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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Power items have little to do with the skill gap. If players are consistently outshooting you for the power items, then there's a good chance they're already better than you. Power items don't allow "worse" players to perform at your level because worse players won't be grabbing items consistently. It would be true if fighting for power items was a roll of the dice, but it's not. Not even close. 

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3 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Ah my sweet summer child show some self awareness please. It's almost like we have had this exact same conversation and all it ends up at is you guys calling us ******* for not liking what you like. This isn't new.

fucking boomers man, lowkey yikes lmao

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Also here you go young one. Halo 5 is NOTORIOUS for having stupidly powerful broken power weapons. It was pretty much unanimously believed by pros that the game was dominated too hard by power weapons. And literally every map change made to HCS, shockingly, limited power weapons either by ammo or numbers. So forgive me for assuming you don't play the game based on that flat out wrong statement. However, you could simply, I don't know, answer the question I asked about how much you played the game. You know, a tangible number of sorts?

In warzone, sure. Every power weapon in warzone was a BFG on steroids, by design. In arena? The "power weapons" were garbage (but then again, so were the starting weapons). They weren't nearly as much of a priority to secure as the power items in a game like Halo 1. The gameplay reflected that. I mean people were labeling the fucking STORM RIFLE as a power weapon.

As far the pros go, just about every pro player that even gave Halo 5 more than a passing glance lists Halo 3 as their favorite competitive Halo and said "no bloom no skill" while Reach was tanking on the MLG circuit. So forgive me for chucking their opinions right in the trash, right next to those of reddit and, of course, your little discord crew.

Fuck, 343's shiny new PRO team supposedly helped build Halo 5 arena and it was still horrid. The pros were involved the development of the game and didn't even know what they were doing. How do you like that?

3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It literally sounds like you've never played Halo 5 before, lol. 

It literally sounds like you've never played a Halo game that isn't Halo 5, lol.

3 hours ago, VinnyMendoza said:

Your second paragraph didn't really convince me of anything. It was kinda like a "just because" argument. I still don't see how the weapon requiring more skill would be a bad thing. Perhaps it could still be really powerful if that's what people like about it, but require more skill in its usage. Imo it would just make it even more awesome when a pro is slaughtering people with it in a way I could never do. That's the appeal of the sniper for instance.

They can already do that, like I said in my OP. At least, in Halo 1 and, to a lesser extent, Reach. I never see any rocket wizardry going on with those paper H2/H3 rockets, despite having a smaller blast radius and presumably requiring more skill to use effectively. It's always pick it up and, since the weapon sucks, don't even bother trying to get greedy or look for opportunities to turn one into two. See the guy, kill the guy. Rinse and repeat till they're out of rockets.

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1 hour ago, MultiLockOn said:

No one gave me the right, that's what objectivity means.  I didn't determine it otherwise it would be subjective.  Ironically, the most condescending a egotistical thing I find is when someone is trying to discuss mechanics and then the other party devolves into "well, that's subjective".  The very idea of objectivity is the most humbling perspective any designer or artist can follow - it means you admit that you determine nothing and simply recognize a truth that exists within everyone.  That everybody is capable of inherently recognizing the human nature within us and that there is something we are inexplicably drawn to ("good" game design) and that we're just struggling to interpret that and reach it.

You looking at any discussion, any merit of competition, any game, any piece of art, and then instantly devaluing it into "well CE 2's are in my opinion bad" is what find to be condescending; an undeserved and unwarranted critique.  As if I was going to listen to the Moonlight Sonata and respond in kind with "Well don't like it, it's subjective." 

 

'Competitive' (or, skill ceiling to describe it more accurately) is probably the easiest thing to measure in a game.  Average kill times vs perfect kill times, strafe speed, AA levels, outside factors to track, outplay potential.. all numbers that can be easily looked at and digested.  Even outside of that, I think everyone whether or not they want to admit it is perfectly capable of inherently recognizing something and how it resonates with them without ever consciously realizing it or stating it.

