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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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1 minute ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Because that’s what every post is. You can’t say stuff like “more skillful” or “more competitive” without looking like a fool thinking it’s a fact.

It's funny you say that cuz that's where like alllllllll these arguments come from. We just say what we enjoy and people come flying with their "objective" wisdom and "facts" lmao. 

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10 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

And here’s my response, sooooo what! You die one or two deaths because of a power weapon. You didn’t control these weapons, so you/your team deserves to suffer because of it. You say truth plays miles better without power weapons, when that isn’t true, as there’s the plasma pistol(aka Noob combo) and this weapon does provide game changing moments. There’s also camo a power up providing game changing moments.

Yeah, one or two deaths that can result in pure collapses that should not happen. Again, controlling them is a circular point when if I controlled them, I'd just be bullshitting the enemy. It doesn't change how bad rockets are, lol. I just use the terribleness.

Second, the plasma pistol is nowhere near the same as an energy sword or fuel rod. At all. One drains shields and is at top mid. A place where you will be SHREDDED in an average HCS match, meaning the risk v. reward of noob comboing is ironically not worth it. Compare that to a rapid-fire AoE rocket launcher with 15 rounds max. Or a sword that gives you quicker movement speed and an insane lunge. One has utility in a CTF game, the other just dominates players. Camo is the biggest issue now, but it also sucks on every other map it's on, not just Truth. Camo in general is dumb.

Current Truth is one of the best maps in the game without them there.

14 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Power weapons help reverse a bad situation easier. There’s something about it being easier that ticks you off. I understand how frustrating it can be to lose map control because of rockets but that was my teams fault for not getting that weapon. It’s an element you think shouldn’t exist but I think otherwise. Let’s look at a map like ascension. The main tower is such a controlling spot, but there’s a way to take control of it easier, and that’s the power weapons on the map. A person or two from your squad is now forced to leave this powering position in order to prevent the enemy from getting these weapons that easily can give a comeback. 

Ascension isn't competitively viable. Even if it was, big tower isn't exactly the be all end all. You could sit small with a snipe and have someone overlooking the snipe spawn on the ramp and literally just sit there pegging people at Banshee. Especially given big tower's only manner of reaching a sniper is within small tower's LoS to it. So small tower, where one team spawns, mind you, literally has the three power weapons on the map within their grasp. Rockets are down by a teleporter near your dominate tower, and you can snipe the dude before he can take big tower's snipe. Meaning you can stack or take it. In this case, it just allows one side to literally camp out games, because there is little to nothing red can do against a sniper that is always RRRing them across the map. It's a huge example of how they make a map worse, lol.

9 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Which in turn plays ten times worse than chillout which has three power items spawning frequently. And the skill gap is way bigger to boot. Your vision of what competitive Halo should be is shite mate. (Don’t get me wrong I still love 4v4 midship but it’s no CE)

It may be April but it's not the 1st anymore. Nice try. 

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12 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Because that’s what every post is. You can’t say stuff like “more skillful” or “more competitive” without looking like a fool thinking it’s a fact.

The problem is we are all deeply entrenched in our own opinions at this point in Halo's life-cycle, I still think we can have interesting discussions about our opinions on Halo without it going sour but being able to consider the possibility that our own opinions might be wrong can go a long way.

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It may be April but it's not the 1st anymore. Nice try. 

It wasn’t a joke. It also probably came off as more adversarial than necessary. I probably should’ve added an IMO. But I really would rather play chillout or prisoner or pretty much any other map in CE than Truth with no power ups. I didn’t even say that that version of Halo isn’t competitive because it is and I have fun enough playing it but it pales in comparison to CE. There’s a reason CE players (as few as there are) still get together regularly and LAN a game that came out in 2001. I’m also thoroughly convinced that a game of 2v2 slayer on chillout has a way bigger skill gap than 4v4 CTF on Truth and that is less of an opinion and more of an objective fact but one that would be pretty damn hard to prove.  

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1 minute ago, LI Mr X IL said:

It wasn’t a joke. It also probably came off as more adversarial than necessary. I probably should’ve added an IMO. But I really would rather play chillout or prisoner or pretty much any other map in CE than Truth with no power ups. I didn’t even say that that version of Halo isn’t competitive because it is and I have fun enough playing it but it pales in comparison to CE. There’s a reason CE players (as few as there are) still get together regularly and LAN a game that came out in 2001. I’m also thoroughly convinced that a game of 2v2 slayer on chillout has a way bigger skill gap than 4v4 CTF on Truth and that is less of an opinion and more of an objective fact but one that would be pretty damn hard to prove.  

