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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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1 hour ago, cH_ said:

im surprised no one has mentioned battlefield where its 100% projectile and often at long range just as much as close. there is nothing particularly difficult about projectile, and if we keep using the brain-dead example of a target moving in only one lateral direction with the shooter having to aim in front we can get an equally brain-dead assumption that more calculations = more skill.

You shoot in front of the guy. thats it. if he changes direction you start shooting in front again. if he changes direction a whole bunch of times, you just spam on either side and hope he walks into bullets that youre sending. This is where hitscan and projectile diverge in terms of mechanical ability and randomness. If the player you are targeting is moving randomly, the projectiles youre sending downrange are fucking random too. there is no trace aiming involved, you effectively can only send a cone of fire that he may or may not walk into versus you putting your "AiMeR" on target and actually making conscious shots. A great player can effectively trace aim the fuck out of you with hitscan, and his skill is more evident as the distance increases. the skillful player cannot manage random movement with projectile because in addition to other physics the rounds are delayed, its that simple. even better, you are practically guaranteed hits just by holding a static point and firing with an auto and having the guy run through your line.

all projectile does is ruin strafe vs strafe gunfights and add randomness for the sake of freedom of movement in open maps.

of course this best applies to FPS on PC and not on lmao console where games need literal soft aim hack for boomers to not rage and get up from the couch. 

First of all I don't even know if this post is serious, but assuming it is, the bold is where it falls apart. You quickly sweep movement under the rug as if it has nothing to do with how projectile is balanced, when it fact it has everything to do with how projectile is balanced. Your argument hinges on this idea of 'random movement' (whatever that means) and completely ignores how the projectile speed, rate of fire, shots to kill, movement speed, acceleration and movement capabilities (jumping, crouching, etc.) all play factors in how the system is balanced and how it plays and feels. All of these aspects can be, and have been in the past in CE, balanced in such a way in which the problems you mentioned can be made redundant whilst still adding the benefits that projectiles add, of course this balance can also be out of whack and present the problems you mentioned, but let's not pretend this is a simple open-and-shut case just because of the rather vague claim that 'moving randomly' makes shots hard to hit.

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18 minutes ago, Teapot said:

New debate spiraling out of control, same people. Guess anyone considered a top shot in CE is really just lucky. That's good to know and makes me feel better. It's nice to have an excuse after the games over so thanks guys. Actually I think when legend shoots he crosses his fingers and hopes for the best. That would certainly explain why the man gets so lucky so often

Who’s he

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8 minutes ago, Mow said:

First of all I don't even know if this post is serious, but assuming it is, the bold is where it falls apart. You quickly sweep movement under the rug as if it has nothing to do with how projectile is balanced, when it fact it has everything to do with how projectile is balanced. Your argument hinges on this idea of 'random movement' (whatever that means) and completely ignores how the projectile speed, rate of fire, shots to kill, movement speed, acceleration and capabilities (jumping, crouching, etc.) all play factors in how the system is balanced and how it plays and feels. All of these aspects can be, and have been in the past in CE, balanced in such a way in which the problems you mentioned can be made redundant whilst still adding the benefits that projectiles add, of course this balance can also be out of whack and present the problems you mentioned, but let's not pretend this is a simple open-and-shut case just because of the rather vague claim that 'moving randomly' makes shots hard to hit.

i quite literally made it very obvious that movement has everything to do with projectile being shit, i cant tell if youre actually this stupid or just pretending. Do you honestly not know that movement can be random? i mean if you cant understand water being wet i really have no idea what im doing responding to you

edit: me downvote you >:^(

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1 minute ago, cH_ said:

i quite literally made it very obvious that movement has everything to do with projectile being shit, i cant tell if youre actually this stupid or just pretending. Do you honestly not know that movement can be random? i mean if you cant understand water being wet i really have no idea what im doing responding to you

I think you may want to Google what R A N D O M means, also Google the Dunning-Kruger effect while you're at it. I've never seen someone so offended so fast because someone else disagreed with them on the internet, take a break.

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Just now, Mow said:

I think you may want to Google what R A N D O M means, also Google the Dunning-Kruger effect while you're at it. I've never seen someone so offended so fast because someone else disagreed with them on the internet, take a break.

r/iamverysmart

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21 minutes ago, cH_ said:

r/iamverysmart

Says the guy who doesn't know what random means, truly a genius.

Edit: Hmm, 4 negs withing 5 minutes of each other with no rebuttal to what I said, pretty interesting how hive minds will take you in when you agree with them, but as soon as you change your forum name and offer a different opinion the neg brigade kicks into action.

It's pretty clear that there's a group of people here that don't want any sort of real discussion about Halo... none ironically... on a Halo forum... so I'll simply stop posting in this kind of thread, which is a shame because I genuinely enjoy talking about Halo with like minded people.

 

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2 minutes ago, Mow said:

Says the guy who doesn't know what random means, truly a genius.

k dude haha

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11 minutes ago, cH_ said:

i quite literally made it very obvious that movement has everything to do with projectile being shit, i cant tell if youre actually this stupid or just pretending. Do you honestly not know that movement can be random? i mean if you cant understand water being wet i really have no idea what im doing responding to you

edit: me downvote you >:^(

Movement is pseudorandom. It seems random to you because you don’t have 100% accurate knowledge of what the other person is going to do. When you are playing does your character move in random directions or does your character move exactly where you tell it to? From the perspective of your opponent their is absolutely nothing random about movement. 

