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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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11 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Irrelevant. Just ask any informed player who has a head on their shoulders about why launch SMG starts are a terribad idea and shouldn't be entertained.

Okay, I just asked myself, since I used it a lot, had it used against me a lot, and I'm also the smartest person currently participating in the discussion, and here's what I came up with: 

The H5 SMG is the ONLY (non-power weapon) auto in the series that you can actually make a play with. On that basis, I wouldn't mind if it became the starting auto going forward*, instead of that role being filled by a dedicated noob rifle like the H3-present AR.

*Assuming, of course, that the starting utility is appropriately lethal (i.e. CE pistol) and not some worthless pea shooter like the H5 magnum. Literally anything would appear to be disproportionately powerful when it's up against that piece of shit.

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3 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Discord teenager goes REEEEEE when somebody kills him with a map pickup.

Are we done here? 

We were done the second you mentioned the smg as a positive. Keep spraying tho brother you'll get to gold one day. 

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Imagine being this triggered over the SMG.

My last post since this is all gonna be deleted anyway once Shekkles wakes up.

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I swear you guys assume everyone is mad all the time lmao I don't get it. Let's be normal for like 2 seconds here. The smg kills faster than the pistol. It's easier to use. It has a bigger reticle. It's RoF is less punishing for misses and has a big clip. It wasn't balanced at all and that's why it was nerfed. 

Are you really gonna sit here and say that it wasn't op in h5? After it statistically dominated basically everything in the game? And was widely criticized by pretty much every single pro player?

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2 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Okay, I just asked myself, since I used it a lot, had it used against me a lot, and I'm also the smartest person currently participating in the discussion, and here's what I came up with: 

The H5 SMG is one of the few (non-power weapon) autos in the series that you can actually make a play with. On that basis, I wouldn't mind if it became the starting auto going forward*, instead of that role being filled by a dedicated noob rifle like the H3-present AR.

*Assuming, of course, that the starting utility is appropriately lethal (i.e. CE pistol) and not some worthless pea shooter like the H5 magnum. Literally anything would appear to be disproportionately powerful when it's up against that piece of shit.

It would still remain an easy to melt with cheese machine, fam. Outright saying this. Even Breakout with map pickups more potent than the three shot pistol and long sightlines enabled it to melt. But frankly, I don't give a shit about making a starting auto for a comp shooter. It's a dumb hill to die on over a sole precision weapon.

Within the context of the argument too, you outright said you didn't mind dying to it as it was in Guardians specifically. Prior to the patch. Saying you could make plays with it. And thought it was one of the few decent things of the game. You can't bitch at me for all the controversial opinions I'd have, but then unironically have this opinion. The SMG was the worst within the context of this game alone. Always frustrating to die too, always cheese to use. Pretty detached from reality, if I do say so myself, lol.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I swear you guys assume everyone is mad all the time lmao I don't get it. Let's be normal for like 2 seconds here. The smg kills faster than the pistol. It's easier to use. It has a bigger reticle. It's RoF is less punishing for misses and has a big clip. It wasn't balanced at all and that's why it was nerfed. 

Are you really gonna sit here and say that it wasn't op in h5? After it statistically dominated basically everything in the game? And was widely criticized by pretty much every single pro player?

Ah yes, the all-important punish-ometer. I forgot that if a weapon scores poorly on that then it's not discord approved.

No, it wasn't OP in Halo 5. Everything else was just garbage. I'm not interested in what pro players think after "no bloom no skill" and the fact that almost all of them are benign non-personalities who just go with the popular flow while shilling for their donations and plane tickets.

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8 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Ah yes, the all-important punish-ometer. I forgot that if a weapon scores poorly on that then it's not discord approved.

No, it wasn't OP in Halo 5. Everything else was just garbage. I'm not interested in what pro players think after "no bloom no skill" and the fact that almost all of them are benign non-personalities who just go with the popular flow while shilling for their donations and plane tickets.

Read like a book 

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16 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It would still remain an easy to melt with cheese machine, fam. Outright saying this. Even Breakout with map pickups more potent than the three shot pistol and long sightlines enabled it to melt. But frankly, I don't give a shit about making a starting auto for a comp shooter. It's a dumb hill to die on over a sole precision weapon.

Within the context of the argument too, you outright said you didn't mind dying to it as it was in Guardians specifically. Prior to the patch. Saying you could make plays with it. And thought it was one of the few decent things of the game. You can't bitch at me for all the controversial opinions I'd have, but then unironically have this opinion. The SMG was the worst within the context of this game alone. Always frustrating to die too, always cheese to use. Pretty detached from reality, if I do say so myself, lol.

