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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Not happening in any Halo by its design, lmao.

It's possible in H1, as long as one of them doesn't know where you are before the fight, which is common when you're outnumbered. As long as at least one is unaware before the fight starts, its quite a bit more feasible to take out two guys in H1 than any other Halo.

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3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Not happening in any Halo by its design, lmao.

Happens more so in CE than all the others at least. 

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11 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

It's possible in H1, as long as one of them doesn't know where you are before the fight, which is common when you're outnumbered. As long as at least one is unaware before the fight starts, its quite a bit more feasible to take out two guys in H1 than any other Halo.

Is there actual evidence to support this? In most halo games we simply grenade them then finish them off with 1 or 2 shots. I’m not trying to dispute your opinion, but that sounds sorta doubtful. I don’t know if it’s untrue or not, It’s just to me, that sounds like a bit of a stretch. 

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2 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Is there actual evidence to support this? In most halo games we simply grenade them then finish them off with 1 or 2 shots. I’m not trying to dispute your opinion, but that sounds sorta doubtful. I don’t know if it’s untrue or not, It’s just to me, that sounds like a bit of a stretch. 

you can put this to bed by just understanding that you can't nade places far away well where in ce you can literally just shoot. + it's not like you always have a nade. 

 

 

you can further prove it by knowing perfect kills in ce are .6s / .9s while h2/3+ is 1.5s / 2s kills, h5 is 1.2/1.5 + ce being 3 shots (rof is .3 for ce, so 6 shots takes .6s+.9s, while h3 takes 8 at .5s aka 3.5s). you're not going to kill someone in h2+ without taking any damage. They are going to be able to turn around and damage you 99.9% of the time. in ce, you can get 2 shots before they line up a shot on you and then easily miss that one shot. so now you're full shields going into battle #2. or even if he hits that shot on you, you're going into battle #2 requiring minimum 2 shots. If the other guy misses once, you have the opportunity to secure the 1v2.

 

 

then you can further prove it by realizing ce is not burst fire, so no sweeping. you have to be headshot perfect, you can't sweep like in h2/3/4/2a and like a little of h5. 

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1 minute ago, Riddler said:

you can put this to bed by just understanding that you can't nade places far away well where in ce you can literally just shoot. + it's not like you always have a nade. 

 

 

you can further prove it by knowing perfect kills in ce are .6s / .9s while h2/3+ is 1.5s / 2s kills, h5 is 1.2/1.5 + ce being 3 shots (rof is .3 for ce, so 6 shots takes .6s+.9s, while h3 takes 8 at .5s aka 3.5s). you're not going to kill someone in h2+ without taking any damage. They are going to be able to turn around and damage you 99.9% of the time. in ce, you can get 2 shots before they line up a shot on you and then easily miss that one shot. so now you're full shields going into battle #2. or even if he hits that shot on you, you're going into battle #2 requiring minimum 2 shots. If the other guy misses once, you have the opportunity to secure the 1v2.

 

 

then you can further prove it by realizing ce is not burst fire, so no sweeping. you have to be headshot perfect, you can't sweep like in h2/3/4/2a and like a little of h5. 

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Ok fair enough. Sweeping? 

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5 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Ok fair enough. Sweeping? 

so if someone is no shields, you can sweep across their body with the br. like you're gunna be aiming a little above left shoulder, then head, then right shoulder. so even if you were off a little to the left, the right shoulder aim is gunna hit the head. Alternatively, if you weren't aiming at the head when you fired, you have 2 shots in the burst to adjust your aim and put it on the head. You'll struggle to find a br lover on this thread. 

so in ce/reach/and most of h5, each shot is 1 chance for a headshot where in 2/3/4/2a, you get 3 chances for a headshot every shot. so if im no shields and you're full shields. You have 16 chances to hit me in the head once before I can land 4 shots on you. 

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3 minutes ago, Riddler said:

so if someone is no shields, you can sweep across their body with the br. like you're gunna be aiming a little above left shoulder, then head, then right shoulder. so even if you were off a little to the left, the right shoulder aim is gunna hit the head. You'll struggle to find a br lover on this thread. 

so in ce/reach/and most of h5, each shot is 1 chance for a headshot where in 2/3/4/2a, you get 3 chances for a headshot every shot. so if im no shields and you're full shields. You have 16 chances to hit me in the head once before I can land 4 shots on you. 

Ok I see. Tbh I’m still confused a little bit. Are you talking about the spread of the BR? 

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I just think more individual empowerment (through skillful shooting) is a net plus for Halo, both as a competitive game and a spectator sport. Team shooting would still be a thing, just not as necessary. Flanks would actually mean something in 4v4. 

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Just now, Arlong said:

Ok I see. Tbh I’m still confused a little bit. Are you talking about the spread of the BR? 

no... a br fires in bursts. it fires 12 bullets across 4 shots, or 3 bullets per shot. When you fire the br, the first bullet leaves the chamber frame 1, the 2nd bullet leaves frame 5, and the 3rd leaves frame 9. so on frame 1 you could be aiming left shoulder, frame 5 head, and frame 9 right shoulder. 

