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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Little bummed that they can't touch CE yet, but I'll still have fun playing the games

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5 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Make the Covenant evil and sadistic and scary. Bring back mass amounts of blood. Get creative with the gore. I wanna see visor-cracking headshots that leave brain matter on the wall behind them. Rocket kills should send limbs flying. Shotgun kills should leave a basketball-sized hole in their torso. Sword kills should leave deep gashes. Sniper headshots should decapitate. This shit would get people talking about Halo again. It works for Gears of War...

I don't care if I'm the only campaign guy here, nothing will ever be more satisfying than grenading a bunch of jackals in Halo 1 and watching a wave of purple blood coat the walls.

That said I think too much gore is distracting. You go that route, you risk becoming a wannabe Mortal Kombat. I'd probably save it for specific weapons, or just reserve it for covenant weapons to give people another reason to use them. The sword should be the weapon that slices off limbs/decapitates. A direct hit from the gravity hammer should just gib people, kind of like how the flood would fall apart in Halo 3 when they died. Maybe sustained plasma pistol/plasma rifle fire to a certain spot could melt through the armor and whatever lies beneath down to the bone.

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11 hours ago, Hard Way said:

Yeah I can get behind that. I think a lack of in-game social stat tracking would actually drive a lot more traffic into ranked, which is good. But I do think the game should make an attempt to prioritize stats that are more relevant to a legitimate game, and not ones that can be farmed by holding the objective. I think K/D, while useful in many situations, is very prone to becoming a toxic stat. It's importance in the UI should reflect that. Maybe only show it for Slayer-based modes where you can't grief a team.

Things like win percentage, games played, deaths per minute, damage per minute, damage mitigated per life (getting shields back), avg game length, avg party size, avg win margin...those should take center stage. They're all valuable stats, but none of them encourage playing like a douche bag, unlike K/D.

I just remember partying up with this squad one time in Reach Anniversary BTB. We get Timberland CTF, and this kid on our team was the most entitled little brat I'ver ever seen. He was clearly a decent player, but he was the most stat-obsessed little shit I've ever come across. He demanded the sniper, and it was just understood that this team was going to set up and spawn kill for as long as possible, and just cap once right before the end. He was legitimately upset if he didn't get a Be The Bullet. That always stuck with me, that there are people like that. If the game didn't track those stats, I always wondered if he would have even bothered playing that way.  And for the record I capped all 3 times as fast as I could just to hear him squeal, and then promptly left the party.

You’re a hero for that one. I agree with the fact K/D shouldn’t be tracked for obj games. Too many assholes like to stat that way. And I like your idea the UI taking into account when you were in a party. 

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Btb in halo for the longest of times has been a stat fest. I won’t deny that I’ve done it but only because everyone else wanted too. I personally don’t find it fun, statting on thumbless idiots who probably play once in a blue moon. Be the bullet was 30 kills with a sniper right? Holy shit I’ve met a couple people like that. Farming is what killed warzone, although tbh 343 encouraged that with the Achilles helmet.

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Anyone see Ogre 2's meltdown over 75 kills to win today? I figured out to not search slayer when I have a to3+ a long time ago. That's his gripe. Finding the last guy for more kills. Nevermind the fact that real games now last longer than 5 minutes. Let's cut every game off at the knees just in case people quit, when we search with way too good of a team in a social playlist, instead of just not searching slayer. mmkay

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9 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I want that M rating back, and I want Halo to run with it, hard.  First of all, making it rated T means kids want to play it less. An M rated game holds a level of mystique and makes kids want to play it much more. They talk about it more at school. There's that "forbidden" factor that draws people in. They go to their friend's house that has it just to play it.  No one did that for Halo 5. Yes, it's more difficult to obtain, but if the game is popular enough, it doesn't stop people from getting their hands on it. There will always be oblivious soccer moms at Target asking the clerk for whatever game their kid wants. I'm not saying the T rating was the main factor in Halo's decline, but I do think it contributed towards making Halo blend in with the crowd.

Make the Covenant evil and sadistic and scary. Bring back mass amounts of blood. Get creative with the gore. I wanna see visor-cracking headshots that leave brain matter on the wall behind them. Rocket kills should send limbs flying. Shotgun kills should leave a basketball-sized hole in their torso. Sword kills should leave deep gashes. Sniper headshots should decapitate. This shit would get people talking about Halo again. It works for Gears of War...

