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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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16 hours ago, Meleeisback said:

No part of that montage is skill. It’s just luck that his opponent was there. There’s a reason for balancing. The OS in ce is balanced because of the strong utility and grenade power. There’s not a good balance to this camo. Later halos do this justice. 

except you know, you're no stronger than a normal opponent. get hit by a nade, get caught, go through a portal with someone watching it, camo wont save u but OS will. You also don't get invincibility upon picking up the powerup so going for camo is more risking than OS. 

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10 hours ago, xxcloud7xx said:

My post isn't ironic. I don't mind people scrutinizing the flaws of camo in Halo 1 however whining/complaining about Halo 1's camo and making excuses for your poor performance will only hinder you from improving at the game. It's easier to whine/complain about the flaws of camo in Halo 1 and make excuses for your own poor performance than it is to do some introspection and examine your own inadequacies because doing so requires some humility.  It would be unwise of me to whine and complain about the map inbalance of Derelict due to all of the power items spawning up top after immediately losing a 2v2 team slayer match on Derelict because it would only hinder me from improving at the game. Instead it would be more wise of me to do some introspection and examine my own inadequacies so I can improve at playing 2v2 team slayer on Derelict. It's important to analyze and distinguish your own inadequacies as a player from the game's inadequacies.

The original post criticized a gameplay mechanic, and you told him to unironically "git gud", rather than arguing why the mechanic may be good or bad, which was the point. That is Waypoint logic, lol. You can be shit, or a pro, and something can still be good or bad, regardless. It's nothing to do with being humble. It's to do with arguing with fallacies. Likewise, it's easier to pass off someone bitching about the game you like as them "just sucking", rather than maybe acknowledging a gameplay mechanic is garbo and legitimately discussing it without being circular.

2 hours ago, Basu said:

Seriously, how can people defend that garbage but hate on CE camo?

I don't speak for everyone but in concept camo sucks, lol. Bitch about every incarnation of it.

8 hours ago, LI Mr X IL said:

Obtaining and denying the power items is THEE meta of CE slayer and is what makes it so different and so much better than slayer in other Halos. 

I don't get how this is so different from any other Halo, lmao. It's literally a tired way of describing Halo at this point since everyone in the community talks about this being a pillar of the game. It's not really different for CE to have this.

 

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Let someone who is good get camo all game while you get your OS and see what happens to you in CE.  That's about the time when you log off and run to the safety of whatever inferior game by comparison you can get your hands on whether it be:

Apex Legends
Division 2
Overwatch
Fortnite
Any COD
Any other Halo.... 

the list goes on. Doesn't matter what I'm playing, if someone says it's time for CE, then it's time for some fucking CE and I'm dropping that shit and playing CE no questions asked.  A better FPS gaming experience is a better FPS gaming experience, period.  Do you see anyone that goes to beach LAN coming together to play any of that shit instead of CE?  No.  Not our faults that the devs can't make nothing but mediocrity compared to Halo CE.  You know it, I know it, the ogres know it.  We are blessed to be playing during a time where the greatest FPS game on console to ever come out exists and we got people complaining about how they can't take out some random player on MCC that has camo?  Is this real life?  If you think that's a task, try going up against someone that has camo that is actually good.   I mean I come on here for some good laughs but this just takes the cake.

 

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Sometimes the truth just hurts I guess.

"I'm rage quitting because I keep dying to this camo guy!"

Congrats... you learned nothing, and the same shit will keep happening next time.

"There won't be a next time, I'm done with halo CE"

Congrats... less quitters for the rest of us to deal with.  Maybe if this continues to happen, more games will be completed on average without anyone quitting.  Players with these entitled mindsets that have no patience are the worst.  Oh well, in the end it all works itself out.

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I'm sure all 35 people who still think CE is the best competitive shooter ever would agree that turning invisible is essential to the unmatched and finely tuned high level competitive meta of Halo CE and if you don't think so you are probably good at some lame-ass game people actually still play like Counter-Strike.

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9 hours ago, Meleeisback said:

H5 it is very effective but it’s srull somewhat seeable. There’s a reason a sleight blur was added to it. I understand you ce purist love it this way, but it’s still unbalanced as a whole. 

Bro, I'm sorry, but you literally posted you have vision problems further up. Glasses and contacts exist for a reason.

 

With correct vision, it's 100% possible to notice camo in CE if you pay attention.

 

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A power up that opens up invisible doorways, teleporters, and tunnels and makes them visible to the user.

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2 minutes ago, Boyo said:

A power up that opens up invisible doorways, teleporters, and tunnels and makes them visible to the user.

Besides the fact dumb unseen ports of entry would have to exist on a map for this to be viable, wouldn't it be redundant the moment you pick it up and learn where shit is? Or is this like Wolfenstien's Viel, where you only access it with the powerup. Because that's even worse.