Ok thank you for this statement. You’re right in every regard to this. And average kill times isn’t a good comparison when the utility of ce is 0.6s. Faster ttk doesn’t mean more skill as seen in a game like apex with ttk longer than halo. A faster ttk simply gives you a better chance of taking out two opponents who were looking the opposite direction 

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7 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

In warzone, sure. Every power weapon in warzone was a BFG on steroids, by design. In arena? The "power weapons" were garbage (but then again, so were the starting weapons). They weren't nearly as much of a priority to secure as the power items in a game like Halo 1. The gameplay reflected that. I mean people were labeling the fucking STORM RIFLE as a power weapon.

It literally sounds like you've never played a Halo game that isn't Halo 5, lol.

The power weapons were obnoxious. Rockets are a guaranteed kill and the sniper is notorious for being an easy gun. They still exist in Arena. Let alone shit like swords, fuel rods, the like. The fact a Storm Rifle could melt people doesn't mean the other weapons were weak. It was just a sub-power weapon pickup that was insanely powerful. You're outright wrong if you think they weren't a priority to secure. I'd argue they were a BIGGER priority than CE simply because of the shift in killtimes between the weapons. The gap between a one shot rocket in 5 is much larger than that of CE when your gun's perfect kill time is half a second compared to a second and a half. You have a much larger advantage in the former than you do the latter.

 

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39 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

If you make a game that has to be played "at a high level" to be fun your game isn't good

This is one of the reasons I prefer Halo over games like Quake and UT, I recognize the skill those games take but if you have to play at a high level for it to be 'fun' why would I even invest the time to get good in the first place when I can just play a game that is (imo) a lot more fun at a lower level?

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8 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

In warzone, sure. Every power weapon in warzone was a BFG on steroids, by design. In arena? The "power weapons" were garbage (but then again, so were the starting weapons). They weren't nearly as relevant to the outcome of a match as the power items in a game like Halo 1. The gameplay reflected that. I mean people were labeling the fucking STORM RIFLE as a power weapon.

In what UNIVERSE was Halo 5's Power Weapon pool for Arena not obnoxious as hell? Sniper was easy, Rockets were brain AIDS, Railgun was a joke, Scattershot was cancer, Shotgun was double cancer, and Plasma Pistol physically drained my life force. Every contestable item in competitive Halo 5 was too powerful and too easy, and arguing otherwise would be outright lying to yourself.

As far the pros go, just about every pro player that even gave Halo 5 more than a passing glance lists Halo 3 as their favorite competitive Halo and said "no bloom no skill" while Reach was tanking on the MLG circuit. So forgive me for chucking their opinions right in the trash, right next to those of reddit and, of course, your little discord crew.

I can respect you taking a big cup of salt towards Halo professionals, as they've had a history of poor opinions of what makes the series great. Reddit, sure. Our discord is something you don't have enough information to judge about, besides Beast and Princess's thoughts on Power Weapons. They actively dislike them, and would rather play customs without them, focusing on only objective modes. They don't like cheese, and I can respect their belief of wanting to avoid it whenever they get the chance.

Fuck, 343's shiny new PRO team supposedly helped build Halo 5 arena and it was still horrid. The pros were involved the development of the game and didn't even know what they were doing. How do you like that?

They weren't brutally honest enough about how the game should feel, and even then, made some mistakes down the road (Squirrely Aim). But the things they did manage to change, such as bringing back descope, or allowing the flag to be dropped, or a smaller radar for the start of the game's life, were changes that made the game tolerable enough. That being said, let us hope that the new set of Pros actually speak their mind, and are well articulated in how Halo should play.

It literally sounds like you've never played a Halo game that isn't Halo 5, lol.

Beast, Princess, and myself have played nearly every FPS Halo under the sun, and we are all very capable. I repeat myself when I say that they value consistency over tradition, which means they like the games where the guns shoot straight and register well. I've personally taken it upon myself to follow their lead and have shut off CE 4v4 and H3 4v4 in MCC, for those games are inconsistent in an online environment nine times out of ten, and the level of ridiculousness they emit is something I no longer want a part of.

Responses in bold italics.

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30 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

fucking boomers man, lowkey yikes lmao

In warzone, sure. Every power weapon in warzone was a BFG on steroids, by design. In arena? The "power weapons" were garbage (but then again, so were the starting weapons). They weren't nearly as much of a priority to secure as the power items in a game like Halo 1. The gameplay reflected that. I mean people were labeling the fucking STORM RIFLE as a power weapon.