The reason could easily be construed as nostalgia. Tis also a slight appeal to popularity. Do not like. 

And nah. Chill Out loses points off the rip with easy rockets in a CQC map. 

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23 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The reason could easily be construed as nostalgia. Tis also a slight appeal to popularity. Do not like. 

And nah. Chill Out loses points off the rip with easy rockets in a CQC map. 

It’s nostalgia when you start up an old game, play it for a couple of hours, and then realize there are better games and shut it off to go play the latest game never to touch the old game again. It isn’t nostalgia when you continuously play it again and again and in some cases pretty much only it. It also isn’t nostalgia when new players are still picking it up today and getting into it. It want really an appeal to popularity because in terms of number of players H5 probably has a higher player count than CE. My point is that the people who are playing CE are playing a game that came out 17 years ago. I highly doubt the people playing H5 now are going to be playing it 17 years from now. There’s something about the gameplay. It may not be your flavor of Halo but it is my flavor of Halo.

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3 minutes ago, LI Mr X IL said:

It’s nostalgia when you start up an old game, play it for a couple of hours, and then realize there are better games and shut it off to go play the latest game never to touch the old game again. It isn’t nostalgia when you continuously play it again and again and in some cases pretty much only it. It also isn’t nostalgia when new players are still picking it up today and getting into it. It want really an appeal to popularity because in terms of number of players H5 probably has a higher player count than CE. My point is that the people who are playing CE are playing a game that came out 17 years ago. I highly doubt the people playing H5 now are going to be playing it 17 years from now. There’s something about the gameplay. It may not be your flavor of Halo but it is my flavor of Halo.

Appealing to popularity isn't a comparison. It can happen regardless of which side you fall on. It's just appealing to what a group of people think, or arguing based on that group of people. Second, o-kay. It still doesn't change my endpoints. People will play Halo 3 more than they will 5, and that game is a dumpster fire. I don't reallyyyyyyyyy mind or care for what people play long after it's irrelevant. 

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1 hour ago, Mow said:

The problem is we are all deeply entrenched in our own opinions at this point in Halo's life-cycle, I still think we can have interesting discussions about our opinions on Halo without it going sour but being able to consider the possibility that our own opinions might be wrong can go a long way.

In a forum where majority here are ce fanboys, and think it’s the “perfect” competitive halo” lmao good luck.

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1 hour ago, LI Mr X IL said:

 

It wasn’t a joke. It also probably came off as more adversarial than necessary. I probably should’ve added an IMO. But I really would rather play chillout or prisoner or pretty much any other map in CE than Truth with no power ups. I didn’t even say that that version of Halo isn’t competitive because it is and I have fun enough playing it but it pales in comparison to CE. There’s a reason CE players (as few as there are) still get together regularly and LAN a game that came out in 2001. I’m also thoroughly convinced that a game of 2v2 slayer on chillout has a way bigger skill gap than 4v4 CTF on Truth and that is less of an opinion and more of an objective fact but one that would be pretty damn hard to prove.  

If it’s difficult to prove then it’s not a fact, becaus there’s just no way can you prove it. You just believe you can so until you can prove it, it’s an opinion pal.

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2 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Yeah, one or two deaths that can result in pure collapses that should not happen. Again, controlling them is a circular point when if I controlled them, I'd just be bullshitting the enemy. It doesn't change how bad rockets are, lol. I just use the terribleness.

Second, the plasma pistol is nowhere near the same as an energy sword or fuel rod. At all. One drains shields and is at top mid. A place where you will be SHREDDED in an average HCS match, meaning the risk v. reward of noob comboing is ironically not worth it. Compare that to a rapid-fire AoE rocket launcher with 15 rounds max. Or a sword that gives you quicker movement speed and an insane lunge. One has utility in a CTF game, the other just dominates players. Camo is the biggest issue now, but it also sucks on every other map it's on, not just Truth. Camo in general is dumb.

Current Truth is one of the best maps in the game without them there.

