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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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1 minute ago, arglactable said:

Wow. You're so edgy and smart. Maybe at some point, you'll actually address a real argument.

Says the guy, who in his reply, is deflecting instead of addressing the point.

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1 minute ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

I wanted to play for the sake of playing. And 60 still miles more playable than 100! And the pros in Cali are complaining of shot reg issues too, you hardly make sense when you’re fucking speaking and you’re calling me weird. 

Keep making excuses lol if you're playing 100 ping every game that's on you. It's hard to get called out when you have a back pocket excuse you're ready to whipout every single time. Mythik lives in Cali and he still performs at the top every game. Why is that? 

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What if I don't necessarily care which type of bullet physics are in the game?

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19 minutes ago, arglactable said:

Oh boy. Let's unpack some of this. I'm not even going to bother addressing the pointlessness of discussing "gun skill" in the context of console shooters that are inherently reliant in significant assist mechanics to be playable.

First and foremost, your entire position is built on the assumption that travel time inherently introduces skill, but what you are actually describing is adding a bunch of inconsistency to gun fights. This presupposition is at the core of every single assertion you have made. Every single time you talk about projectile properties, you equate it to skill as if this were some objective fact that doesn't require any explanation. You seem to think that adding tiny, difficult to control factors somehow guarantees to good players will account for them, when there is no real evidence to suggest that is the case at all.

I am going to explain exactly why that is reductive and largely inaccurate.

And a prime example in your mind was Snip3down snapping to people's backs with aim assist in an unranked super random Battle Royale hero shooter? LMAO. Pub stomping in that game has exactly nothing to do with projectiles being some secret ingredient to pure skill gameplay. Apex is not a hard game. Snipe3down's success (for what it's worth) has exactly nothing to do with PC players not being able to figure out how to aim slightly ahead of their targets like high IQ console gamers can.

So, let's talk about why this is more inconsistent than it is "skillful," particularly with CE magnum style projectiles (larger, slow projectiles are a bit different). This misconception is also at the core of why people believe CE gun fights are skillful despite the well documented fact that both spread and bullet magnetism are HUGE factors.

  1. Lead distance changes drastically based on distance to target.
  2. This is a video game, not real life. You do not have depth perception, so judging distance consistently is... not going to happen.
  3. Fast, small projectiles are difficult to track visually, and therefore actually KNOWING whether you were on target is very difficult.
  4. Without actually knowing where your projectile went reliable, you cannot consistently ADJUST in the future.

So, on top of adding travel time, you ALSO want to introduce tiny modifiers to bullet trajectory based on the player's movement vector AND modify bullet altitude based on distance? And you think that somehow good players are going to account for all of this bullshit on TOP OF hitting a small, moving target at a medium to long range? This notion that granularity is equivalent to precision and therefore inherently promotes skill is bizarrely common, but maybe I've just spent too much time talking to Halo CE purists. I assume that you have the DPI setting on your mouse set to the maximum.
 

No, this is not the difference. The difference is WHERE that "exact" point is can vary wildly based on a huge number of different factors and you have no guarantee that your target will continue moving in the same direction after you have fired. Meanwhile, with hit-scan, your target is exactly where you see it on the screen 100% of the time at the exact moment you pull the trigger. What you honestly think, and so seemingly do all of the people who believe Halo CE is the pinnacle of FPS gaming, is that good players are going to be performing ALL of this additional math in their heads in real time during every gun fight in the game?

"Hmm, yes. He is 15m away and moving to the left at 3 m/s meanwhile, I am moving right at 2 m/s which will sway my bullets a further 15 degrees to the right and..."

Give me a fucking break, dude. Literally the only evidence anyone has ever really provided for the limitless skill ceiling of CE gun fights is that even the best players in the world miss tons of shots. Hmmm. What does that sound like? Inconsistency. Oh no. This game that is literally unplayable without generous aim assist and giant console reticle bullet magnetism is all about GUN SKILL and sick projectile trigonometry. lmao.

What ACTUALLY happens in a gun fight at close to medium range with projectiles is that people aim in the center of the strafe and hope their opponent strafes back into the bullet. Oh, I should mention that I mean in games that don't have bullets that curve towards your target when your "aimer" is red.

With hit-scan, you can actually afford to think about their movement directly, because you have to be on target WHEN YOU PULL THE TRIGGER. You absolutely can dodge shots with hit-scan and "fast projectiles." What you are doing is throwing off their AIM. The difference between those two (hit-scan vs fast projectiles) is that ONE has, as you describe "2 to 3 frames" worth of variance, I mean, "skill." Inconsistency that you honestly believe someone like Snip3down is accounting for in his head.