As far the pros go, just about every pro player that even gave Halo 5 more than a passing glance lists Halo 3 as their favorite competitive Halo and said "no bloom no skill" while Reach was tanking on the MLG circuit. So forgive me for chucking their opinions right in the trash, right next to those of reddit and, of course, your little discord crew.

Fuck, 343's shiny new PRO team supposedly helped build Halo 5 arena and it was still horrid. The pros were involved the development of the game and didn't even know what they were doing. How do you like that?

It literally sounds like you've never played a Halo game that isn't Halo 5, lol.

They can already do that, like I said in my OP. At least, in Halo 1 and, to a lesser extent, Reach. I never see any rocket wizardry going on with those paper H2/H3 rockets, despite having a smaller blast radius and presumably requiring more skill to use effectively. It's always pick it up and, since the weapon sucks, don't even bother trying to get greedy or look for opportunities to turn one into two. See the guy, kill the guy. Rinse and repeat till they're out of rockets.

I'm not gonna even bother debunking half the shit you just said. However, if you really think power weapons were as non-factor then you straight up didn't play the game. I don't even need to go into detail because every single person here but you knows that you're wrong with that statement. 

Also no bloom no skill has been proven MULTIPLE TIMES to be a misquote by fucking Ogre 2 himself. So come on man actually learn on the shit you speak about. 

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Yeah @Larry Sizemore I'm siding with the yIkEs gAnG gAnG here, Halo 5's power weapons are the most blatantly over-powered weapons in the series. The Rockets, Railgun and Sniper are impossible to fail with they are so damn strong. 

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Rockets are a guaranteed kill

*thrusts*

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

the sniper is notorious for being an easy gun.

Better hope you get the headshot. Otherwise, *thrusts*.

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

swords

Terrible even with the speed boost.

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

fuel rods

Terrible.

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The fact a Storm Rifle could melt people doesn't mean the other weapons were weak.

It kinda does.

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It was just a sub-power weapon pickup that was insanely powerful.

> storm rifle

> insanely powerful

See the source image

2 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You're outright wrong if you think they weren't a priority to secure. I'd argue they were a BIGGER priority than CE simply because of the shift in killtimes between the weapons. The gap between a one shot rocket in 5 is much larger than that of CE when your gun's perfect kill time is half a second compared to a second and a half. You have a much larger advantage in the former than you do the latter.

If they were such a priority, then why didn't anybody prioritize them?

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13 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

In what UNIVERSE was Halo 5's Power Weapon pool for Arena not obnoxious as hell? Sniper was easy, Rockets were brain AIDS, Railgun was a joke, Scattershot was cancer, Shotgun was double cancer, and Plasma Pistol physically drained my life force. Every contestable item in competitive Halo 5 was too powerful and too easy, and arguing otherwise would be outright lying to yourself.

This one.

Lol the big bad scattershot and plasma pistol? Really? So basically any weapon that did anything at all to impede the progress of the Quinnfighter Magnum was OP and obnoxious.

14 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

I can respect you taking a big cup of salt towards Halo professionals, as they've had a history of poor opinions of what makes the series great. Reddit, sure. Our discord is something you don't have enough information to judge about, besides Beast and Princess's thoughts on Power Weapons. They actively dislike them, and would rather play customs without them, focusing on only objective modes. They don't like cheese, and I can respect their belief of wanting to avoid it whenever they get the chance.

So in other words, I shouldn't be tossing their opinions in the trash, I should be lugging them outside and throwing them in the dumpster.

14 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

They weren't brutally honest enough about how the game should feel, and even then, made some mistakes down the road (Squirrely Aim). But the things they did manage to change, such as bringing back descope, or allowing the flag to be dropped, or a smaller radar for the start of the game's life, were changes that made the game tolerable enough. That being said, let us hope that the new set of Pros actually speak their mind, and are well articulated in how Halo should play.

And yet flagnums came back even though the mastermind of that brilliant idea had been moved over to Warzone full time, and EIGHT SECOND SLAYER RESPAWNS.

