Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

Just now, Arftacular said:

At a high-level they are bad. Most pros or people who are good at the game would say the same thing.

Are they fun? Yes. Competitive? No. 

Yes, but that’s only because we didn’t know back then what we know now.  We don’t know how 4v4 CE would really play out competitively on LAN because for the most part it’s been broken MCC fuckery that we are basing our opinions on.  Problem is that at a LAN, we been playing 2s for so damn long that it’s hard for anyone to want to play 4s to even test Hardway’s theory.

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I think H1 4's at a high level is, for the most part uncharted territory, knowing what we know now about the game. There are things you can do to manage the chaos and overcome disadvantages. The simple act of consciously spreading out will do wonders for your team in TS. Knowing when you're last alive and standing on a random can literally save your team 15 deaths. All the grenade tricks that are common now but weren't back then are game changers too.

It's just very, very different. And unfortunately, the meta will probably never develop again. Hell, it'll probably never even reach where it was in 2004. It's not like people are watching those VODs and learning those strats. You're just not going to get 8 good people playing against each other often enough to see how the game can evolve in 2019. And that sucks, because I think it could be pretty awesome, in ways people probably can't picture right now, especially if you're not well versed in your H1 game knowledge (I'm not talking about Arftacular, he's a hell of a player). 

Things like spawn control are difficult in 4v4, but they're not impossible, so they can be learned. But the thing with H1 players is that they're complete shit at communication for the most part, since they're used to splitscreening and not needing to say much. And managing spawns well in 4v4 is extremely communication intensive.

I'd like to see 4v4 be in a state that could be considered competitive at a high level. And I appreciate the props. I appreciate that.

I think 4s would require some spawn reworks, maybe some weapon spawn timings on certain maps, and more maps added to the pool that play similarly to BC or Dere with good spawns.

 

  • Like (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I hate coming back after a hiatus. It's like I re-entered pre-Reach Bungie.net.

giphy.gif

 

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, WARGOD said:

Yes, but that’s only because we didn’t know back then what we know now.  We don’t know how 4v4 CE would really play out competitively on LAN because for the most part it’s been broken MCC fuckery that we are basing our opinions on.  Problem is that at a LAN, we been playing 2s for so damn long that it’s hard for anyone to want to play 4s to even test Hardway’s theory.

Fair point.

Even 4s on LAN back in the day didn't play well with the hardware limitations (Xbox framerates and 4 player split). If the next iteration of CE worked well then I'd be all eyes/ears for a competitive 4v4 approach. But that'll also never happen most likely. The community moved away from 4s to 2s when 4v4s were still commonly played -- for good reason too.

Share this post


Link to post

But does it really need spawn reworks if a team can develop enough good communication to do coordinated randoms?  Why should a team be rewarded with spawning a guy behind another team if the team getting spawn fucked didn’t earn their way out of a spawn fuck by putting in the effort to stand on the right damn spot?

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

By all means, invite all these "people who are good at the game" you know of to come here and say that CE 4's are objectively bad. 

All these people you know. 

At the end of the day, you don't know what you're talking about. The last thing I'd do is invite anyone I considered a friend to debate with your simple ass regarding a game you don't understand, LOL. Nice try though. 

You can barely comprehend what my argument is and have to inject a lot of shit that doesn't even tangentially relate to what I'm talking about. 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, WARGOD said:

But does it really need spawn reworks if a team can develop enough good communication to do coordinated randoms?  Why should a team be rewarded with spawning a guy behind another team if the team getting spawn fucked didn’t earn their way out of a spawn fuck by putting in the effort to stand on the right damn spot?

I'm more talking about initial neutral spawns at the start of the map. I don't think changing randoms or the way the system works past the opening spawn would be a good idea. I'd more just like to see it tested so you can neutralize the opening spawn advantage/disadvantage on certain maps.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Arftacular said:

At the end of the day, you don't know what you're talking about. The last thing I'd do is invite anyone I considered a friend to debate with your simple ass regarding a game you don't understand, LOL. Nice try though. 

You can barely comprehend what my argument is and have to inject a lot of shit that doesn't even tangentially relate to what I'm talking about. 

Not a single person in this thread or probably in the known universe disagrees with the assumption that CE 2's are superior to CE 4's.

The idea that CE 4's are a dumpster fire is one I'm pretty sure you're alone in. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Cursed Lemon said:

Not a single person in this thread or probably in the known universe disagrees with the assumption that CE 2's are superior to CE 4's .

The idea that CE 4's are a dumpster fire is one I'm pretty sure you're alone in. 

I said they're uncompetitive. Stop putting words in my mouth to prove your shitball points.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

Fair point.

Even 4s on LAN back in the day didn't play well with the hardware limitations (Xbox framerates and 4 player split). If the next iteration of CE worked well then I'd be all eyes/ears for a competitive 4v4 approach. But that'll also never happen most likely. The community moved away from 4s to 2s when 4v4s were still commonly played -- for good reason too.

Yes, until the game is fixed we can’t even begin to enjoy 4v4 competitively.  Hardway has the ears of someone at 343 that can fix it, but it’s very political.  