Basically this entire post is trying to imply that the calculations for projectile leading is too incomprehensible to be possible. Which, obviously is not the case. No one sits there and calculates and consciously thinks about it like that, you just do it and eventually it becomes second nature. The nuance and degree to how you aim and counter aim is the skill, and an infinitely larger one than hitscan will ever be.  If it really was as ridiculous as you're making it out to be then then we wouldn't have videos of people using the sniper in Fortnite almost exclusively and getting kill, after kill, after kill on moving targets with projectile bullet drop and extremely small projectile sizes.  Everything you're implying is extremely disingenuous to make it seem like it's this unfathomable mental strain to pull off the simplest shot. When in reality it's more like a very small drop of instinct and thought into every single trigger pull and every moment of the game.

 

I brought up Apex because the entire sandbox is completely projectile, as more battle royale's are moving that way because hitscan is flat out too easy to use. Snipedown is good at using something like a wingman and you can literally see in every single shot of an encounter good players will have their aimer just a touch ahead of where the enemy is running, and then compensating for bullet drop at ranges.  That's what makes the difference.

 

Bringing up past Halo's generous bullet magnetism is literally irrelevant because the precedent of something existing has nothing to do with the principle of skill and whether or not projectiles enforce that. Just because it hasn't been done properly in Halo doesn't mean it isn't the correct answer. 

That being said, Halo CE's sandbox is better than anything that followed it; you're just hiding behind the tiny amount of natural spread that exists as a method of deflecting the difficulty that actually exists within every trigger pull of that game. I'd reckon if you modded CE to remove the spread (which has been done) it would be very obvious very quickly that it is still, the most difficult shooting to date on a console game.

15 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Adorable lmao. I've already addressed the issues with projectile over hitscan like 15 times you just don't want to listen. You literally said you know better than everyone already. It's a waste arguing with God's gift to the gaming industry I can't change your mind. 

H5 with all the shit aiming and all the magnetism still had enough of a skill gap to make Gods gift goose. LMAO. 

Hey it's cool tho I bet I do suck. Maybe we can all match sometime and see the egoes all go away. I already know a good chunk of the people here have gotten mopped before so I'm really not too worried. Haha oh wait I'm pretty sure I've already been in your lobbies. I wonder how those went...

 

10 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

LOL we literally stomped all you forge weirdos on your own maps. 

You've spent your last dozen posts blatantly just being insulting.  If your inability/unwillingness to actually carry a pretty straight forward string of logic wasn't enough to show any holes in your stance then your behavior does.

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Just now, My Namez BEAST said:

Keep making excuses lol if you're playing 100 ping every game that's on you. It's hard to get called out when you have a back pocket excuse you're ready to whipout every single time. Mythik lives in Cali and he still performs at the top every game. Why is that? 

I can shit on him easily, and I still dominate in this game Moron! I’m making the point it’s why I  say shit like “where my bullets to?” Its a common phrase people say all the time. 

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Just now, Mr Grim said:

What if I don't necessarily care which type of bullet physics are in the game?

Heresy.

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1 minute ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

I can shit on him easily, and I still dominate in this game Moron! I’m making the point it’s why I  say shit like “where my bullets to?” Its a common phrase people say all the time. 

You're delusional. 

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1 minute ago, Xandrith said:

Says the guy, who in his reply, is deflecting instead of addressing the point.

It's not a point. It doesn't rebut what I said at all. Yes, better players who grind a game will be MORE consistent. Shocker. That's true of anything. Please point to where I said otherwise.

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Just now, Fixaimingsorry said:

And you’re an idiot what’s new? 

Says the man on his 15th account lol. Loom dude we played some random mm games with you goofing off. Because you messaged me to play. Nowyou have a weird ego and are saying you're better than everyone. Then you say your internet is too bad to perform well and that's why you had some struggle games (no one cares it was random mm but you mentioned stats). Then you say you'll shit on someone that consistently outperformed you. Then you mention internet again. Idek what you want dude. What are you even trying to prove? That you're a God that's just being hampered by internet? What do you want? 

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9 minutes ago, arglactable said:

It's not a point. It doesn't rebut what I said at all. Yes, better players who grind a game will be MORE consistent. Shocker. That's true of anything. Please point to where I said otherwise.

Not saying you said otherwise. What you said was that snipedown wasn’t making these calculations consciously while playing and implying that it was therefore somehow more random or luck based. I was pointing out that this isn’t the case. He IS making those calculations just not consciously. In fact that’s probably what separates people like him from average players. If you have to consciously remind yourself to account for travel time and bullet drop with every pull of the trigger you’ve already lost the fight to someone who is just putting the reticle where it needs to be without thought and pulling the trigger.

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4 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Sorry God please forgive me

So this is the second jest you've made regarding my past post. I brought up my faith that one time because I felt like it was important to be transparent considering all the things going on in my life at that point. It was just an act of openness. It gets thrown in my face a lot here, but honestly it doesn't bother me whatsoever and it's an insult I'm happy to take because I know what I believe.

