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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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7 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Projectile feels wack in Halo 3 because its not intuitive. You wouldn't expect to have to lead your shots in real life to the extent you have to with the BR in Halo 3. The Sniper Rifle has a bullet velocity of 1530 m/s, but you still have to lead your shots? There's not a map big enough in Halo 3 that any lead makes sense. 

The Battle Rifle isn't sub-sonic either, so its rounds are travelling faster than 343 m/s, so we'll ballpark 700-800 m/s, still fast enough that travel time is negligible considering the size of the maps in Halo 3.

The amount of lead you have to put on an enemy in during a 4v4 match on the maps is much more than one would intuitively expect. 

 

The Demoman example someone posted earlier is a good example of this, people are so accurate with the GL despite being projectile because it's what you'd expect, its intuitive. It makes sense that you have to put a significant amount of lead on someone, its a slow moving projectile and this makes sense and is super obvious. The H3 BR doesn't do this. It doesn't feel right to have to lead your shots, the range fights occur at mean that projectile travel time SHOULD be negligible. 

 

Sandtrap is the only map with long enough sight lines that make leading your shots make sense. For 4v4 gameplay, Hitscan is the way to go, because the range fights happen at in Halo 3 are too short and everyone moves so slow that leading anything makes 0 sense. In 8v8, Hitscan is still a better choice because maps are still not big enough to make it feel right. 

Agreed

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16 minutes ago, JordanB said:

That's annoying

No way dude all those pesky upvotes that really ruin life here on the forums. Even cults can't stand them.

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23 minutes ago, Teapot said:

No way dude all those pesky upvotes that really ruin life here on the forums. Even cults can't stand them.

Hey fellow beyond brother! I'm just here to let you know that this post seems to contain an overall negative tone. As someone simply trying to read my favorite forum, your post is really setting a bad precedent. Please refrain from using such passive aggressive tones from here on out. Thanks Spartan and see you on the battlefield!

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6 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Hey fellow beyond brother! I'm just here to let you know that this post seems to contain an overall negative tone. As someone simply trying to read my favorite forum, your post is really setting a bad precedent. Please refrain from using such passive aggressive tones from here on out. Thanks Spartan and see you on the battlefield!

thats a major yikes fam lmao. Its just an OPINION BRO lol like WOW. Big OOFs

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32 minutes ago, Teapot said:

No way dude all those pesky upvotes that really ruin life here on the forums. Even cults can't stand them.

Sarcastic and passive, this is NOT ok :pointing_hand_left::skin_tone_5: :rage:

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13 hours ago, S0UL FLAME said:

Halo 4 is better than Halo 3.

Don't you love getting neg-bombed without anyone saying shit to you, lmao. 

9 hours ago, ChieftaiNZ said:

Reminder that the Halo 4 BR was a 5sk when the game launched.

 

As bad and as frustrating as the Halo 3 BR is, by fucking god the 5sk BR was a god damn nightmare. 

How? It was in line with the DMR and LR of the time in terms of shots to kill and time to kill. Retained its "consistency" and ease of use. It was still viable, lol. Ten times better than how god-awful Halo 3's was. Better than its turned variant turned out to be.

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9 minutes ago, cH_ said:

Sarcastic and passive, this is NOT ok :pointing_hand_left::skin_tone-5: :rage:

 Lecturing on quake the forums like you have any experience let alone ability to beat outpost anyone is laughable.

This is actually fun no wonder it's so hard to stop.

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20 minutes ago, Teapot said:

thats a major yikes fam lmao. Its just an OPINION BRO lol like WOW. Big OOFs

Hey friend! Me again. I don't understand why you are being such a meany head. It seems everyone here is being civil and you are sending very passive aggressive responses. I'm gonna have to ask you to cool off a little and take a break from this site. This is not the kind of level headed civil conversation that this place deserves. Thank you for your understanding. 

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17 minutes ago, Teapot said:

 Lecturing on quake the forums like you have any experience let alone ability to beat outpost anyone is laughable.

This is actually fun no wonder it's so hard to stop.

Dude you can use backspace you dont have to cross things out we have the technology its been a long time since 2001. Also that sentence was awfully familiar do i need to contact my lawyer?

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16 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

When good quality content gets buried beneath pages of trolls and idiots arguing with eachother.

 

Never change TB  :simms:

Hey friendly beyonder! I noticed a hint of aggression in this post and would politely ask you to edit it and fix it. Name calling is not something that breeds healthy discussion. Please and thank you. 

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29 minutes ago, Squatting Bear said:

When good quality content gets buried beneath pages of trolls and idiots arguing with eachother.

 

Never change TB  :simms:

"good quality"

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It seems like the common ground on both sides of the debate is that lead only really makes sense at long distances because it's unintuitive and arguably random at close/medium ranges where most engagements take place. So why not use a system like the new Insurgency does? I haven't played it but I watched a video about it a while back, so anyone who is more familiar with the game, feel free to correct me on this. The way it works, as I recall, is that at most ranges, the game uses hitscan, but after a certain distance, you have to lead. This is indicated to the player by applying a slight blur effect to enemies who are out of hitscan range. The same effect could be achieved in Halo with the red reticle. In my opinion it's the best of both worlds, especially in a PC context where pure hitscan without recoil or spread is just going to make large maps extremely oppressive to play on (think Halo 4 Valhalla)

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Hitscan = registered shot as soon as you pull the trigger.  Would rather have projectile as it takes more skill.  No need for thrusters, sprint, ground pound, dash, jetpacks etc for people that want cod in their halo.  

Start with good physics and projectile weapons, and you have the start of a good FPS.