To take this argument even even further I would argue that humans tend to be creatures of habit and are highly predictable. (I could even argue they are 100% predictable but that’s an argument for a philosophy forum not a gaming forum.) Anyway, I would imagine you could train an A.I. to play against a human opponent over and over again and learn patterns in their movement and get much better at predicting it and landing shots even with some relatively low projectile speeds. If an A.I. program can do it than so can a human player (even if completely subconsciously) and if they can I don’t see why it shouldn’t be considered a skill and why it should t be rewarded.

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1 minute ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Movement is pseudorandom. It seems random to you because you don’t have 100% accurate knowledge of what the other person is going to do. When you are playing does your character move in random directions or does your character move exactly where you tell it to? From the perspective of your opponent their is absolutely nothing random about movement. 

To take this argument even even further I would argue that humans tend to be creatures of habit and are highly predictable. (I could even argue they are 100% predictable but that’s an argument for a philosophy forum not a gaming forum.) Anyway, I would imagine you could train an A.I. to play against a human opponent over and over again and learn patterns in their movement and get much better at predicting it and landing shots even with some relatively low projectile speeds. If an A.I. program can do it than so can a human player (even if completely subconsciously) and if they can I don’t see why it shouldn’t be considered a skill and why it should t be rewarded.

i am aware of the random vs unpredictable semantics and im also aware of how embarrassing it is for @Mowto feel like he thinks its relevant. the perspective of your opponent when actively trying to dodge shots isnt random, yes, but it is intentionally random to you the shooter which is the only factor that matters in that situation. Players have habits sure, but changing direction without any definite method or pattern is still random and impossible for humans to actively hit with projectile without resorting to spamming a cone of fire.

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35 minutes ago, cH_ said:

i quite literally made it very obvious that movement has everything to do with projectile being shit

 

3 minutes ago, cH_ said:

i am aware of the random vs unpredictable semantics and im also aware of how embarrassing it is for @Mowto feel like he thinks its relevant.

 

Like I said, Dunning-Kruger.

 

 

INB4 you have a mental breakdown.

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Welcome to the "I'm Trying Not to Make My High School Psychology Class Seem Like a Waste of Time" show. Today we'll be showing people that I'm aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect and know what it means.

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5 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> Believing that player movement direction cant be changed rapidly and without pattern

 

700.jpg

 

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tenor.gif?itemid=8061767

anyone else got that dumb shit to say

@thdyingbreed how about you wittle baby

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> Believing that players rapidly changing directions and not following a pattern that you're comfortable with equates to "random"

 

52063752_265283677730429_2830497240737428329_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com

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1 minute ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> Believing that players rapidly changing directions and not following a pattern that you're comfortable with equates to "random"

  

52063752_265283677730429_2830497240737428329_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com

"the perspective of your opponent when actively trying to dodge shots isnt random, yes, but it is intentionally random to you the shooter which is the only factor that matters in that situation"

this was posted a little earlier i think you missed it bud

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Should the range of a hitscan utility weapon be limited?  How should range-limiting be accomplished?

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9 minutes ago, HeX Reapers said:

Welcome to the "I'm Trying Not to Make My High School Psychology Class Seem Like a Waste of Time" show. Today we'll be showing people that I'm aware of the Dunning-Kruger effect and know what it means.

Imagine having to come up with some bizarre bullshit because you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation. Oh wait, that's you.

With that said, it's clear this place is way past its sell by date, maybe I'll come back if MCC PC starts popping and this place actually starts functioning as intended, you know, as a Halo forum and all... 

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1 minute ago, Mow said:

Imagine having to come up with some bizarre bullshit because you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation.

 

^^^ 

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I literally don't know what's going on at the moment. @cH_ the hell have you done???

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1 minute ago, Mow said:

Imagine having to come up with some bizarre bullshit because you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation. Oh wait, that's you.

With that said, it's clear this place is way past its sell by date, maybe I'll come back if MCC PC starts popping and this place actually starts functioning as intended, you know, as a Halo forum and all... 

What does your ideal Halo look like?

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6 minutes ago, cH_ said:

"the perspective of your opponent when actively trying to dodge shots isnt random, yes, but it is intentionally random to you the shooter which is the only factor that matters in that situation"

this was posted a little earlier i think you missed it bud

If your opponent is making (what they believe to be) a concerted effort to appear "random" in their movement, all that means is that their goal is to do anything that they think you would not expect them to do. Hence, they have a pattern. So no, it's not random.

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Just now, Larry Sizemore said:

If your opponent is making (what they believe) to be a concerted effort to appear "random" in their movement, all that means is that their goal is to do anything that they think you would not expect them to do. Hence, they have a pattern. So no, it's not random.

you wildin 

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3 minutes ago, Mow said:

Imagine having to come up with some bizarre bullshit because you don't have anything of substance to add to the conversation. Oh wait, that's you.

With that said, it's clear this place is way past its sell by date, maybe I'll come back if MCC PC starts popping and this place actually starts functioning as intended, you know, as a Halo forum and all... 

yeah you better run you little ant, i call that the scared baby effect.

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