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@Arlong, you can be a lot sloppier with a burst fire weapon when you have a big advantage, since you don't have to be as accurate. You can get "partial credit" for each shot, and if you move your reticle during the burst, you can sweep across the head for an easier headshot. It's harder to choke when you have a health advantage. Does that make sense?

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15 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

@Arlong, you can be a lot sloppier with a burst fire weapon when you have a big advantage, since you don't have to be as accurate. You can get "partial credit" for each shot, and if you move your reticle during the burst, you can sweep across the head for an easier headshot. It's harder to choke when you have a health advantage. Does that make sense?

Much better.  

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31 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

I just think more individual empowerment (through skillful shooting) is a net plus for Halo, both as a competitive game and a spectator sport. Team shooting would still be a thing, just not as necessary. Flanks would actually mean something in 4v4. 

They still mean something in 4s. I seriously think you’re imagining in your head that this stuff doesn’t happen, like a lot. 

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6 hours ago, Arlong said:

You winning against numbers advantage because your gun killed them faster than they could react isn’t a representation of skill. 

You're right, it isn't a representation of skill. It's a representation of gunplay options that simply do not exist in teamshot Halo. Having the potential to quickly kill an unaware opponent is far better than always defaulting to an extended gunfight. Options and potentials are what make CE magnum duels far more interesting than later Halos shallow teamshot metas.

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14 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Maybe he thinks TSK's are common.

it actually blows my mind hearing how different peoples experience is with the game. I get having different opinions and I know MCC is a terrible port of CE but I feel like people are playing a completely different version of the game. I can't blame people for not wanting to learn the game in depth when they have to play a broken version though

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14 hours ago, Hard Way said:

It's possible in H1, as long as one of them doesn't know where you are before the fight, which is common when you're outnumbered. As long as at least one is unaware before the fight starts, its quite a bit more feasible to take out two guys in H1 than any other Halo.

This can happen in so many, if not every other Halo, though. Especially if you just play passive

However, my entire point on this wasn't just catching someone off guard while fighting another. It was on fully fighting multiple people. Which won't be happening in any Halo even CE, unless you have OS, which, shocker, is kinda cheesy, lol. Which circled back to my point that it's not you being more empowered in CE. It's just a matter of the speed and flow of the game. And that most of the things "taking" this ability away more so aren't your weapon's power, but things like thrust. Which enable escape and bait and switching.

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33 minutes ago, Teapot said:

it actually blows my mind hearing how different peoples experience is with the game. I get having different opinions and I know MCC is a terrible port of CE but I feel like people are playing a completely different version of the game. I can't blame people for not wanting to learn the game in depth when they have to play a broken version though

Maybe it’s a nostalgic thing. 

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23 hours ago, Arlong said:

Never played ce OG as I was a toddler when it came out(3 years old) so I never got the chance to live the days of OG Xbox Halo CE lans with random people and friends. Idk the differences in ce and mcc ce. It’s fair to note expecting good hit reg in a game that never saw the light of online(Xbc don’t count) to have quality hit reg.

 

23 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Maybe it’s a nostalgic thing. 

How could someone who never even played the OG version make this claim? It's well documented that the PC version is a complete botch job of the game and that's the version they used on MCC. That thread that was linked by BigShow is a great example of how things are broken down mathematically in terms of human reaction times, time to kills etc. I'd like to imagine that even without playing the game I could come across a thread like this and walk away with an understanding of just how different it is compared to the times in later halo games. It's not so much an opinionated piece as it is a look at how these times interact with each other.

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37 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Maybe it’s a nostalgic thing. 

I won't say there's not at least a little bit of nostalgia among some people praising the game. But I don't think that's all of it. I find it's the people who have played recently who describe a similar experience to me, and everybody else describes a different experience.

Like I have introduced the game to people who weren't alive when the original came out, people who only started with Halo 3, Reach, Halo 4, or Halo 5. I didn't like the game when I first played it in 2001 and only got into it a few years ago, and only really got into it about a year ago (worlds 2018 I played two games against Ogre 2 and Nakamura and based on that I wanted to dive deeper into the game).

All of these people describe the game in a similar fashion except for one Halo 3 fan I know who hates the game and feels his shots never connect. Everybody else talks about how hard shooting is but how quickly they can down somebody. They all have stories of completely trouncing another duo. They talk about the depth of the spawn system. How fast paced the game is.

Now some of them still have other favorites, specifically there's a massive Halo 5 fan in our group who still loves Halo 5 more than any other Halo, and that's completely fine. He likes the team shot of Halo 5, he likes the crazy movement, nothing wrong with that. But he still describes Halo 1 the same way as others describe the game here who play regularly. I think it's the people who only played back in the day or only played MCC who are describing it wrong.

