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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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9 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

 

And that’s what a game with a real skill gap looks like. The guy who was cheating even accused Rapha of cheating. Priceless. 

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I am definitely on team #PowerWeaponsAddDynamicVariety, but there is no way that H5 has underpowered power weapons.

Power weapons aren't typically balanced so much by skill as they are usually balanced with major trade-offs and weaknesses, to allow for some sort of counterplay, even despite certain checkmate scenarios. H5 goes way out of it's way to lessen or even sometimes outright remove those weaknesses with pretty much the entirety of its sandbox.

The Sniper Rifle: on paper, the flat out most overpowered 1sk weapon at any range, notoriously balanced only by its relative difficulty to aim with compared to the rest of the sandbox. H5 throws this method of balancing out the window by giving the Sniper such a massive headshot hitbox that it makes hitting noscopes with the H4 Beam Rifle look difficult.

The Shotgun: Theoretically, this would be one of the easiest to counter by simply staying out of range. But H5 makes this difficult by continuing the H4 trend of allowing it to 1sk from across a room without needing to barrel-stuff people with it like in the past.

The Energy Sword. A tad more interesting and risky than the Shotgun since lunge makes you move to your opponent's position instead of allowing you to hang back, the counter idea is similar to above: stay out of range, with a slightly bigger chance to kill them even after they pull the trigger. However, H5 ruins this too by giving it an ADS (lol why) lunge range that makes the H2 Sword jealous, and top of that gives it a movement speed boost (which IMO wouldn't so bad by itself but that ADS lunge...).

Rockets: this should be a theoretically avoidable slow moving projectile with a high suicide risk for players using it in CQC. H5's default version has a fast moving projectile against relatively slow moving opponents(when those opponents are shooting, not flying across the map with movement abilities). The blast radius is also pretty  forgiving considering such, while at the same time big not enough to worry as much about suiciding. The SPNKR at least fixes the projectile velocity, but then allows it to fire both shots even faster than the default.

The Plasma Pistol: an otherwise non-lethal weapon used to weaken opponents fast but only after charging up a slow moving projectile. However, in H5, the tracking has absurd lock-on range thanks to ADS discrepancies, isn't actually that slow for what it can do, and has tracking second-in-strength only to H2.

The Needler: theoretically avoidable slow-moving tracking projectiles that are only lethal with a supercombine. Like the Plasma Pistol, the projectiles aren't that slow, and have absurd tracking. Technically you could duck into cover if you see either of these weapons coming, but how often is that really going to be the case?

Railgun: a Sniper-Rocket-Shotgun all rolled into one, with a charge time to provide a tell for targeted players to react. Would actually maybe be fine if it required headshots and the magnetism didn't rival the H5 Sniper. Admittedly not quite as ridiculously easy to hit with as in H4, though. Although they now made it hitscan early into H5, so... yeah...

Autos in general: typically either traditionally weak to counteract their forgiving ease of use, or have high spread/bloom/even recoil(H2 SMG), to provide 'speed bumbs' on their effectiveness at range. Previous games typically had a combination of both balancing factors. H5 once again says screw all of that and gives autos not only strong damage, but also high range while maintaining their extreme forgiveness. The Storm Rifle killed in just 7 shots. Let that sink in with just how fast that is in relation to the utility weapon...

Precision weapons: speaking of which, while redundant, these and autos were all at least somewhat balanced to be sidegrades in previous games. In H5, they are literal straight upgrades, with more ammo, range, and all were much easier to use than the default Magnum utility. You couldn't even use rock-paper-scissors to counter them well like in H4 Turbo or other modern shooters. Because they were straight up just outright better and more forgiving.

And the list continues. For quite literally every single weapon pickup in H5.

Thrust also can't be used to 'prove' that these weapons are fine because Thrust is the VERY REASON everything is so astronomically OP. Not to mention ADS and every other Spartan Ability in H5, all of which have been discussed to death on this forum about how much they break Halo. And just think, Thrust has a 4 second cooldown. So if you have already used it, and you will often, 4 seconds is plenty of time to attempt to fight back against over-compensated-for-Thrust forgiving power weapons using sub-par base movement speed... and have significantly higher than previously established chances of failing.

Trying to salvage classic Halo in H5 via the form of Evolved settings proved this to me more than anything. Even with higher movement speed and strafe acceleration, the complete removal of Thrust gave damn near everything in the sandbox free roam to continually hit excessively easy shots and kills. Even attempts to combat this with a stronger 4sk Magnum utility didn't really fix this, since the limited methods 343I gave us to edit the sandbox (such as reducing shields and increasing health) only caused further balance problems. Not to mention the wonky aiming system which made it yet even worse trying to counter with the utility weapon.

H5's sandbox is completely un-redeemable. Less so than Reach in V7, and even to IMO a lesser extent H4's shortlived tournament settings (where sprint and flinch were hard-coded in and unable to be removed). All of this nonsense with H5's sandbox made me hate the game even more than I already had at launch.

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1 hour ago, arglactable said:

Quake pick-ups and Halo pick-ups aren't even remotely comparable, lmao. Stop.

Yeah. Quad damage is way stronger than any power item in halo. 

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36 minutes ago, SMARTAN 427 said:

Fake News: The Post

Good news - spartan abilities (mainly thruster) nullify just about all of this, or the more plausible parts at least. Doomsday-tier shit like the shotgun and needler entries are either completely false or stretch the truth to its absolute limits.

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22 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

Good news - spartan abilities (mainly thruster) nullify just about all of this, or the more plausible parts at least. Doomsday-tier shit like the shotgun and needler entries are either completely false or stretch the truth to its absolute limits.

Alright, alright, sure. The god-strafe-on-command that can only be used once every 4 seconds against stuff over-compensated to 'balance' it.