Ascension isn't competitively viable. Even if it was, big tower isn't exactly the be all end all. You could sit small with a snipe and have someone overlooking the snipe spawn on the ramp and literally just sit there pegging people at Banshee. Especially given big tower's only manner of reaching a sniper is within small tower's LoS to it. So small tower, where one team spawns, mind you, literally has the three power weapons on the map within their grasp. Rockets are down by a teleporter near your dominate tower, and you can snipe the dude before he can take big tower's snipe. Meaning you can stack or take it. In this case, it just allows one side to literally camp out games, because there is little to nothing red can do against a sniper that is always RRRing them across the map. It's a huge example of how they make a map worse, lol.

It may be April but it's not the 1st anymore. Nice try. 

I never said ascension was competitive viable but  my point still stood. In pit ctf without power weapons it would be tedious long to break a set up, without the power ups or weapons. One reason we have power weapons and ups, is simply to speed the game up, give a bit of an advantage or simply a better reason for a team to be aggressive. You know it’s funny when I think about it, rockets are pretty under powered in h2,3&5. The only halos they’re extremely good in are h1&reach. In h3 a simple jump is enough to dodge the rocket and if you were looking/shooting at the carrier during the encounter they will get 4/5 shotted before they can switch. Rockets aren’t difficult but I say if you can get a kill with h3/5 rockets, you’ve earned it. 

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Am I right that we are debating if power weapons are viable? Power weapons promote map movement which makes a game more exciting to both play and watch. If CE didn't have power ups/weapons a lot more matches would just become boring stalemates. The constant map movement and power spawns are a big reason I play a lot of MCC CE (and I never played OG CE multiplayer so I can't comment on that). 

I guess we could argue is Camo in CE too powerful or is Rockets/Sniper too easy to use, but the power ups have to be good enough to promote the map movement. If the CE Camo is like the Halo 2 campaign Camo then it likely doesn't promote the map movement that CE does now.

So it's a balance between a power up being too weak that it isn't worth going for, and being too strong where it is now OP. 

Maybe Halo Infinite's power weapon should just be the CE Magnum since Rockets are not skillful. A gun that's definitely worth fighting for (especially if the starting utility is a 5sk) but getting the power weapon doesn't result in automatic kills. 

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1 hour ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

In a forum where majority here are ce fanboys, and think it’s the “perfect” competitive halo” lmao good luck.

I think CE 2v2 is the best competitive game in the series, does that mean we can't have a reasonable discussion about opinions and preferences of Halo?

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1 hour ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

I never said ascension was competitive viable but  my point still stood. In pit ctf without power weapons it would be tedious long to break a set up, without the power ups or weapons. One reason we have power weapons and ups, is simply to speed the game up, give a bit of an advantage or simply a better reason for a team to be aggressive. You know it’s funny when I think about it, rockets are pretty under powered in h2,3&5. The only halos they’re extremely good in are h1&reach. In h3 a simple jump is enough to dodge the rocket and if you were looking/shooting at the carrier during the encounter they will get 4/5 shotted before they can switch. Rockets aren’t difficult but I say if you can get a kill with h3/5 rockets, you’ve earned it. 

H3 Rockets are basically a suicide nuke.

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I have never in my life seen someone post as much as fixaimingsorry. Nor create account after account after account just to be heard.

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I have never in my life seen someone post as much as fixaimingsorry. Nor create account after account after account just to be heard.

OddDirectDobermanpinscher-size_restricte

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7 hours ago, Mow said:

I think CE 2v2 is the best competitive game in the series, does that mean we can't have a reasonable discussion about opinions and preferences of Halo?

No we can’t, because it all comes down to heated arguments, one side believing they’re right, the other refusing to believe they’re wrong. I already debated a while ago I hated ce camo because it’s blatantly not possible to see(mcc ce) at least reach and h5 have effective camos that aren’t completely invisible. In other games there’s a sleight blur that if you pay attention you can see. 

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3 hours ago, Shekkles said:

I have never in my life seen someone post as much as fixaimingsorry. Nor create account after account after account just to be heard.

Well now you have Mr.Shekkles, you got a point you want to make to make yourself feel better?

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If you are in a duel in quake and have the better aim but can’t control red armor or mega health, is this a matter of poor design or poor strategy?

