

Irrelevant, you're just deflecting to Halo 5. Defend the point I'm actually talking about.

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Why in the world would you want a situation in which a person could do it 100% of the time? 

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2 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Why in the world would you want a situation in which a person could do it 100% of the time? 

You're talking specifically on movement, right?

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5 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Look in sorry to disregard everything you said but you just stated that color preference isn't subjective. No offense like honestly I don't want to sound rude but there is no reason to ever argue with you on anything. If you genuinely believe that colors have objective truth. But yes thank you for saying that about the CE pistol as well. Because I know now that it's a waste of time to argue. Because you're soooooo far in the opposite direction of beliefs from me. 

I have to agree with you beast. that post was erroneous. there is literally zero way in hell ragnarok and valhalla are even that different to imply objectivity whatsoever. ragnarok literally follows the same basic structure. I actually like to sit and admire the art differences between the two styles and i was going to honestly say that ragnarok was subjectively inferior for having a limer green which i dont prefer and having muddier textures but this guy literally fucking goes 60 year old French Food critic from ratatouille mode on me. Big Yikes.

i will say one thing

its perfectly subjectively okay for him to believe that valhalla is objectively superior to ragnarok, but that's still just his subjective perspective. so LockOn, you're not right but you're not wrong but you're not right. have a piece of toast.

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9 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You're talking specifically on movement, right?

I'm talking about any singular element of combat related to landing shots on players. 

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Just now, Cursed Lemon said:

I'm talking about any singular element of combat related to landing shots on players. 

Is the opponent's strafe in the game one of those things?

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1: Someone "strafing"  out of your incoming bullets isn't possible, even for a bot, with Halo speed projectiles.

2: Explain to me why you're okay with some projectiles in rockets and grenades but not the utility weapon

3: Even if it were possible, that's not a bad thing. You're welcome to put your reticle on a player (or ahead of the player with projectile) but why should that guarantee damage? 

 

One of the biggest aspects that separates fighting games is how you break out of combos. In Killer Instinct just because they did the right attack you can instantly combo break on the first hit of the combo. In Mortal Kombat you literally can do nothing but sit there and get the shit beat out of you, that's it. It's ********. And the inability to react to anything is why that's true. Just like you're free to have the skill to land your shot the enemy should have the skill to know how to counter act it, that's literally why rockets aren't hitscan..because it would be mental if they were. I think there's a warzone variant that functions like that. Being able to dodge a shot is in no way a bad thing, it should be welcomed. 

 

Until you can answer those 3 questions you're never going to make progress on this debate

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34 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

But can you consistently do it.

Can you consistently run a mile in 10 minutes? No you can’t. Some days you’ll do it less or more. I understand liking consistenty but there’s consistency and unrealistic consistency and even in a video game(making sure you don’t bring that up) this should be accounted for. There’s a good chance if you lead your shot correctly it’ll hit your target because news flash bullets move faster than your opponent. As for weapon sway that’s just an entirely new world in a mobility based game like halo. Weapon sway exist in PUBG but it’s not effective in the way CE does it. There’s a reason game developers don’t make weapons like the h5 pistol because it’s consistency is it’s problem, it’s too good. You got people cross mapping people and now we get people whining about getting cross mapped so games usually do 2 things. Bloom or projectile shooting plus other factors like recoil or spread patterns(CS).

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