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, WARGOD said:

Yes, until the game is fixed we can’t even begin to enjoy 4v4 competitively.  Hardway has the ears of someone at 343 that can fix it, but it’s very political.  

I'm in full agreement. Hopefully something gets across. Most CE players play 4v4s it seems. So I hope they make it better for their sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Arftacular said:

I said they're uncompetitive Stop putting words in my mouth to prove your shitball points.

Competitiveness is a spectrum, not an either/or you shit-for-brains. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Fire (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

I'm more talking about initial neutral spawns at the start of the map. I don't think changing randoms or the way the system works past the opening spawn would be a good idea. I'd more just like to see it tested so you can neutralize the opening spawn advantage/disadvantage on certain maps.

Start spawns can definitely use a rework in 4s.  

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Competitiveness is a spectrum, not an either/or you shit-for-brains. 

Halo 1 4v4s with equal skilled people on both teams are not competitive. The best team will not always win. That = not competitive. Thanks for playing.

 

Also you commenting on anyone's intelligence is absolutely rich. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

Halo 1 4v4s with equal skilled people on both teams are not competitive. The best team will not always win. That = not competitive. Thanks for playing.

You have absolutely zero way to quantify that and you know it, bullshitter. 

Also who the fuck is the "better team" between two equally skilled teams

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Arftacular said:

Halo 1 4v4s with equal skilled people on both teams are not competitive. The best team will not always win. That = not competitive. Thanks for playing.

 

Also you commenting on anyone's intelligence is absolutely rich. LOL

Bro it's all pointless man. Most people here don't really even play that much. And of the ones that do most don't even grind out high level or comp shit. I mean we have a 40 year old that talks like a manbaby that's too scared to post his tag. A lot of shit here is weird talk. The amount of people here were the same people talking like they knew everything about H5 while sitting pretty at gold ranks and grinding BRB. Don't waste your energy lmao. 

Share this post


Link to post

Imagine if that shit ever gets figured out (4v4 force spawns and randoms along with the game being fixed) You’d have coordinated nades blowing shit to or near your teammates that are coming back on respawn.  The team cordination would be insane.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

You have absolutely zero way to quantify that and you know it, bullshitter. 

Also who the fuck is the "better team" between two equally skilled teams

Competitive versus non competitive is a qualitative statement, genius. So you’re right. It’s hard to quantify a qualitative statement. At no point did I attempt to do as such. Great catch. 

 

Also, if I went out of my way to call out “best team”, then that probably means I wasn’t referring to a skill equality. 

 

Use your noodle, you goof. 

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Bro it's all pointless man. Most people here don't really even play that much. And of the ones that do most don't even grind out high level or comp shit. I mean we have a 40 year old that talks like a manbaby that's too scared to post his tag. A lot of shit here is weird talk. The amount of people here were the same people talking like they knew everything about H5 while sitting pretty at gold ranks and grinding BRB. Don't waste your energy lmao. 

Wargod at least understands what I’m getting at, I think. I’m appreciative of that. But yeah, this is a major waste of time. I let Lemon derail me with nonsense. 

 

I’ll let him have fun with his next reply but I think I’m done here. LOL. It’s like trying to explain economics to a kangaroo. 

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Arftacular said:

Competitive versus non competitive is a qualitative statement, genius. So you’re right. It’s hard to quantify a qualitative statement. At no point did I attempt to do as such. Great catch.

They're effectively synonyms here, you petty child, but alright.

You can't qualify it either. 

 

  • Toxic (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

They're effectively synonyms here, you petty child, but alright.

You can't qualify it either. 

 

Right. Because words have definitions and words mean things. So in order to get your point across, use the appropriate word that means the appropriate thing you're trying to convey. I won't quantify a qualitative statement. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post

Between this thread, that broad in Ogre 2's stream who won't shut the fuck up, and Ogre 2 himself with that annoying "they just don't care maaaaan" vocal fry, I'm starting to think Morton Salt should open up a plant in the MCC social games menu.

  • Like (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

High-level CE 4's is a blast but if money was on the line it would probably be a nightmare. Breaking setups with the spawn system is a pain to deal with because there are too many spawns to cover and effectively run certain maps like hangem (blue pistol spawns from red floor below right before a low camo spawn come to mind). There's more precise control over watching spawns when there are half the players in the game (slower respawn rate of opponents). Initial spawns can be rough on maps like pris/hangem/dere because it is so expensive score-wise so early in the game to obtain map control when the starting conditions favored the other team. Magnum starts would be excellent as mentioned above. CTF games are nearly out of the question on dammy/hangem because green room and blue base respectively are far superior to the opponent's. Giving randoms is still a viable albeit lower percentage strategy but it's hard for me to determine what the game favors when dishing them out. It would be more fair to maybe balance poor control points by placing intentional random spawns in them.

If I knew H1 back in the day like I do now, these are the types of things I would have hoped for when H2 was under development. Sensible additions to existing mechanics to improve the player experience. Instead we got dual-wielding and inferior weaponry. There are a lot of interesting changes that could have been explored with H1's meta but it was all thrown out with no explanation.

  • Like (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Just agree to disagree guys, this conversation is starting to get near h5 level fuckery.   

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.