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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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3 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

Regardless of where a K/D is viewable on the player's profile or not in-game, people are always going to be interested in what their K/D is. It's a good metric to know what kind of player you're playing against w/ all those other metrics taken into consideration. 

But yeah, it's not really important in an objective playlist. It's very important in a TS playlist.

 

Although at this point, I'd settle for any sort of progression system that keeps people interested in the game(s).

Damage is a better form of showing what people do. You could go 40-5 in a game of Slayer, but if your three other teammates with the 10 other kills outdamage you hardcore, then you know who's doing the real work and who's cleaning up the kills for a "good" statline.

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9 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Damage is a better form of showing what people do. You could go 40-5 in a game of Slayer, but if your three other teammates with the 10 other kills outdamage you hardcore, then you know who's doing the real work and who's cleaning up the kills for a "good" statline.

True, DPS + accuracy would be a cool way to show stats in the carnage report, along with K/D. I remember accuracy being in H2, but don't recall if damage was a metric.

 

I'm a data guy so I'm interested in all the metrics, tbh. The more, the better.

 

edit: can't form sentences

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Just now, Arftacular said:

True, DPS + accuracy would be a cool way to show in the carnage report, along with K/D. I remember accuracy being in H2, but don't recall if damage was a metric.

 

I'm a data guy so I'm interested in all the metrics, tbh. The more, the better.

Yeah, if only our casters got this, lol.

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3 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

True, DPS + accuracy would be a cool way to show stats in the carnage report, along with K/D. I remember accuracy being in H2, but don't recall if damage was a metric.

 

I'm a data guy so I'm interested in all the metrics, tbh. The more, the better.

 

edit: can't form sentences

100%. The more stats the better. Damage should be on the same PAGE as kills assists and deaths tho. H5 fucked that up big time since we missed damage most games during tournies. No stats can truly tell the story but I love a detailed breakdown. One of the things about Mcc I can't stand. 

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25 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

Regardless of whether* a K/D is viewable on the player's profile or not in-game, people are always going to be interested in what their K/D is. It's a good metric to know what kind of player you're playing against w/ all those other metrics taken into consideration. 

But yeah, it's not really important in an objective playlist. It's very important in a TS playlist.

 

Although at this point, I'd settle for any sort of progression system that keeps people interested in the game(s).

I think it should be accessible on the website, for anyone. I think the most important thing is to not allow your K/D to be seen by other people within the game. I think thats where a lot of the toxicity comes from;  be it from shaming people for a bad K/D, or for statting on kids to try to inflate your own when others look at it. I think it breeds more bad behavior than it's worth. If you really wanna know, go to the website.

Edit: Damage per Minute would be another stat that would be a welcome addition to a players in-game profile page. And it's far more useful, less toxic, and less exploitable than K/D.

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2 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I think it should be accessible on the website, for anyone. I think the most important thing is to not allow your K/D to be seen by other people within the game. I think thats where a lot of the toxicity comes from;  be it from shaming people for a bad K/D, or for statting on kids to try to inflate your own when others look at it. I think it breeds more bad behavior than it's worth. If you really wanna know, go to the website.

People are going to find a reason to be toxic whether KD is visible or not. That’s a silly measure to curb behavior which is going to be there regardless. 

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3 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

People are going to find a reason to be toxic whether KD is visible or not. That’s a silly measure to curb behavior which is going to be there regardless. 

It existing vs not existing isn't the question. It's how prevalent is it? To what lengths will people go to do it? If you remove incentive, you will reduce prevalence. And that's a good thing. I would hope that we can agree on that.

Historically, I can't think of a bigger incentive to stat on people than inflating your in-game publicly displayed K/D.

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2 hours ago, Hard Way said:

It existing vs not existing isn't the question. It's how prevalent is it? To what lengths will people go to do it? If you remove incentive, you will reduce prevalence. And that's a good thing. I would hope that we can agree on that.

Historically, I can't think of a bigger incentive to stat on people than inflating your in-game publicly displayed K/D.

