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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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21 hours ago, Arftacular said:

This conversation isn't exactly hard to follow. 

Hard Way says if you play in a full party then you deserve to have people quit out against you.

You say no one is complaining about having a full squad and quitting.

I say Ogre 2 and his wife were playing. I was probably trying to prove the point that someone with a full squad had trouble keeping people in games.

So it is implied that I'm talking about a full squad versus others in the playlist.

SO YES, I AM USING AN EXAMPLE ABOUT FULL SQUADS PLAYING OTHER PEOPLE IN THE HALO 1 SOCIAL 4v4 PLAYLIST.

I’m still getting caught up on the thread, but I wanted to address this. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. I don’t know know if you have actual reading comprehension problems, or if you just want to villanize me, but either way, this is wrong.

I didn’t say you DESERVE to have people quit on you with a full party. I said that it almost definitely will happen. So be a fucking grown up and acknowledge the reality you live in, and do something about it. If you absolutely must search with a full team in the biggest knowledge-gap game in the series, then uncheck slayer or stfu. Doing anything otherwise is just delusional, self-centered bitching. Tell me Im wrong.

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8 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I’m still getting caught up on the thread, but I wanted to address this. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. I don’t know know if you have actual reading comprehension problems, or if you just want to villanize me, but either way, this is wrong.

I didn’t say you DESERVE to have people quit on you with a full party. I said that it almost definitely will happen. So be a fucking grown up and acknowledge the reality you live in, and do something about it. If you absolutely must search with a full team in the biggest knowledge-gap game in the series, then uncheck slayer or stfu. Doing anything otherwise is just delusional, self-centered bitching. Tell me Im wrong.

Yeah, huge leap from what you said.

That’s crux of the problem, you moron. Matchmaking NEEDS TO BE FIXED BEFORE KILL LIMITS OR GAMETYPES ARE EDITED. FIX THE QUALITY OF THE MATCHMAKING FIRST, THEN CHANGE GAMETYPES. I’m not engaging with this point in particular anymore because you can’t see the forest for the trees. 

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4 hours ago, Arftacular said:

Expanding on this since I have more time.

You realize I could make equivalent arguments against every game in the series that are way more damning, right? 

There is no Lockout Slayer in CE 4's. 

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3 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

Yeah, huge leap from what you said.

That’s crux of the problem, you moron. Matchmaking NEEDS TO BE FIXED BEFORE KILL LIMITS OR GAMETYPES ARE EDITED. FIX THE QUALITY OF THE MATCHMAKING FIRST, THEN CHANGE GAMETYPES. I’m not engaging with this point in particular anymore because you can’t see the forest for the trees. 

How do you feel about playing H2 4v4 TS to 25? After all, someone might quit...

Also, let’s all keep ignoring the big picture that the vast majority of H1 4v4 TS games now feel like a real game of Halo instead of a Happy Meal.

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Just now, Cursed Lemon said:

You realize I could make equivalent arguments against every game in the series that are way more damning, right? 

There is no Lockout Slayer in CE 4's. 

I’m not talking about other games. What does this have to do with anything I said?

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5 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

How do you feel about playing H2 4v4 TS to 25? After all, someone might quit...

Also, let’s all keep ignoring the big picture that the vast majority of H1 4v4 TS games now feel like a real game of Halo instead of a Happy Meal.

I think we’re just on completely different pages. I have no issue with a 75 kill limit game when matchmaking has been fixed to not punish secondary quitters. The fact that the matchmaking is in such a bad state makes these games last UNNECESSARILY LONG. I played five games last night (3 Dammy games in a row, a RR, and a Derelict). All three Dammy games had quitters and time expired each game. 60% of my games were an enormous waste of time. Small sample, but I’m not spending more time playing that garbage. This is solo searching btw. Watching Prettycprincess and Ogre2 play had very similar experiences. Granted they were full party and I was soloQ. They also stopped playing out of frustration  

I’m glad you’re having a great time in the playlist but it’s not indicative of what I’ve experienced, the streamers I’ve seen experienced, or people I play with regularly have experienced. 

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Just now, Arftacular said:

I think we’re just on completely different pages. I have no issue with a 75 kill limit game when matchmaking has been fixed to not punish secondary quitters. The fact that the matchmaking is in such a bad state makes these games last UNNECESSARILY LONG. I played five games last night (3 Dammy games in a row, a RR, and a Derelict). All three Dammy games had quitters and time expired each game. 60% of my games were an enormous waste of time. Small sample, but I’m not spending more time playing that garbage. This is solo searching btw. Watching Prettycprincess and Ogre2 play had very similar experiences. Granted they were full party and I was soloQ. They also stopped playing out of frustration  

I’m glad you’re having a great time in the playlist but it’s not indicative of what I’ve experienced, the streamers I’ve seen experienced, or people I play with regularly have experienced. 