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18 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

That literally, is how projectile works.  You tell the game how fast the projectile should move, and it calculates that based on the tick rate. So if Halo 3 BR has a projectile speed of 180 units per tick, that means 180 units and closer the BR is htiscan; the bullets land on the same frame (or tick) that they're fired.  Developers just say "hitscan to a certain point" so people like beast and cH don't have a heart attack and freakout when they say "projectile".  Black Ops 4 did the same thing for the first time in CoD history, when they described the ballistics Von came out and said "Hey, the SMG's are hitscan at close range and then become projectile after a certain distance". Aka, dummy speak for fully projectile. They used projectile ballistics because when testing blackout they found that....

 

 

 

wait for it

 

 

 

 

hitscan was too easy for MKB and every single gun could cross map with ease without introducing random spread - which they circumvented by implementing fixed spray patters & projectile. Very very palpable skill ceiling when using hitscan, one that most people here would be hitting their head against.

Hey man I noticed you mentioned my name in an unprovoked personal attack. @mods we cannot allow this to keep happening. Please address this issue. 

Also clay and I would dominate you in any game regardless of the bullet physics. We just prefer hitscan and what it accomplishes. You see my sweet sweet child there is no universal measure or way to say one takes more skill than they other. Trying to quantify what is more skilled is impossible as there are so many factors at play. We simply prefer one system. 

Please stop attacking and being rude it's not very nice or Christian of you to do. Have a blessed day and don't forget that we will still beat you regardless of the weapon physics. Kisses. 

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Don't you love getting neg-bombed without anyone saying shit to you, lmao. 

How? It was in line with the DMR and LR of the time in terms of shots to kill and time to kill. Retained its "consistency" and ease of use. It was still viable, lol. Ten times better than how god-awful Halo 3's was. Better than its turned variant turned out to be.

You know, back when I first started playing H4 back in 2012, I had initially thought that the BR was a 4sk until someone pointed it out to me that it was actually a 5sk (to my disappointmentuntil the Turbo TU).

 

Why did I think that the H4 BR was a 4sk? Because H3's 4sk BR was so laughably inconsistent that it was at best a reliable 5sk as well, LMAO.

 

Just goes to show just how terrible the H3 BR is.

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22 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

That literally, is how projectile works.  You tell the game how fast the projectile should move, and it calculates that based on the tick rate. So if Halo 3 BR has a projectile speed of 180 units per tick, that means 180 units and closer the BR is htiscan; the bullets land on the same frame (or tick) that they're fired.  Developers just say "hitscan to a certain point" so people like beast and cH don't have a heart attack and freakout when they say "projectile".  Black Ops 4 did the same thing for the first time in CoD history, when they described the ballistics Von came out and said "Hey, the SMG's are hitscan at close range and then become projectile after a certain distance". Aka, dummy speak for fully projectile. They used projectile ballistics because when testing blackout they found that....

 

 

 

wait for it

 

 

 

 

hitscan was too easy for MKB and every single gun could cross map with ease without introducing random spread - which they circumvented by implementing fixed spray patters & projectile. Very very palpable skill ceiling when using hitscan, one that most people here would be hitting their head against.

Easy dude the only person having a heart attack is @Teapot when i rip his vape and beat him in a pistol 1v1 at beachlan

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22 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Hey man I noticed you mentioned my name in an unprovoked personal attack. @mods we cannot allow this to keep happening. Please address this issue. 

Also clay and I would dominate you in any game regardless of the bullet physics. We just prefer hitscan and what it accomplishes. You see my sweet sweet child there is no universal measure or way to say one takes more skill than they other. Trying to quantify what is more skilled is impossible as there are so many factors at play. We simply prefer one system. 

Please stop attacking and being rude it's not very nice or Christian of you to do. Have a blessed day and don't forget that we will still beat you regardless of the weapon physics. Kisses. 

1: How good you are at something is literally irrelevant to the subject matter.  It wouldn't matter if I was the worst player in the world, my reasoning is the same.

2: Claiming that your skill somehow validates your opinion is probably amusing until you realize that you're not even good enough at any game to make any sort of living off of it or compete. So how good are you really.

3: If I were to take that reasoning at face value I'd just find a much better player than you fairly easily and then differ to their opinion.

4: There absolutely is a way to quantify how skillful any given game is, you're basically defaulting to "that's your opinion". Pretty telling. Otherwise convince me that Mario Kart is a more competitively viable game than Unreal Tournament.

5: I'm always open to play some quake if you want to run a duel? Not many people I know play it anymore. If clay wants in you guys can 2v2 Xandrith and I.

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2 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

2: Claiming that your skill somehow validates your opinion is probably amusing until you realize that you're not even good enough at any game to make any sort of living off of it or compete. So how good are you really.

You know you can be amazing at a certain trait or hobby in your life and never pursue it professionally, right? Not a good metric.

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I guess I’ll take a break from this place until it’s less stupid. I don’t come here for this childish shit.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

You know you can be amazing at a certain trait or hobby in your life and never pursue it professionally, right? Not a good metric.

Of course I understand that, I think there's more intelligent people on this forum then there are in the bulk industry as well. I'm just addressing him at his own level.

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1 minute ago, TheIcePrincess said:

You know you can be amazing at a certain trait or hobby in your life and never pursue it professionally, right? Not a good metric.

I can be a great guitarist compared to everyone I know, but maybe my skill isn't actually good enough to be in a band and make money from it. So maybe it isn't did you choose to pursue it professionally, but rather you can't pursue it professionally.

Or maybe I'm just misunderstanding.

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