Edit: unrelated, but @TheIcePrincess, I thought you would get a kick out of this. In one of our discords, I guess mint blitz was complaining about 2gre running a to4 in social, saying it caused mass quitting and AFK. He got called out pretty badly for it. It was especially bad bc I guess it was shortly after laughingly posting a screenshot of a 150 kill game on Wizard.

An M rating isn't hard to obtain given what past Halos has to do for it. All it took was Flood dismemberment to get a pretty tame game an M rating. I don't get where this "mass amounts of blood came from" outside of maybe CE's obnoxiously fun body punching to send your frames to single digits. And Halo Wars, which ironically enough has the most gameplay blood by default, without wailing on corpses. The series has been pretty light on it in general. Always been super toned down sci-fi violence. Which is also funny given Halo 5 literally has an assassination where you outright park a knife into a dude's face, before kneeing it into his skull. Or one where you pull a dude's arm out of his socket so hard it breaks his spine with a pretty gross crunch. THAT sorta violence is better to me than outright insane gore, and the game is rated teen despite having some pretty extreme content to it. Much like Halo 3 is rated M, despite being hilariously tame and almost cartoony in its depiction of violence.

I could maybe get trying to go for a Gears of War aesthetic, but I dunno. It ironically enough feels so out of the ordinary it's kinda jarring, lmao. At least for the mainline games. The books are insane with violence, but yunno. Divides. I don't wanna bring up a dumb "identity" argument, because I hate how arbitrary they are, but Halo never really has been a super glorifyingly violent title. It almost feels like a part of what it is. This sorta pseudo-toned down world of unrealistically pristine violence, lol. It hasn't needed to be to maintain relevance. If anything, the lack of superb violent aspects is what gives parents the nudge in getting it for kids. That and its setting. 

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT. This boils back down to a superbly weird point. Why in the fuck do we want to begin catering to, or wanting kids to get into the game? I guess sometimes kids get into the game AS kids, but there are just as many games that aren't M-rated that acquire a following from childhood to adulthood through pure quality. I honestly prefer that we don't ramp up violence, to the contrary. I'd rather have people getting into it because it looks good from the outset regardless of rating over trying to get edgy for the kids, essentially throwing shit at a wall to see which ones stick with the series. I get the idea, I just don't think it's worth going for for that reason. Longevity can be acquired in other ways without going to weird extremes. 

Lastly, fucking good. Glad he was called out for it. I'd do it myself if I could, lmao. I'll never get over how this kid made a name for himself by pubstomping and alting in parties against bots, but gets decimated against average players and whines about the problem he adds onto. He's 3/3 in games I've played against him. Hope to raise the bar higher.

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38 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Anyone see Ogre 2's meltdown over 75 kills to win today? I figured out to not search slayer when I have a to3+ a long time ago. That's his gripe. Finding the last guy for more kills. Nevermind the fact that real games now last longer than 5 minutes. Let's cut every game off at the knees just in case people quit, when we search with way too good of a team in a social playlist, instead of just not searching slayer. mmkay

Well to be fair the average gamer plays slayer. Play any FPS and TDM is the most populated. With that said, social in halos always struggled with abuse. Team of 3+, team of 3+ way too good players. An MMR is good but only if the population is high(50k plus players id say is decent for a game), and now anyone good is smurfing more than usual. H5 did this and it gets tons of complaints, but h5s mechanics just make the game sweaty in the first place so I won’t count that game completely. 

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5 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

An M rating isn't hard to obtain given what past Halos has to do for it. All it took was Flood dismemberment to get a pretty tame game an M rating. I don't get where this "mass amounts of blood came from" outside of maybe CE's obnoxiously fun body punching to send your frames to single digits. And Halo Wars, which ironically enough has the most gameplay blood by default, without wailing on corpses. The series has been pretty light on it in general. Always been super toned down sci-fi violence. Which is also funny given Halo 5 literally has an assassination where you outright park a knife into a dude's face, before kneeing it into his skull. Or one where you pull a dude's arm out of his socket so hard it breaks his spine with a pretty gross crunch. THAT sorta violence is better to me than outright insane gore, and the game is rated teen despite having some pretty extreme content to it. Much like Halo 3 is rated M, despite being hilariously tame and almost cartoony in its depiction of violence.