> Wants camo removed from Halo

> Wants vehicles removed from Halo

> Wants map pickups removed from Halo

"I can't take you seriously!"

See the source image

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1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> Wants camo removed from Halo

> Wants vehicles removed from Halo

> Wants map pickups removed from Halo

"I can't take you seriously!"

About what I expected. 

You lack substance. And a proper response.

Dis-a-ppointing. 

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1 hour ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Right here, therapy boi:

 

Thanks for verifying that she didn't say that and you made it up. Carry on with your well-adjusted adult tantrum about console FPS games.

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3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

About what I expected. 

You lack substance. And a proper response.

Dis-a-ppointing. 

Except I've already responded to every point you've attempted to make. The SMG "melts" because everything else in Halo 5 in garbage and incapable of responding effectively. It was far more satisfying to use than any AR and I didn't feel any frustration when dying to it. Your opinions on what constitutes "cheese" don't mean anything to me when you want camo, vehicles, and map pickups removed.

1 minute ago, arglactable said:

Thanks for verifying that she didn't say that and you made it up. Carry on with your well-adjusted adult tantrum about console FPS games.

Seek counseling.

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1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Except I've already responded to every point you've attempted to make. The SMG "melts" because everything else in Halo 5 in garbage and incapable of responding effectively. It was far more satisfying to use than any AR and I didn't feel any frustration when dying to it. Your opinions on what constitutes "cheese" don't mean anything to me when you want camo, vehicles, and map pickups removed.

You didn't. You just brought up past arguments based on a figure of speech that had no legitimate basis in what I said and avoided my entire spiel. 

In addition, satisfaction and frustration are subjective. No bearing on it to me. 

But it really is like you never played Halo 5, though. Because it wasn't a matter of everything else sucking, the SMG just dominated its specific niche, like the BR and DMR did. It was still a melt machine even when the BR could kill you without someone dead-ass aiming at you. Or even when the DMR had a rapid ass RoF and is a 2 shot beat down.

It would still be an ass starting weapon. Automatics THAT powerful, even WITH a 3 shot pistol for example would still suck shit. They always do. 

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3 hours ago, Riddler said:

if you're getting consistent 3sk, you aren't going to get the feedback you're aiming wrong. The ce pistol is designed in a way to make it difficult for one to hit 3sks, no amount of feedback would change that. If you watch CE it's not uncommon to see people miss 5 in a row then hit 4-5 in a row because they adjusted their aim to match strafe/lag accordingly. there aren't montages of that stuff, ur best bet is to just watch legend 

 

The point I’m trying to drive home is that these tiny bullet sparks don’t appear to significantly improve accuracy over the course of these matches. It hasn’t been proven to me that this can build effective muscle memory for players to better lead their shots, because the pattern is not nearly as apparent as you make it out to be. There could be a number of reasons why these pros suddenly manage to get back on target after repeatedly missing their shots, including Cursed Lemon’s previous comment about how players “get into a ‘zone’ where they're consistently doming people,” and not because of sheer skill. He even admits the magnum’s spread is “effectively the same” as MCC, which is already a red flag. This is why your argument that it is “designed in a way to make it difficult for one to hit 3sks” is misleading at best; the mechanics that make the magnum hard to get efficient kills with are almost random in practice and can’t be consistently mitigated, unlike CS’s static spray patterns. 

Back to my original point, if the concept of leading your targets and the added difficulty that bullet sway adds to projectiles was so intuitive, why are there no videos that analyze this? I’ve seen Hard Way’s basic explanation of leading your shots in his basic weapons guide, but no one here or on YouTube has demonstrated anything regarding how much you have to account for leading based on your movement.

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Are these people really arguing about SMG weapon starts?

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14 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You didn't. You just brought up past arguments based on a figure of speech that had no legitimate basis in what I said and avoided my entire spiel. 

Try reading stuff that isn't specifically addressed to you. My responses to your discord buddy had already covered everything you came up with.

14 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

But it really is like you never played Halo 5, though. Because it wasn't a matter of everything else sucking, the SMG just dominated its specific niche, like the BR and DMR did. It was still a melt machine even when the BR could kill you without someone dead-ass aiming at you. Or even when the DMR had a rapid ass RoF and is a 2 shot beat down.

Make up your mind. Did the SMG dominate its specific niche, or did it melt the entire game?

14 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It would still be an ass starting weapon. Automatics THAT powerful, even WITH a 3 shot pistol for example would still suck shit. They always do. 