14 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Beast, Princess, and myself have played nearly every FPS Halo under the sun, and we are all very capable. I repeat myself when I say that they value consistency over tradition, which means they like the games where the guns shoot straight and register well. I've personally taken it upon myself to follow their lead and have shut off CE 4v4 and H3 4v4 in MCC, for those games are inconsistent in an online environment nine times out of ten, and the level of ridiculousness they emit is something I no longer want a part of.

Tell someone who cares.

11 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I'm not gonna even bother debunking half the shit you just said.

There's a shocker.

11 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I don't even need to go into detail because every single person here but you knows that you're wrong with that statement.

#yikes

11 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Also no bloom no skill has been proven MULTIPLE TIMES to be a misquote by fucking Ogre 2 himself. So come on man actually learn on the shit you speak about. 

Proven where?

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The SPKR rockets in h5 are straight dogshit. It’s slow and it doesn’t have enough power. The og h5 rocket launcher is balanced with the abilities in mind.

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1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

This one.

Lol the big bad scattershot and plasma pistol? Really? So basically any weapon that did anything at all to impede the progress of the Quinnfighter Magnum was OP and obnoxious.

So in other words, I shouldn't be tossing their opinions in the trash, I should be lugging them outside and throwing them in the dumpster.

And yet flagnums came back even though the mastermind of that brilliant idea had been moved over to Warzone full time, and EIGHT SECOND SLAYER RESPAWNS.

Tell someone who cares.

There's a shocker.

#yikes

Proven where?

Is Flagnums a bad thing? It was only bad in h4 simply because you couldn’t drop it. 

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Watching Rapha win FFA in Quake Champions by 20+ kills on twitch. You’d think the gap would be a lot smaller with all those cheese pickups like quad damage and mega health to help the lesser skilled players...

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5 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Watching Rapha win FFA in Quake Champions by 20+ kills on twitch. You’d think the gap would be a lot smaller with all those cheese pickups like quad damage and mega health to help the lesser skilled players...

Quake pick-ups and Halo pick-ups aren't even remotely comparable, lmao. Stop.

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Just now, Fixaimingsorry said:

Is Flagnums a bad thing? It was only bad in h4 simply because you couldn’t drop it. 

Flagnums are dog shit. If you're going to allow someone to advance the objective while being able to effectively defend themselves (something I disagree with anyway), just go all the way with it and have the character retain full weapon usage while just putting the flag on their back. No half measures.

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19 minutes ago, arglactable said:

Quake pick-ups and Halo pick-ups aren't even remotely comparable, lmao. Stop.

I know they are very different but you can see where someone could easily say that a pickup that gives you four times the damage or a pickup that gives you 200% health is just pure cheese that makes the game less competitive but in practice it doesn’t really play that way. The same applies to CE. It’s easy to say that Camo is pure cheese that would make CE less competitive but in practice it’s more competitive than future Halos.

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1 hour ago, Larry Sizemore said:

*thrusts*

Better hope you get the headshot. Otherwise, *thrusts*.

Terrible even with the speed boost.

Terrible.

It kinda does.

> storm rifle

> insanely powerful

If they were such a priority, then why didn't anybody prioritize them?

Yeah, you're talking out of your ass, lmao.

19 minutes ago, cH_ said:

"your little discord crew"

actually we're fucking huge and juicy, @TheIcePrincessis an IFBB pro

Was meant to be kept secret. Clear comms, clear comms.

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40 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Is Flagnums a bad thing? It was only bad in h4 simply because you couldn’t drop it. 

Yes, Flagnum is bad.  When you are carrying the only item capable of putting points on the scoreboard you should have to sacrifice your offensive capabilities.

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49 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Watching Rapha win FFA in Quake Champions by 20+ kills on twitch. You’d think the gap would be a lot smaller with all those cheese pickups like quad damage and mega health to help the lesser skilled players...

 

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9 minutes ago, Boyo said:

Yes, Flagnum is bad.  When you are carrying the only item capable of putting points on the scoreboard you should have to sacrifice your offensive capabilities.

Why? The flagnum makes you move slower so you don’t get the full strafe speed, is that not enough? Are you angry how there’s times when you’re killed by it? 

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2 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Why? The flagnum makes you move slower so you don’t get the full strafe speed, is that not enough? 

No, that’s not enough.  I would compare the flag carrier to the king in chess.  You move slow but can kill anything you come in to direct contact with.  That’s good balance imo.

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