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5 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Besides the fact dumb unseen ports of entry would have to exist on a map for this to be viable, wouldn't it be redundant the moment you pick it up and learn where shit is? Or is this like Wolfenstien's Viel, where you only access it with the powerup. Because that's even worse.

The user can only access the invisible paths while the power up is active.  Yes, players would learn the invisible routes by using the power up themselves.  I would probably combine it with a speed boost.  And a reduction in player model size.  And make melee emit a 360 degree disc of damage around the user.

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The user can only access the invisible paths while the power up is active.  Yes, players would learn the invisible routes by using the power up themselves.  I would probably combine it with a speed boost.  And a reduction in player model size.  And make melee emit a 360 degree disc of damage around the user.

Nice bait.

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5 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The user can only access the invisible paths while the power up is active.  Yes, players would learn the invisible routes by using the power up themselves.  I would probably combine it with a speed boost.  And a reduction in player model size.  And make melee emit a 360 degree disc of damage around the user.

Jesus Christ 

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9 hours ago, OG Nick said:

You do know that the camo player is actually a slightly off color to whatever is behind them right in CE right? It's harder to see far away, but load up prisoner have someone get camo and go stand in front of a wall.

You know, I stated I don’t have 20/20, and on derelict it’s quite difficult even up close.

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The original post criticized a gameplay mechanic, and you told him to unironically "git gud", rather than arguing why the mechanic may be good or bad, which was the point. That is Waypoint logic, lol. You can be shit, or a pro, and something can still be good or bad, regardless. It's nothing to do with being humble. It's to do with arguing with fallacies. Likewise, it's easier to pass off someone bitching about the game you like as them "just sucking", rather than maybe acknowledging a gameplay mechanic is garbo and legitimately discussing it without being circular.

I don't speak for everyone but in concept camo sucks, lol. Bitch about every incarnation of it.

I don't get how this is so different from any other Halo, lmao. It's literally a tired way of describing Halo at this point since everyone in the community talks about this being a pillar of the game. It's not really different for CE to have this.

 

Thanks for the defense. My grind with it in ce is it’s simply unseeable like at all. Maybe it’s just me though? Also I am talking about halo mcc CE not OG, never played it tbh.

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5 hours ago, Basu said:

Seriously, how can people defend that garbage but hate on CE camo?

Maybe because in h5 it’s not completely unseeable. Camouflage isn’t invisibility. It’s close but not 100% the same thing. 

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Nice bait.

The Power Up would appear as a gold orb on the map.  Upon pick up, the player becomes the orb, as if he were sucked inside of it.  He now controls the orb.  The orb is smaller, faster, and has access to routes that other players do not.

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31 minutes ago, Boyo said:

The Power Up would appear as a gold orb on the map.  Upon pick up, the player becomes the orb, as if he were sucked inside of it.  He now controls the orb.  The orb is smaller, faster, and has access to routes that other players do not.

Fortnite Baller says hi

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19 minutes ago, Meleeisback said:

Thanks for the defense. My grind with it in ce is it’s simply unseeable like at all. Maybe it’s just me though? Also I am talking about halo mcc CE not OG, never played it tbh.

Which is my issue with it in general, lol. And it's only exacerbated depending on if you have slow or fast killtimes, given first shots matter so much more in a console shooter where you can't just heelturn smack a kid.

Gets worse in later titles which stop giving you aim assist on targets even if you can see them. What a godawful idea.

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7 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The original post criticized a gameplay mechanic, and you told him to unironically "git gud", rather than arguing why the mechanic may be good or bad, which was the point. That is Waypoint logic, lol. You can be shit, or a pro, and something can still be good or bad, regardless. It's nothing to do with being humble. It's to do with arguing with fallacies. Likewise, it's easier to pass off someone bitching about the game you like as them "just sucking", rather than maybe acknowledging a gameplay mechanic is garbo and legitimately discussing it without being circular.

You perceived his post as him legitimately criticising the flaws of Halo 1's camo and I perceived his post as him projecting his own inadequacies of not being able to predict and outplay his opponents in Halo 1 when his opponents have control of camo. Calling my post Waypoint logic is a pejorative and only detracts from your argument. I would like to further discuss Halo 1's camo with him but he hasn't responded to my other post. He hasn't answered what constitutes skill,  what constitutes competence, and what constitutes balance. He also hasn't answered my question of how isn't camo balanced in Halo 1.

Quote

H5 it is very effective but it’s srull somewhat seeable. There’s a reason a sleight blur was added to it. I understand you ce purist love it this way, but it’s still unbalanced as a whole. 
 

I'm going to ask this question again since it seems to me that you have ignored my other post. What constitutes balance? How is camo unbalanced in Halo 1? Just because you assert that Halo 1's camo is unbalanced doesn't make the statement true. Have you ever considered that maybe the imbalance of Halo 1's camo that you perceive could actually be an inadequacy of you not being able to predict and outplay your opponents in Halo 1 when your opponents have control of camo instead of a legitimate inadequacy of camo in Halo 1?