I'm making a stink about quit penalties in Reclaimers. It DOES need to be fixed. I hope I'm not coming across as oblivious to that. I have it happen to me all the time too, and it sucks.

The first quitter should get wrecked by the ban. The next guy half as much. After that, it should be penalty free. The game is already bullshit at that point. And rolling search needs to die. That's a breeding ground for AFK.

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Just now, Hard Way said:

I'm making a stink about quit penalties in Reclaimers. It DOES need to be fixed. I hope I'm not coming across as oblivious to that. I have it happen to me all the time too, and it sucks.

The first quitter should get wrecked by the ban. The next guy half as much. After that, it should be penalty free. The game is already bullshit at that point. And rolling search needs to die. That's a breeding ground for AFK.

I’m glad you’re an active voice. You have more patience than I do regarding that. And I like the proposed fix to the quit penalty. We have to start somewhere. The current ecosystem is less than ideal. 

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29 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

I’m not talking about other games. What does this have to do with anything I said?

Then what exactly is your metric for calling CE 4's trash if they are, at worst, just as good as 4's in other Halo games? 

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4 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Then what exactly is your metric for calling CE 4's trash if they are, at worst, just as good as 4's in other Halo games? 

... I said they’re trash in comparison to 2s. Not other Halo 4v4s. I don’t give a shit about other Halo games because frankly, I didn’t enjoy them. Did I refer to any other Halo by accident somewhere?

 

My “metrics” (read: reasoning) were the explanation I wrote in the post you quoted. What exactly do you think I’m arguing here? 2s are also the competitive standard in CE. It’s not like that in other Halos. 

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6 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

This is pure ignorance.  Going to or competing in a LAN certainty gives you more experience and more authority on what's actually going on in these games.  You're arguing with people who literally have more real world Halo experience than you.

 

People that say this have usually never once played against anyone who knows how to strafe in sweaty FFA or 4v4 lobbies.  It isn't as easy as many outsiders think it is.  Granted shooting in H2 may be easier when compared to CE or H3, but it is still leagues more difficult than H4, Reach, H2A, etc.

 

 

I went to Beach LAN. H2 is silly and everyone who talks like an elitest about h2 got clapped on CE.

 

I went to an event so therefore real world halo experience(lol) says it's true.

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1 minute ago, Arftacular said:

... I said they’re trash in comparison to 2s. Not other Halo 4v4s. I don’t give a shit about other Halo games because frankly, I didn’t enjoy them. 

 

My “metrics” (read: reasoning) were the explanation I wrote in the post you quoted. What exactly do you think I’m arguing here? 2s are also the competitive standard in CE. It’s not like that in other Halos. 

Then your assessment is insanely hyperbolic. H2's aim assist was a far, far greater detriment to the game than CE's spawn system in 4's, and H2 still played like a shooter where the better team won. Yes CE 4's are chaotic, that does not mean they're not competitive. 

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It's not impossible to random in 4's, especially on 4-way split, especially in obj games. If anything, you could argue that giving random spawns is pretty fucking skillful in 4's, given the level of coordination you need to have. Keep in mind, as both Walshy and Ghandi said repeatedly at UGC St Louis, randoms were not nearly as big a part of the game back then as they are now. High level 4v4 with good communication would see all sorts of coordinated randoms nowadays.

I wish H1 had H5's kill feed. That would help immensely with randoming in 4v4.

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15 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

Then your assessment is insanely hyperbolic. H2's aim assist was a far, far greater detriment to the game than CE's spawn system in 4's, and H2 still played like a shooter where the better team won. Yes CE 4's are chaotic, that does not mean they're not competitive. 

I’m only talking about Halo 1. I don’t care about any other Halos because I don’t play them. They (CE 4s, slayer mostly) aren’t competitive compared to 2s, in my opinion. I gave pretty good examples, again IMO, in the previous post. Read it again with the assumptions listed as well through the lens that I’m talking about HALO COMBAT EVOLVED 4V4S AND HALO COMBAT EVOLVED 2V2S. Also, I took TTK into consideration as well as map pool. Not just the spawn system. Stop cherry picking random points and comparing against games I’m not referring to.  

 

To @Hard Way‘s point, it is skillful in a coordination sense, sure. I’ll agree to that.  However it’s unlikely to have an effect unless the other team fucks something up. Not saying it’s impossible, but it is unlikely. Thats been my experience. Again, every example I’ve given is assumed to be with similarly skilled teams. 