At the end of the day, you’re playing a first person shooter where KD and win % are two of the most important metrics that define a player’s skill relative to the player base. I shouldn’t have to login to a website to see what mine (or whoever I’m playing with’s) is, lol. That’s such a silly suggestion. 

 

Edit: Also, I saw your edit regarding the public shaming regarding quits. That makes this suggestion all the richer. So it’s okay to public shame quitting, while it’s not okay to public shame a bad KD? 

 

What an interesting perspective to have. 

 

Also, for what it’s worth, I would be okay with KD not being viewable or counted towards profile stats in a social playlist, since it’s meaningless there. I’m strictly speaking of competitive playlist scenarios. 

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57 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

People are going to find a reason to be toxic whether KD is visible or not. That’s a silly measure to curb behavior which is going to be there regardless. 

Agreed. Overwatch is what happens when you try to curb behavior and make peoples statistical contributions vague, it just becomes even more of a blame game. If anything they should put more stats on screen in game so people can actually see in what areas people ARE contributing as well as where they're percieved to be not contributing.

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1 hour ago, Arftacular said:

At the end of the day, you’re playing a first person shooter where KD and win % are two of the most important metrics that define a player’s skill relative to the player base. I shouldn’t have to login to a website to see what mine (or whoever I’m playing with’s) is, lol. That’s such a silly suggestion. 

So am I a good player bec I get one head shot on a guy for the kill while my teammate put the 3/4 shots into him to make him a one shot? KD doesn't define Halo. Not to mention Halo has great is objective games. Should I be more grateful for my teammate having a 2.0 KD if he never helps with the objective? 

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6 minutes ago, JordanB said:

So am I a good player bec I get one head shot on a guy for the kill while my teammate put the 3/4 shots into him to make him a one shot? KD doesn't define Halo. Not to mention Halo has great is objective games. Should I be more grateful for my teammate having a 2.0 KD if he never helps with the objective? 

That's just a stupid argument, to be frank.

First of all, I didn't say it defined Halo. I said those two metrics were two of the most important... which they are relative to the metrics that have been in the Halo series, as far as I know. If a player has a solid KD and a high win percentage, that tells me one thing. If they have a high KD with a low win percentage, that tells me another thing -- in general, of course. A high KD probably doesn't correlate with much on its own but accompanied with other metrics it is important. These are of course taken over a wide sample of games and not one-offs. 

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15 minutes ago, JordanB said:

Should I be more grateful for my teammate having a 2.0 KD if he never helps with the objective? 

See, that also depends. If he has a 2.0 and is anchoring a spawn enabling him to get those kills unassisted, then yeah, be grateful. This argument boils down more so to stuff stats won't tell you and feels super case by case over anything.  Like the difference between some idiot sitting ring 2 on Shrine with a snipe, swapping spawns to kill people coming from hut or rocks, over sitting hut to block that spawn, and force them to spawn rocks, enabling an easy flag run. Both could net you a 2.0 K/D, but one actually helps the team, even if you don't touch the flag, and one hinders it.

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15 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

That's just a stupid argument, to be frank.

First of all, I didn't say it defined Halo. I said those two metrics were two of the most important... which they are relative to the metrics that have been in the Halo series, as far as I know. If a player has a solid KD and a high win percentage, that tells me one thing. If they have a high KD with a low win percentage, that tells me another thing -- in general, of course. A high KD probably doesn't correlate with much on its own but accompanied with other metrics it is important. These are of course taken over a wide sample of games and not one-offs. 

As soon as you show KD it will be the most viewed and most important stat for the average player. 

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Just now, JordanB said:

As soon as you show KD it will be the most viewed and most important stat for the average player. 

And so what? Having stats in a competitive game is a good thing. Do some people put too much stock into KD? Absolutely. Should we remove that to protect people's feelings in the playlist? Absolutely not. 

 

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.

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9 minutes ago, Larry Sizemore said:

> Caring about your K/D in 2019

Caring about other people's feelings in halo CE in 2019.

