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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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15 hours ago, Killmachine said:

i miss boyo

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27 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Clearly you haven’t read the forums, or twitter. People do not find the original gameplay fast(it doesn’t help that the halo everyone looks at is h3) but then again h1&2 aren’t exactly fast paced for movement but more or less because their starting gun is strong. I looked at doom there and that is in almost every ounce of the word “halo” and looks fast pace without sprint. People don’t know what they want from a halo game but I do and it’s something speedy and quick like doom. Look i apologize for always being an asshole, but I’m just desperate for a good halo again.  H1 and 2 also have stuff like teleporters and lifts(h3 has more of this) but it’s still not enough basically. Also a higher FOV isn’t enough to make a game appear faster(halo online basically h3 with better hit reg and FOV slider). 

What data shows they should? Because I Bonnie Ross said h5 MP was well loved. Tbh it’s shooting is probably what people liked most because it’s hit reg was consistently good. But what does that tell me? That they won’t go back to the classics. 

I adored Doom. And non-sprint movement that feels fast like that is exactly what folks around here are asking for. Not necessarily clamber/thrust or how moving forward is like 50% faster than any other direction, but just that general speedy feeling. That is 100% something that can be accomplished through BMS and FOV tweaks.

Its no secret that Halo’s relevance is in the shitter, and it’s no secret when it started or what is responsible. Bonnie Ross says that stuff in public because she has to. They know people don’t like their game.

I think it’s important to show clarity in what we want and like. Being wishy washy and yielding stupid mechanics unnecessarily is how we got Halo 5. If the community says “give us what we want, or we won’t buy your game”, they’re going to do it. There’s pressure on them to make Halo relevant like it used to be.

The important thing is to take the things that worked best from previous games, and apply them in a way that makes sense today. No one is asking for a clone of an old game. We just want some fucking common sense.

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1 hour ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

So you think popularity means bad? In most cases it’s not. Fortnite is popular because it’s amazingly fun regardless of your individual opinion. A games population can easily tell you it’s decently good. Not to mention the higher the pop the more likely someone is to play it.

Popularity is not an indicator of good quality because the masses tend to have ignorant (inexperienced?), garbage tastes in...just about everything.  This will always be the case when you compare average joe off the street to an actual dedicated hobbyist who knows their shit and has seen it all before.  Like both those animes are terrible dude, where the plot is little more than a vehicle for the next bIg fIgHt ScEnE and the characters are all copy-pasted tropes.  They're widely enjoyed because they're junk food, easy entertainment...not because they're the pinnacle of intelligent media.

Not all popular things are bad, obviously, and there are popular things I enjoy.  But a fuckton of them sure as hell are because of everything I said above.  I don't base my opinions on popularity, that's stupid.  I base them on my own taste and experience.  I don't care how many people play Fortnite.  It's an instant gratification RNG-fest, and as much as people claim to love it they sure were quick to abandon it in favor of the next instant-gratification RNG fest...

38 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Clearly you haven’t read the forums, or twitter. People do not find the original gameplay fast(it doesn’t help that the halo everyone looks at is h3) but then again h1&2 aren’t exactly fast paced for movement but more or less because their starting gun is strong. I looked at doom there and that is in almost every ounce of the word “halo” and looks fast pace without sprint. People don’t know what they want from a halo game but I do and it’s something speedy and quick like doom. Look i apologize for always being an asshole, but I’m just desperate for a good halo again.  H1 and 2 also have stuff like teleporters and lifts(h3 has more of this) but it’s still not enough basically. Also a higher FOV isn’t enough to make a game appear faster(halo online basically h3 with better hit reg and FOV slider). 

What data shows they should? Because I Bonnie Ross said h5 MP was well loved. Tbh it’s shooting is probably what people liked most because it’s hit reg was consistently good. But what does that tell me? That they won’t go back to the classics. 

DooM is similar but not so similar you can just copy-paste mechanics thoughtlessly.  A lot easier to track double-jumpers and such with a Shotgun or mid-air detonating Rocket than it is with a precision weapon with a small margin of error...

Even if these mechanics could work you have to ask two important questions.

1.  Is Thrust good for Halo in the first place?  I mean with a speed, crisp strafe you shouldn't really need a dodge mechanic anyways, and it would be potentially overbearing if it were added on top of that.

2.  Do these mechanics even address the "problems" that sprint seeks to address?  Dodges on a long timer don't exactly make map traversal faster, while on a short timer they become just as game-defining as sprint is.

At least they're worth consideration, and at least thrust-with-gun is better than thrust-without-gun.  I'll give you that much.

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8 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Ok who in the right mind pays attention to stupid shit like that? What are you some weirdo? You’re like the person who will notice a texture looking different, when no one else does. 

A vast majority of people. Recognizing what weapon a player has equipped is a fundamental skill.

My goodness, the PC release is hopefully around the corner. I hope we can get some good content (replay reviews, strat talk, improvement discussion) to go along with these back and forth debates.

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14 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

Popularity is not an indicator of good quality because the masses tend to have ignorant (inexperienced?), garbage tastes in...just about everything.  This will always be the case when you compare average joe off the street to an actual dedicated hobbyist who knows their shit and has seen it all before.  Like both those animes are terrible dude, where the plot is little more than a vehicle for the next bIg fIgHt ScEnE and the characters are all copy-pasted tropes.  They're widely enjoyed because they're junk food, easy entertainment...not because they're the pinnacle of intelligent media.