Anyway, I gave you a short and sweet two paragraph answer yesterday regarding different Halo 1 matters, now it's my turn to bore you with stories. :simms:

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

This can happen in so many, if not every other Halo, though. Especially if you just play passive

However, my entire point on this wasn't just catching someone off guard while fighting another. It was on fully fighting multiple people. Which won't be happening in any Halo even CE, unless you have OS, which, shocker, is kinda cheesy, lol. Which circled back to my point that it's not you being more empowered in CE. It's just a matter of the speed and flow of the game. And that most of the things "taking" this ability away more so aren't your weapon's power, but things like thrust. Which enable escape and bait and switching.

You linked yourself using one of the easiest guns to get a perfect 4 shot with in an argument about being empowered as an individual. If someone on the other team had the H2 BR I highly doubt you'd have done that well cause the gun is piss easy to 4 shot with. It's not uncommon in CE to see people miss a lot in 2v1s and wind up losing. Sure it happens in other Halo games, but it happens more often in CE because people do miss more. 

 

Also look at that "free" rocket kill that kid got, oh wait he missed and died before he could shoot another. One of the risks of using rockets.

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8 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

You linked yourself using one of the easiest guns to get a perfect 4 shot with in an argument about being empowered as an individual. If someone on the other team had the H2 BR I highly doubt you'd have done that well cause the gun is piss easy to 4 shot with. It's not uncommon in CE to see people miss a lot in 2v1s and wind up losing. Sure it happens in other Halo games, but it happens more often in CE because people do miss more. 

 

Also look at that "free" rocket kill that kid got, oh wait he missed and died before he could shoot another. One of the risks of using rockets.

The clip was an example of being able to just catch people off guard to get multi kills, or even just a string of them, and how it wasn't exclusive to or more likely to occur in CE. Not about being empowered. That was entirely different, hence the two being separated by paragraph.

 

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

The clip was an example of being able to just catch people off guard to get multi kills, or even just a string of them, and how it wasn't exclusive to or more likely than it would be in CE. Not about being empowered. That was entirely different, hence the two being separated by paragraph.

 

Being more empowered does make catching people off guard more powerful though. The stronger one person is the more likely they are to put together multikills and strings of kills. If everyone has that potential yes, empowerment doesn't matter, but if the average and perfect TTK are wide enough then you increase the effectiveness of catching people off guard because if you hit your shots, etc. the other players can't react. H5's longer kill times, coupled with how close the average and perfect TTK is makes catching 2 people off guard still a very difficult fight to win in a vacuum. Yes nades exist, and one of them could be weak etc, but in a situation where you caught two full shielded opponents not looking at you with full shield and all you could do is shoot them, CE magnum gives you the best chance.  

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2 hours ago, Arlong said:

Maybe it’s a nostalgic thing. 

Context unclear. First time i played ce was 2012. I was basically an iceprincess 2.0 from 2007-2010 maybe more for a different reason I feel. I thought i was losing because of the power weapons. I had the best br in h3 along with a really good snipe but i would blame losses on rockets, os, camo, nades, shit i thought was cheesy or just bad teammates. i saw the light during the dark era of halo. 

 

 

Also @TheIcePrincess faster ttk is being more empowered lol. 

 

And @OG Nick the easiness of the gun is irrelevant in the debate. Like obv a snipe 1v2 is possible. But the clip used a gun that had the same kill time as the others which is what is important. And ofc there is the matter of scrubs vs gud kids debate. And some times shit just happens. We’ve all seen the out dmr in reach on pit at bridge. I do concur with you but the clip isnt ruined because its h5 br. 

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14 minutes ago, Riddler said:

Context unclear. First time i played ce was 2012. I was basically an iceprincess 2.0 from 2007-2010 maybe more for a different reason I feel. I thought i was losing because of the power weapons. I had the best br in h3 along with a really good snipe but i would blame losses on rockets, os, camo, nades, shit i thought was cheesy or just bad teammates. i saw the light during the dark era of halo. 

 

 

Also @TheIcePrincess faster ttk is being more empowered lol. 

 

And @OG Nick the easiness of the gun is irrelevant in the debate. Like obv a snipe 1v2 is possible. But the clip used a gun that had the same kill time as the others which is what is important. And ofc there is the matter of scrubs vs gud kids debate. And some times shit just happens. We’ve all seen the out dmr in reach on pit at bridge. I do concur with you but the clip isnt ruined because its h5 br. 

Ease of use is always important when talking 1v2's. If the average TTK is too close to the perfect TTK 1v2's just become more difficult, unless the TTK is really low. I never said it was impossible so stop bringing up the 1 clip anyone ever uses when talking about Reach DMR 1v(whatever number). 

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20:32 i say would count as a 1v2 (bottom screen is urs truly, its mislabeled). Its not you know the perfect example but it something that happens alot (of course id have to hit one more shot on the first person to get those 2 kills). You fight one battle then have to fight another lower shields. And because of the nature of faster ttk and single shot, it is more likely to win in ce than any other halo. 

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