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1 minute ago, WARGOD said:

Caring about other people's feelings in halo CE in 2019.

Seriously. That's so much memier than caring about your KD, LOL.

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3 minutes ago, WARGOD said:

Caring about other people's feelings in halo CE in 2019.

Not posting your tag when people call you out in 2019

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Your average damage per game, your win/loss ratio, and your K/D should be public info, in that order. High damage but low W/L and K/D? You shoot anything that moves and are constantly throwing yourself into danger, but can't do much else. High W/L but low damage and K/D? You're the objective player, or the guy that cleans up weak enemies, but you can't win fights. High K/D but low damage and W/L? You grab the Power Weapons to keep the enemy team dead, but you're effectively useless at objective and teamwork.

Find peeps who are good at 2/3 or 3/3.

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47 minutes ago, Arftacular said:

And so what? Having stats in a competitive game is a good thing. Do some people put too much stock into KD? Absolutely. Should we remove that to protect people's feelings in the playlist?

It's not about "feelings" and seeing the kills hidden is not an attempt to protect poor jimmy and his 0.1 K/D from nasty tommy who has 5.0. It's about letting you, the player, know that the points on the scoreboard are the ones relevant to winning. It's about changing to attitude towards what constitutes winning.

However, I don't really have any issues with it in Halo. As you stated, K/D and Win % are two of the most easy-to-quantify stats within Halo. I really like Black Ops 4's 'damage dealt' statistic though.

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Stop talking about this or people will get cooling off bans.

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11 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

It's not about "feelings" and seeing the kills hidden is not an attempt to protect poor jimmy and his 0.1 K/D from nasty tommy who has 5.0. It's about letting you, the player, know that the points on the scoreboard are the ones relevant to winning. It's about changing to attitude towards what constitutes winning.

However, I don't really have any issues with it in Halo. As you stated, K/D and Win % are two of the most easy-to-quantify stats within Halo. I really like Black Ops 4's 'damage dealt' statistic though.

Hard Way mentioned the toxicity aspect, hence why I brought up the feelings side.

 

Having metrics like KD, win %, DPS, etc are all good metrics when searching the playlist, especially if you're going in with an incomplete party. It provides a few different things:

1. How good does this person look when it comes to fitting on my team or my playstyle

2. Feedback about individual performance. If your KD is bad and you're losing, it helps to have that information so you can adjust and attempt to iron out the kinks

3. I don't have to waste valuable play-time or energy to figure out whether this guy I picked up is good or bad, and vice versa for them with me

 

But, I imagine we're in agreement there. Figured it was worth mentioning. 

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1 minute ago, Arftacular said:

Hard Way mentioned the toxicity aspect, hence why I brought up the feelings side.

 

Having metrics like KD, win %, DPS, etc are all good metrics when searching the playlist, especially if you're going in with an incomplete party. It provides a few different things:

 

1. How good does this person look when it comes to fitting on my team or my playstyle

2. Feedback about individual performance. If your KD is bad and you're losing, it helps to have that information so you can adjust and attempt to iron out the kinks

3. I don't have to waste valuable play-time to figure out whether this guy I picked up is good or bad, and vice versa for them with me

 

But, I imagine we're in agreement there. Figured it was worth mentioning. 

I think toxicity is usually culture related and this can be alleviated (though not fixed) with gameplay. For example the realistic FPS Squad has focused it's gameplay so heavily on teamwork that the community is very friendly and welcoming because you literally can't win without talking to your team. 

Halo certainly wouldn't suit this and I agree that having a quick peak through someones K/D, W/L and hopefully ADPS/Game is a good way to gage if they have thumbs or not. Someone with 17,000 kills and 18,000 deaths and 30% win ratio probably isn't going to clutch it up.

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Sorry for speaking such crimes against humanity, seems I lost control of myself there haha. Thanks for the warning I'll be sure to do better next time! :^)

Related image

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24 minutes ago, Shekkles said:

Stop talking about this or people will get cooling off bans.

giphy.gif

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