I think halo is a pretty straight forward game in terms of decision making for competitive players. Players instinctively move off spawn to a better spot without spending much time to think about it. One of the more interesting aspects to me is when a player has many choices. That’s where chill out 2v2 plays so well. Every two minutes you make a choice of sacrificing an item to get a better one. So I don’t really get this feeling in other halos. Pit can sometimes give this feeling when all the timers are close to each other. Other than that it’s just a matter of map control and positioning which should be the simplest concept for a competitive halo player. Pushing with a teammate and team shooting is one of the easiest strategies to do and is incredibly effective since later games don’t offer much individual power for a player to win that 1v2.

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Halo without meaningful power items is just fucking boring to me. It adds flavour to a game that would play similarly 99% of the time. 

It's like getting a power play in hockey. You'll see the game change up with resulting shifts in momentum. 

I get why people would prefer pistols only Halo, it's arguably more "skillful" but to me it's just boring. 

Ideally the power items would have an element of skill to using them. Camo is interesting because you can utilize it in so many ways and you need to have patience and discipline. Overshield is just a one free death powerup basically. There's not much to it. 

I do agree the rockets in CE are OP. I think a sniper is a better power weapon because it requires skill. It's not just a couple free kills. You can kill the rocket guy if you're quick but let's be honest they usually have to mess up. This potential to mess up or get outplayed while using rockets does add to the momentum shifts I talked about above but it just seems a little too easy. Perhaps a faster, wider rocket projectile with less splash damage (so an emphasis on body shots, and requiring two rockets to kill via splash damage) would be more interesting.

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18 hours ago, Mr Grim said:

I'm pretty sure this got debunked. 

Why would we remove spread if it weren't true? 

Try to crossmap a guy in hang em repeatedly. There's significant spread at long range. Larry is right that pacing the shot doesn't do anything though. So it's not the same bloom as Reach. 

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15 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

I had to be a dick right there simply because a lot of the CE guys here say things “it wasn’t that easy on og” without realizing there’s a reason why it’s easier to aim. You’re going to aim better on higher FPS it’s a fact, and with a superior device(in this case controller) its a no brainer. Also 1ms 1080p monitors, compared to whatever you get on a cubed TV.

Sorry for the mobile triple post but goddamn I had to respond to this ignorance. Google "CRT vs LCD display lag" before talking out of your ass. 

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14 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

A game should be designed around the average audience, while having its competitiveness in the game. This is what many successful games have done. Basically competitive is the cream filling of a donut.

this is stupid on like 20 different levels and I don't know where to begin to address it.

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11 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

If it’s difficult to prove then it’s not a fact, becaus there’s just no way can you prove it. You just believe you can so until you can prove it, it’s an opinion pal.

Given the proper data I don't see any reason you couldn't "prove" it. The more competitive map/gametype should have a higher win-rate achievable by the best players against the opposing competition. Compare this to some other scenarios: something like a Rock, Paper, Scissors would have a relatively flat win vs. loss rate after a large enough sample size. On the other end the top Chess player will have a win rate approaching 100%. Since all Halos have some aspect of randomness to them, I prefer to equate them to other games of skill like poker. A highly nuanced game like Stud Hi/Lo probably has a higher skill gap than NL hold'em. This isn't to say NL Hold'em is a worse game or less exciting to watch, but the larger luck factor lowers the evens out the win/loss rate more so than some of its peers. This could be similarly said of the Midship vs. Chillout comparison. Chillout may be objectively more competitive (higher skill-gap), but subjectively may be worse for actual gameplay (stylistically) and spectating (please note I said subjectively, meaning opinions on these points will differ!).

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15 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Oh hells no are those cubed TVs instant. Maybe if you play on 480p. What we got now is responsive as fuk. 

You are so ignorant it actually hurts. Stop talking about shit you don’t know anything about. You know it. We damn sure know it. Just stop. It’s embarrassing.

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15 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Because when design a game for skilled players only it’s no longer fun. The utility weapon in halo has always been us skilled players weapon, and we dominate the lesser skilled people like it’s a profession. But you can’t design everything around that. You must do enough where it’s empowerin for those who are more skilled, but don’t push it too far. H5 is a clear example of pushing too far at least in regards to its movement. 

You think Halo 5 pushed the skill gap too far? We're on different wave lengths man. 

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