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12 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

I’m only talking about Halo 1. I don’t care about any other Halos because I don’t play them. They (CE 4s, slayer mostly) aren’t competitive compared to 2s, in my opinion. I gave pretty good examples, again IMO, in the previous post. Read it again with the assumptions listed as well through the lens that I’m talking about HALO COMBAT EVOLVED 4V4S AND HALO COMBAT EVOLVED 2V2S. Also, I took TTK into consideration as well as map pool. Not just the spawn system. Stop cherry picking random points and comparing against games I’m not referring to.  

The spawn system is by far the worst thing about CE 4's, but it does not make the game unplayable nor is it even remotely the worst characteristic about a Halo game we've ever had to deal with. Once again, just because they're not as good as 2's does not mean they're not competitive. Your point about the maps is moot, CE has some of the best maps in the entire franchise. 

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8 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

The spawn system is by far the worst thing about CE 4's, but it does not make the game unplayable nor is it even remotely the worst characteristic about a Halo game we've ever had to deal with. Once again, just because they're not as good as 2's does not mean they're not competitive. Your point about the maps is moot, CE has some of the best maps in the entire franchise. 

Best maps for 2s, yes. Best maps for 4s? Nah, fam. 

 

Again, I’m not attributing the spawn system to be the sole driver of the 4s complaint. I’m also not comparing this issue to any other Halo game in any sort of context. 

 

Christ, man. 

 

Also, when was the last time anyone watched 8 good, high-level people play competitive 4s in CE? 

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Just now, Arftacular said:

Best maps for 2s, yes. Best maps for 4s? Nah, fam. 

I thought you didn't play other Halos

Quote

Again, I’m not attributing the spawn system to be the sole driver of the 4s complaint.

Uh well that's weird, because it is the main driver of CE's 4v4 woes. 

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6 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

I thought you didn't play other Halos

Uh well that's weird, because it is the main driver of CE's 4v4 woes. 

I played them. I don’t currently play them. I haven’t ever said I didn’t play any other title, lol. Good god. I played Halo 2 competitively (top 32 FFA once upon a time) and hit 50 in H3’s MLG playlist soloQing. So, yeah, I have some idea of what I’m talking about.

 

I don’t play them NOW because I don’t have to  

 

Also, other factors add to the woes of the spawn system. Exactly why I said — wait for it — it’s not the SOLE reason. 

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5 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

I played them. I don’t currently play them. I haven’t ever said I didn’t play any other title, lol. Good god. I played Halo 2 competitively (top 32 FFA once upon a time) and hit 50 in H3’s MLG playlist soloQing. So, yeah, I have some idea of what I’m talking about.

 

I don’t play them NOW because I don’t have to  

 

Also, other factors add to the woes of the spawn system. Exactly why I said — wait for it — it’s not the SOLE reason. 

If the TTK and the maps are good in literally every other facet except for when players spawn, then that's a problem solely with the spawn system, not the TTK or the maps. 

Also a crippled cripple could hit 50 in H3 

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3 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Well I guess that would come down to your opinion.  And in this case, I'll take mine over yours.  


You can't really dodge bursts in 343's games like you can in H2C.  

It's not really a matter of opinion, lol. Halo 2 isn't leagues harder than any of the later Halo games, and in its own way is actually easier given locking on to someone is easier with a wider reticle compared to a smaller one, even IF it lacks bullet mag that later ones do. The fact people aren't able to dodge is mostly just a matter of strafes sucking, which is more prevalent in some games than others.

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12 minutes ago, Cursed Lemon said:

If the TTK and the maps are good in literally every other facet except for when players spawn, then that's a problem solely with the spawn system, not the TTK or the maps. 

Also a crippled cripple could hit 50 in H3 

In the MLG playlist? Nah. You saying that tells me all I need to know, lol. 

In order to understand an issue, you must be able to process multiple ideas at the same time. Tough, I know.

TTK is not an issue outside of 4s. It is an issue INSIDE of 4s coupled with the spawn system and being able to bounce back from a spawn trap. Spawns (and the options of where to spawn) are dependent, on you guessed it, what map you're playing on.

Something tells me you haven't played a lot of CE.

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2v2s and 4v4s in Halo CE play fundamentally different than each other. If you can't understand that or don't know that, then please stop arguing with me because, as it stands, you appear to have no idea what you're talking about concerning high-level nuances of the game. @Cursed Lemon

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13 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

It's not really a matter of opinion, lol. Halo 2 isn't leagues harder than any of the later Halo games, and in its own way is actually easier given locking on to someone is easier with a wider reticle compared to a smaller one, even IF it lacks bullet mag that later ones do. The fact people aren't able to dodge is mostly just a matter of strafes sucking, which is more prevalent in some games than others.

Sometimes the shit you manage to talk yourself into is astounding.

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