I could maybe get trying to go for a Gears of War aesthetic, but I dunno. It ironically enough feels so out of the ordinary it's kinda jarring, lmao. At least for the mainline games. The books are insane with violence, but yunno. Divides. I don't wanna bring up a dumb "identity" argument, because I hate how arbitrary they are, but Halo never really has been a super glorifyingly violent title. It almost feels like a part of what it is. This sorta pseudo-toned down world of unrealistically pristine violence, lol. It hasn't needed to be to maintain relevance. If anything, the lack of superb violent aspects is what gives parents the nudge in getting it for kids. That and its setting. 

BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT. This boils back down to a superbly weird point. Why in the fuck do we want to begin catering to, or wanting kids to get into the game? I guess sometimes kids get into the game AS kids, but there are just as many games that aren't M-rated that acquire a following from childhood to adulthood through pure quality. I honestly prefer that we don't ramp up violence, to the contrary. I'd rather have people getting into it because it looks good from the outset regardless of rating over trying to get edgy for the kids, essentially throwing shit at a wall to see which ones stick with the series. I get the idea, I just don't think it's worth going for for that reason. Longevity can be acquired in other ways without going to weird extremes. 

Lastly, fucking good. Glad he was called out for it. I'd do it myself if I could, lmao. I'll never get over how this kid made a name for himself by pubstomping and alting in parties against bots, but gets decimated against average players and whines about the problem he adds onto. He's 3/3 in games I've played against him. Hope to raise the bar higher.

Hardway there’s a game called “doom” now I understand where you’ll go with this “I want that in halo” but it sounds a bit much. Gore isn’t always the prettiest thing. It’s not exactly needed heavily. Maybe some more blood splatters sure, but we don’t need all this crazy limb, decapitations and shit. 

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It wasn't just punching dead bodies in Halo 1 that produced mass amounts of blood. Grenade explosions, needler explosions (even if non-lethal), plasma pistol overcharges, even meleeing a live body with no shields - without killing them - would make them bleed buckets. Even in the later campaign levels, flood meleeing covenant would send blue and purple blood flying everywhere. THAT is what people miss, and rightfully so, because that's the game responding to the player's efforts and rewarding them with a show without being too graphic or distracting.

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Just now, Larry Sizemore said:

It wasn't just punching dead bodies in Halo 1 that produced mass amounts of blood. Don't try to simplify the argument down to that. Grenade explosions, needler explosions, plasma pistol overcharges, even meleeing a live body with no shields - without even killing them - would make them bleed buckets. Even in the later campaign levels, flood meleeing covenant would send blue and purple blood flying everywhere. THAT is what people miss, and rightfully so, because that's the game responding to the player's efforts and rewarding them with a show without being too graphic or distracting. There's a thick line between stuff like that and something like Gears of War.

A lot of this could do with heavy airquotes. And could also be filled with better feedback responses. Like, the animations I feel play a bigger role in overall feedback to a kill than blood does. I would prefer a day where we get enemies dynamically rolling backwards, or being thrown on their ass after being hit with a nade that doesn't kill them than I would a day where I get CE's blood back because it was beyond inconsequential. Hell, most of CE's feedback to me was caused by how heavy everything felt post-remaster. Mostly due to audio design, in part also due to already existing recoil animations that they dropped post CE/2(?). Never thought blood was what made it feel good, especially given how unrealistic it was in general in terms of reacting to the environment or being conveyed to me. Which in spite of the fact Halo is filled with unrealistic elements, stood out, lol. 

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14 hours ago, Basu said:

Also, I encourage everyone of you to watch the GDC talk on Halo Reachs netcode. The amount of manpower and effort wasted on getting the animations to work in an online environment is astonishing. That doesn't even include the hundreds of hours wasted on creating the animations themselves and bug-testing them so they work with map geometry etc. Time that could've been spent having an actually balanced sandbox, having more interesting weapons and powerups etc etc. 

I completely forgot to put this into my quotes, so, whoopsie. But this isn't how dev teams work. Coding animations to work in a pre-existing environment would have nothing to do with the sandbox balance or design. The people who do this and mocap/hand animate this shit are entirely different than the people punching in the strings of text making the DMR have full and zero bloom. If shit was gonna cause Reach to suffer, it wouldn't be the implementation of animations like this. 

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

Anyone see Ogre 2's meltdown over 75 kills to win today? I figured out to not search slayer when I have a to3+ a long time ago. That's his gripe. Finding the last guy for more kills. Nevermind the fact that real games now last longer than 5 minutes. Let's cut every game off at the knees just in case people quit, when we search with way too good of a team in a social playlist, instead of just not searching slayer. mmkay

I was watching him stream. His gripe is that in the current state of the playlist, adding more kills is essentially a time waster. The current state of the playlist is pure trash with current matchmaking. Also, part of the gripe was that so much work went into the other games and H1 was basically a "playlist update" -- and a bad one at that. 