The SMG really isn't THAT powerful. Again, everything around it is rubbish (especially the magnum and AR), which allows it to shine and make it look more powerful than it actually is.

4 minutes ago, Arlong said:

Are these people really arguing about SMG weapon starts?

No fooling you!

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Just now, Larry Sizemore said:

Make up your mind. Did the SMG dominate its specific niche, or did it dominate the entire game?

The SMG really isn't THAT powerful. Again, everything around it is rubbish (especially the magnum and AR), which allows it to shine and make it look more powerful than it actually is.

I didn't ever make the two distinctions. Only the former, lol. You were the one who said it "looked OP" and dominated the game because everything else sucked. I just said it was a niche-fucker.

Second, it was a melt machine and was super powerful. This is literally a widely held notion here, because it is basically a fucking fact with anyone familiar with launch Halo 5. It literally is like you never played the game on any fundamental level to talk on it like this, let alone with the confidence you do.

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3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I didn't ever make the two distinctions. Only the former, lol. You were the one who said it "looked OP" and dominated the game because everything else sucked. I just said it was a niche-fucker.

If it works well in its niche, then what's the problem? Are weapons supposed to be ineffective in their niche?

3 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Second, it was a melt machine and was super powerful. This is literally a widely held notion here, because it is basically a fucking fact with anyone familiar with launch Halo 5. It literally is like you never played the game on any fundamental level to talk on it like this, let alone with the confidence you do.

"Nobody agreez wiff u so shuddup!!!1" pt. 2. It's like I'm back on fucking Bnet.

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Just now, Larry Sizemore said:

If it works well in its niche, then what's the problem? Are weapons supposed to be ineffective in their niche?

"Nobody agreez wiff u so shuddup!!!1" pt. 2

If the BR and DMR worked well in their niches on launch, what's the problem?

Second, again, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. But you can literally have multiple other people other than me explain this to you so it isn't just someone you deem biased explaining this basic concept.

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8 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

If the BR and DMR worked well in their niches on launch, what's the problem?

Nothing, aside from the fact that it's two weapons occupying one niche, which is undesirable.

8 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Second, again, you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that. But you can literally have multiple other people other than me explain this to you so it isn't just someone you deem biased explaining this basic concept.

No I'm not. You're trying to pass a subjective opinion off as fact by claiming that everyone else agrees with it, therefore it's correct.

Also, how can something be "basically" a fact? It's either a fact or it isn't.

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2 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Nothing, aside from the fact that it's two weapons occupying one niche, which is undesirable.

No I'm not. You're trying to pass a subjective opinion off as fact by claiming that everyone else agrees with it, therefore it's correct.

Also, how can something be "basically" a fact? It's either a fact or it isn't.

So there's no issue with how the launch BR and DMR were? NO issue? 

Second, it's a pretty objective fact the gun fucking melted and was broken, lmao. It's subjective on whether or not you liked using it. Or being frustrated by it. But it was broken as it was. Unarguably.

Third, picking apart my figurative sentences and random English anomalies isn't really proving your point. It was obvious on how I meant that. You prodding at that one use of two words is really showing your lack of an argument.

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The SMG was OP in the context of H5 because magnum users had no room to outplay it even if they hit their shots. What Larry is suggesting (I think?) is that the SMG's power is not unreasonable if it were in a more balanced sandbox. So instead of nerfing the SMG like 343 did, he would buff everything else (which I agree with). Faster kill times across the board are always preferable.

 

If that's not what you meant @Larry Sizemore, then I have no fucking clue what you're saying.

 

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

So there's no issue with how the launch BR and DMR were? NO issue? 

No.

Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Second, it's a pretty objective fact the gun fucking melted and was broken, lmao. It's subjective on whether or not you liked using it. Or being frustrated by it. But it was broken as it was. Unarguably.

There's nothing objective about the opinion that the gun was broken. If the SMG was truly broken, it would have rendered the game unplayable. It didn't.

You're just using words like "broken", "melted", and "dominated" because you're butthurt that the SMG consistently trumped your binkymagnum.

Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Third, picking apart my figurative sentences and random English anomalies isn't really proving your point. It was obvious on how I meant that. You prodding at that one use of two words is really showing your lack of an argument.

Nothing is "basically" a fact. It's either a fact or it isn't.

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6 minutes ago, TeeJaY said:

The SMG was OP in the context of H5 because magnum users had no room to outplay it even if they hit their shots. What Larry is suggesting (I think?) is that the SMG's power is not unreasonable if it were in a more balanced sandbox. So instead of nerfing the SMG like 343 did, he would buff everything else (which I agree with). Faster kill times across the board are always preferable.

Pretty much.

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