 

You're welcome to be as spiteful and snarky as you want on this forum regarding my beliefs and convictions but here's the situation at the end of the day- I was given a ludicrous opportunity at a studio that my resume should not have granted me at the time. I was the youngest Treyarch hire ever. That was a blessing.  Since then I had one issue with 343, that ended up manifesting itself into 100 other blessings. It hasn't even been 3 years in the game industry (which is lucratively difficult to get into) and I'm basically at the point where I could get into any studio because of my work and reputation - no questions asked.. thanks to being a forge weirdo, right. THAT is a blessing. I spent the last week in California touring a handful of large and small studios that all had an offer for me. If I don't take it now, I'm always able to take it later. I make a lot more money than I probably should.  And every day I get closer and closer to something that literally for years now I've been consistently told is not possible.  Those are all huge blessings. And I'm 23.

 

I dunno man, if I saw someone else that had the amount of luck I had I'd be asking them for their secret. Not mocking them for sharing it. But you do you, see how far it takes you.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Says the man on his 15th account lol. Loom dude we played some random mm games with you goofing off. Because you messaged me to play. Nowyou have a weird ego and are saying you're better than everyone. Then you say your internet is too bad to perform well and that's why you had some struggle games (no one cares it was random mm but you mentioned stats). Then you say you'll shit on someone that consistently outperformed you. Then you mention internet again. Idek what you want dude. What are you even trying to prove? That you're a God that's just being hampered by internet? What do you want? 

15th account because people don’t like the fact I tell them to go fuck themselves on the average 😅. It’s a bad habit I know. 

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6 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

So this is the second jest you've made regarding my past post. I brought up my faith that one time because I felt like it was important to be transparent considering all the things going on in my life at that point. It was just an act of openness. It gets thrown in my face a lot here, but honestly it doesn't bother me whatsoever and it's an insult I'm happy to take because I know what I believe.

 

You're welcome to be as spiteful and snarky as you want on this forum regarding my beliefs and convictions but here's the situation at the end of the day- I was given a ludicrous opportunity at a studio that my resume should not have granted me at the time. I was the youngest Treyarch hire ever. That was a blessing.  Since then I had one issue with 343, that ended up manifesting itself into 100 other blessings. It hasn't even been 3 years in the game industry (which is lucratively difficult to get into) and I'm basically at the point where I could get into any studio because of my work and reputation - no questions asked.. thanks to being a forge weirdo, right. THAT is a blessing. I spent the last week in California touring a handful of large and small studios that all had an offer for me. If I don't take it now, I'm always able to take it later. I make a lot more money than I probably should.  And every day I get closer and closer to something that literally for years now I've been consistently told is not possible.  Those are all huge blessings. And I'm 23.

 

I dunno man, if I saw someone else that had the amount of luck I had I'd be asking them for their secret. Not mocking them for sharing it. But you do you, see how far it takes you.

 

 

That’s actually really good man. And tbh you’re most likely hired because you’re really good at programming. Although I’d bet it’s also to do with map knowledge. You’re not exactly the guy someone would want a multiplayer team because you’re against common mechanics like hit markers for example. 

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3 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Yikes I don't want your story dude 

No but you want to mock it without any understanding. The life of a bitter internet troll is a convenient one for sure.

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1 minute ago, MultiLockOn said:

No but you want to mock it without any understanding. The life of a bitter internet troll is a convenient one for sure.

Hate jumping in, but the comment wasn't literal. "God's gift" had nothing to do with actual faith. More so a figure of speech. 

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2 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

That’s actually really good man. And tbh you’re most likely hired because you’re really good at programming. Although I’d bet it’s also to do with map knowledge. You’re not exactly the guy someone would want a multiplayer team because you’re against common mechanics like hit markers for example. 

I've done just as much as game design related development as I have map development, at the end of the day they are the same exact thing at the root. It all comes down to the same principles of integrity, skill, approachability, depth, etc. And maybe I'm exactly the person you want on your team because I'm against those things :)

 

Not a programmer at all though. Just raw design stuff.

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Just now, TheIcePrincess said:

Hate jumping in, but the comment wasn't literal. "God's gift" had nothing to do with actual faith. More so a figure of speech. 

No it was another poke just like his earlier comment of God's gift to the industry, referring to an older post I made about my faith bringing me to where I am now.

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4 minutes ago, MultiLockOn said:

No but you want to mock it without any understanding. The life of a bitter internet troll is a convenient one for sure.

I'm mocking your massive ego you weirdo. You literally went on a tirade calling yourself GODS GIFT TO GAMING. That's all the context I need. I don't give a fuck what you believe. No one is bitter. That's your ego speaking again. Nothing I said had anything to do with your faith. It's everything to do with you. 

And if we REALLY WANNA get all preachy what you are doing is the literal opposite of what a Christian should be doing. Bragging about shit and pretending to be humble. Not very godly homie. 

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45 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

What if I don't necessarily care which type of bullet physics are in the game?

Then you're casual. And can most likely enjoy a great life where anything pleases you.

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