And my bad, the H5 Shotgun doesn't actually quite 1sk from across the 'small' rooms on maps stretched for Sprint. ;)

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...in what universe are h5s PWs not completely out of their minds?

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9 hours ago, Boyo said:

No, that’s not enough.  I would compare the flag carrier to the king in chess.  You move slow but can kill anything you come in to direct contact with.  That’s good balance imo.

The flsgnum is still weak in the regard that you move slower making you an easier target if you don’t drop it. Sooo 

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13 hours ago, TeeJaY said:

Power items have little to do with the skill gap. If players are consistently outshooting you for the power items, then there's a good chance they're already better than you. Power items don't allow "worse" players to perform at your level because worse players won't be grabbing items consistently. It would be true if fighting for power items was a roll of the dice, but it's not. Not even close. 

This only works if one power wep/up comes up at a time and there is only one way to get to said item. There are players that rely heavily on outshooting and they can be outplayed by either nading the power item away/to themselves or by flanking or by setting traps. Similarly you can use ur nades to blow away their nades so that they cant nade the power item but doing so usually makes you heavily open to be jumped if they chose not to nade it. 

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12 hours ago, arglactable said:

Quake pick-ups and Halo pick-ups aren't even remotely comparable, lmao. Stop.

? They are pretty comparable. Red armor is essentially OS and rail is about as wanted as snipe in halo. Rocks and rail spawns can be and are guarded if desired but usually is disregarded in favor of the mega or red. 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

? They are pretty comparable. Red armor is essentially OS and rail is about as wanted as snipe in halo. Rocks and rail spawns can be and are guarded if desired but usually is disregarded in favor of the mega or red. 

The strength of quad damage in Quake dwarves the strength and bullshit of anything dumb to ever exist in Halo tbh, that powerup is total and complete nonsense. Even at the highest level of champion play, people just run from it and crouch in a corner. Because that's all you can do. Even a full 200/200 stack will go in less than a second from most weapons combo'd with the quad damage.  It pretty much single handedly is what gets me to rage quit quake every time I load it up, which is like...almost every day. There's been games where the post game carnage posts my mega health/mega armor pickups as 30+ and the enemies as ~5.  Doesn't matter, they got the quad damages. Which means they go on asinine 5 kill sprees in the matter of seconds.

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2 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

The strength of quad damage in Quake dwarves the strength and bullshit of anything dumb to ever exist in Halo tbh, that powerup is total and complete nonsense. Even at the highest level of champion play, people just run from it and crouch in a corner. Because that's all you can do. Even a full 200/200 stack will go in less than a second from most weapons combo'd with the quad damage.  It pretty much single handedly is what gets me to rage quit quake every time I load it up, which is like...almost every day. There's been games where the post game carnage posts my mega health/mega armor pickups as 30+ and the enemies as ~5.  Doesn't matter, they got the quad damages. Which means they go on asinine 5 kill sprees in the matter of seconds.

So control quad like you control the other items. Isn't rocket science. Power weapons exist to create an objective that players have to fight over. If you are letting them consistently get quad you aren't playing the game well. 

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11 minutes ago, infraction said:

So control quad like you control the other items. Isn't rocket science. Power weapons exist to create an objective that players have to fight over. If you are letting them consistently get quad you aren't playing the game well. 

I could just as easily have an instant kill powerup on the map (which quad isn't too far off of) and use that same exact reasoning.  It's possible to have points of contention be fought over something that isn't so blatantly game breaking. Clearly if I can time/collect 30+ health pickups I'm capable of controlling things. It just so happens that losing 1 item as opposed to 30 is somehow outweighing everything else I did correctly.  That's not good. If sacrificing every other aspect and skillful element of quake to collect a quad damage is "playing the game well" then it's not a surprise to me that the game is dead. Which is exactly the scenario we're in.

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4 hours ago, MultiLockOn said:

The strength of quad damage in Quake dwarves the strength and bullshit of anything dumb to ever exist in Halo tbh, that powerup is total and complete nonsense. Even at the highest level of champion play, people just run from it and crouch in a corner. Because that's all you can do. Even a full 200/200 stack will go in less than a second from most weapons combo'd with the quad damage.  It pretty much single handedly is what gets me to rage quit quake every time I load it up, which is like...almost every day. There's been games where the post game carnage posts my mega health/mega armor pickups as 30+ and the enemies as ~5.  Doesn't matter, they got the quad damages. Which means they go on asinine 5 kill sprees in the matter of seconds.

I didnt say all of them were comparable. I agree we dont have something like quad damage in halo. 

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Just now, Riddler said:

I didnt say all of them were comparable. I agree we dont have something like quad damage in halo. 

I just wanted to complain about quad damage let me be lol

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1 minute ago, MultiLockOn said:

I just wanted to complain about quad damage let me be lol

Even halo doesnt use rockets in 1v1. Quad was restricted to team play in previous iterations and thats where it should have stayed. 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

I didnt say all of them were comparable. I agree we dont have something like quad damage in halo. 

You're right. We have shit that's worse and will outright kill you in one shot.

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4 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You're right. We have shit that's worse and will outright kill you in one shot.

Quad is easily stronger than any power weapon in halo. One rail shot will kill anyone unless you have a full stack (essentially having custom in h3 for comparison)

You SHRED people with the LG and rockets will end up 1 shorting people pretty easily as well 

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3 minutes ago, infraction said:

Quad is easily stronger than any power weapon in halo. One rail shot will kill anyone unless you have a full stack (essentially having custom in h3 for comparison)

You SHRED people with the LG and rockets will end up 1 shorting people pretty easily as well 

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah, rockets will one shot you by default in Halo, lmao. As can a snipe. And the former has a generous area of effect. And it takes no power up to do that.

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