 

So yeah, I am totally empathizing with him here. Adding kills to the total when most of the games have quitters in them is stupid -- and incredibly tone deaf. Fix the game first regarding how parties match, make the playlist ranked, and quit adding updates that only exaggerate the shitty state of the game.

 

Don't mistake motion for progress.

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Played about 18 4v4 ce games and only had 3 quitters the whole time, and one was vs ogre2's team of 4. I didn't have one game break 9 minutes either and I played multiple damnations and rat races. Didn't get chillout once sadly :(

And like hardway has said in the past. if you're going to complain about quitters when ur running a to4 in a social playlist, just fucking turn off slayer so you can insta win / win in 0-5mins with the objective. 

also the campaign skulls in multiplayer is some silly fun. I recommend everyone play a little bit of it. tho custom games definitely has better settings. 

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For one thing an m rating was easier to get back then. Games that got one back then did so because they were new. Nobody had seen video game violence. Today's violence blow those games out of the water tbh. That stuff is cartoons compared to today.

For another, halo isn't like this heavy metal Gore filled type game. There's some implied fucked up shit (odst has dead bodies lying around for example), decent amounts of blood and "bitch" or two. I know h5 toned down...virtually all of that, but not by much to be completely fair.

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I don't care about gratuitous gore, just feels tonally out of place in this series (halo is not nor has ever been dark and gritty), especially when MP enemies are highly durable spartans.

Blood should return.  Its satisfying, not over the top and can have legitimate story reasons to exist.  The mission 343 Guilty Spark made excellent use of it and it's not something I recall seeing much of if at all in the other games.

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37 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

I don't care about gratuitous gore, just feels tonally out of place in this series (halo is not nor has ever been dark and gritty), especially when MP enemies are highly durable spartans.

Blood should return.  Its satisfying, not over the top and can have legitimate story reasons to exist.  The mission 343 Guilty Spark made excellent use of it and it's not something I recall seeing much of if at all in the other games.

Reach certainly had a grit to it. Whether or not it was true or not... I can't say.

 

Or maybe that was just the grainy filter and motion blur.

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Poor word choice, I mean more slong the lines of dark and edgy.

It's not a franchise with wailing death metal and torture scenes and dystopian societies and the pained screams of your enemies and "edgy" satanic imagery and etc etc envelope pushing etc.

It's a self aware half-serious, half-comedic franchise with a positive view of human future against overwhelming odds.

I.e. it's a giant leap from wortwortwort or food nipple to ripping off an elites arm and shoving it up it's ass.

Reach was serious, gritty even, but not dark and depraved.

And to be clear I'm not some sheltered altar boi offended by any of that.  I just don't think it fits tonally.

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You completely missed the pun. Shame on you.

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

I completely forgot to put this into my quotes, so, whoopsie. But this isn't how dev teams work. Coding animations to work in a pre-existing environment would have nothing to do with the sandbox balance or design. The people who do this and mocap/hand animate this shit are entirely different than the people punching in the strings of text making the DMR have full and zero bloom. If shit was gonna cause Reach to suffer, it wouldn't be the implementation of animations like this. 

I specifically mentioned playtesting and the networking stuff. This could've 100% been spent testing actually important stuff or further improvements to the netcode besides making sure two people's positions line up for a takedown animation. As Hardway mentioned a few pages back, the Spiker, Plasma Rifle and friends were without a doubt never properly playtested and balanced, which means they were definitely short on man hours or simply had their priorities all wack

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We need red orchestra level gore, im talking gibs and nubs, limbless stubs. Most importantly we need mandatory K/D splash screens after every game that highlights in red the worst performer with another 5 second splash screen that reads [Would you like to remove this player? press X]

 

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

I specifically mentioned playtesting and the networking stuff. This could've 100% been spent testing actually important stuff or further improvements to the netcode besides making sure two people's positions line up for a takedown animation. As Hardway mentioned a few pages back, the Spiker, Plasma Rifle and friends were without a doubt never properly playtested and balanced, which means they were definitely short on man hours or simply had their priorities all wack

All weapon balances aside, reach had the best netcode compared to any halo game, change my mind.

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