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30 minutes ago, xxcloud7xx said:

You perceived his post as him legitimately criticising the flaws of Halo 1's camo and I perceived his post as him projecting his own inadequacies of not being able to predict and outplay his opponents in Halo 1 when his opponents have control of camo. Calling my post Waypoint logic is a pejorative and only detracts from your argument. I would like to further discuss Halo 1's camo with him but he hasn't responded to my other post. He hasn't answered what constitutes skill,  what constitutes competence, and what constitutes balance. He also hasn't answered my question of how isn't camo balanced in Halo 1.

I'm going to ask this question again since it seems to me that you have ignored my other post. What constitutes balance? How is camo unbalanced in Halo 1? Just because you assert that Halo 1's camo is unbalanced doesn't make the statement true. Have you ever considered that maybe the imbalance of Halo 1's camo that you perceive could actually be an inadequacy of you not being able to predict and outplay your opponents in Halo 1 when your opponents have control of camo instead of a legitimate inadequacy of camo in Halo 1?

He literally only said camo is hard to see and the potential implications therein. Which is a fact irregardless of someone's skill. The thing he comments on has nothing to do with the fact he didn't predict the camo, because the issue he speaks on would persist if he had camo, or if he didn't. And "predicting and outplaying" camo won't stop it from having the issue of being hard to see. It just shifts who has that power. 

I wanna indulge in this, just for funskies, though. Mainly because I like a good debate, unironically. Any game without any proper, snappy, responsive aiming. You know, any console shooter, should not have a mechanic that allows you to become invisible to anyone. You get essentially free map movement because no one can see you, and you get no downside to it. Even the fact you can't fight without disrupting it isn't a downside when you literally have every advantage in full on peeking to see someone, line up your target, and get a first shot off before the person could know you were there or see you. Not even accounting for the people who are turned around, lol. In a game where each bullet is worth 33% of your overall health, and you have the detriment of slow ass, unprecise aiming, one shot up on someone is an insane advantage that is generally uncontested with camo. And only one person gets this, too. So one person gets essentially free roam of the map and at the LEAST a guaranteed free shot on the first person they encounter at any range.

Of course, this goes past burns, and assumes we get the power up. Most good players would tend to probably play for the burn, given it's not an OS. For hypothetical's sake assume you don't burn it. Just take into account the insane advantage you get by being invisible.

With that said, balance I would say is a genuinely even conflict. Even starts (however arbitrary they are as they are now) make up a part of that as a good example. Universal movement. Camo brings unbalance to this. As stated, only one of you gains invisibility, and even one kill is more than enough for me to go "that's pretty cheese". Especially in a game defined by the fact it's a 2v2 affair, and any game spent fighting potential numbers advantages is a steep hill to climb, even for higher skilled players by matter of said numbers. And it's not like the damage of your magnum counts for dick all for that, given the advantage in numbers just turns the greatest asset of said weapon into the bane of your existence.

Camo sucks. At least you can run from OS. If you don't see camo, which could very well be through no fault of your own given it's rare people sit in place and watch for it, you're cooked. Because someone is fucken' invisible, lmao. Doesn't count most later titles that gave it the distinctly dumb honor of removing aim assist. 

The other thing too. Prediction means fuck all with camo. Free map traversal allows you to move upon the roads less traveled. Or upon normally traveled lines of sight. You can literally go anywhere you fucking want, and there's next to nill in the way that's stopping you. Predicting someone's movement with camo literally dies in a fire when they go from being able to move upon normal sightlines with normal punishment to ANY sightline while being unseen at any range.

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13 hours ago, Meleeisback said:

Maybe because in h5 it’s not completely unseeable.

But it quite literally is. The buff the gave it was completely unnecessary. The only disadvantage H5 camo has is that you can't run at full speed while using it (lul sprint). Seriously how can you easily see H5 camo among all the visual clutter without glasses but CE camo gives you trouble?

Also I haven't played MCC CE in a while, but I remember camo used to be dogshit until a few patches ago. Did they buff it that hard? Can't believe that. With a little game sense and having an AR out to spray them down camo really isn't that much of a threat.

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Camo is hard to see... That's erm... kinda the point?

Of course you're going to have an advantage that is why items are on the map in the first place - advantages for teams to fight over. Prediction is still relevant as map motivations are very much still in play, give them the infinity gauntlet to travel through space and time too, they're still going to show up at the next OS spawn because they're still fixed within the narrative of the game. The risk / reward of travelling through open space is something that can be considered by both parties, you're not going to be dumbfounded when someone with a 45 second powerup makes a beline for you. Similarly you can reduce the effectiveness of camos advantages with your own positioning, compositional changes (both offensively and defensively) in relation to ultimates in Overwatch is a great visual example of this, but the concept is no different in Halo where you KNOW someone holds a specific advantage over you.

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