Not all popular things are bad, obviously, and there are popular things I enjoy.  But a fuckton of them sure as hell are because of everything I said above.  I don't base my opinions on popularity, that's stupid.  I base them on my own taste and experience.  I don't care how many people play Fortnite.  It's an instant gratification RNG-fest, and as much as people claim to love it they sure were quick to abandon it in favor of the next instant-gratification RNG fest...

DooM is similar but not so similar you can just copy-paste mechanics thoughtlessly.  A lot easier to track double-jumpers and such with a Shotgun or mid-air detonating Rocket than it is with a precision weapon with a small margin of error...

Even if these mechanics could work you have to ask two important questions.

1.  Is Thrust good for Halo in the first place?  I mean with a speed, crisp strafe you shouldn't really need a dodge mechanic anyways, and it would be potentially overbearing if it were added on top of that.

2.  Do these mechanics even address the "problems" that sprint seeks to address?  Dodges on a long timer don't exactly make map traversal faster, while on a short timer they become just as game-defining as sprint is.

At least they're worth consideration, and at least thrust-with-gun is better than thrust-without-gun.  I'll give you that much.

That first point is the most ignorant viewpoint ever. Ignorant, garbage taste? What gives you the right to dictate who’s taste is awful. I personally don’t like CE but I’m not against someone liking it because they’ve got their reasons. You’re literally the guy I talked about who says DBZ or Naruto is bad anime.

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DBZ and Naruto never got mentioned. Projecting much?

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21 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

That first point is the most ignorant viewpoint ever. Ignorant, garbage taste? What gives you the right to dictate who’s taste is awful. I personally don’t like CE but I’m not against someone liking it because they’ve got their reasons. You’re literally the guy I talked about who says DBZ or Naruto is bad anime.

I mean, I have every right to dictate for myself whose opinions I consider to be good or garbage.

It's ignorant to claim I HAVE TO acknowledge things as high quality just because other people find them high quality.  They're popular but that's the one and only objective statement that can be made here.  Well that and I think "less experienced people tend to have lower standards due to limited range of experience" is a valid axiom.

And bruh you constantly demonize people for liking Ce.

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10 hours ago, NeverGoFullCanc said:

Membr when Boyo wanted a spartan shrinking armor ability? Good times

25% player model size, 120% speed, 120% jump height, extended melee lunge.

A faster strafe, higher jump, and longer melee enhance the user’s micro movement, like during a gunfight.  Increased movement speed and jump height enhances the user’s macro movement too, allowing him to position and set up faster.  By utilizing “mouse holes” (hole in a wall that only a Minimize user can fit through) the user is granted access to exclusive new paths, allowing him to take routes that other players cannot.

Those are three ways in which I believe it could enhance gameplay.  How would it hurt gameplay?

 

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17 minutes ago, Ramirez77 said:

I mean, I have every right to dictate for myself whose opinions I consider to be good or garbage.

It's ignorant to claim I HAVE TO acknowledge things as high quality just because other people find them high quality.  They're popular but that's the one and only objective statement that can be made here.  Well that and I think "less experienced people tend to have lower standards due to limited range of experience" is a valid axiom.

And bruh you constantly demonize people for liking Ce.

No I demonize them for acting like it’s 100% better than the halos I like example halo 3 or reach(TU/v7) .

also it’s not ignorant to acknowledge their opinions. You very well should acknowledge them.

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Just now, Fixaimingsorry said:

No I demonize them for acting like it’s 100% better than the halos I like example halo 3 or reach(TU/v7) .

You're literally the man that calls almost every opinion stupid and dumb. Like almost every single post. You're picking the wrong hill to die on. 

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You know you can edit a post right? Instead of just replying to the same post twice within 1 minute of doing so.

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Not much a hill to die on, more like an ant hill. 

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3 minutes ago, infraction said:

You know you can edit a post right? Instead of just replying to the same post twice within 1 minute of doing so.

Mobile 

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Just now, Fixaimingsorry said:

That’s more accurate. 

Exactly, you don't have a hill to die on.

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1 minute ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Holy fuck 

Sure I insult many opinions on here simply because it irritates me how no one here has the mindset to acknowledge my POV regarding what’s good for halo. Ramirez blatantly just proved his own ignorance for failing to acknowledge “why” others have a different viewpoint because he believes he’s better, more experienced(without any evidence to prove he is) etc etc. how can you honestly expect me to respect someone like that? 

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To think that something that’s remained popular is bad because you believe people arent experienced, and those people are ignorant is blatant ignorance at the highest level. Experience in halos regard also holds no weight whatsoever because we have some people who started with h1 and think h5 is the best halo ever.

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17 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Sure I insult many opinions on here simply because it irritates me how no one here has the mindset to acknowledge my POV regarding what’s good for halo. Ramirez blatantly just proved his own ignorance for failing to acknowledge “why” others have a different viewpoint because he believes he’s better, more experienced(without any evidence to prove he is) etc etc. how can you honestly expect me to respect someone like that? 

Dude the point is that you literally do the EXACT SAME THING why is that SO hard for you to get? You've been insulting everyone and everything since you got here and then pretend like everyone is being mean to you for no reason. If you actually gave ideas and input and actually defended your points you would have people willing to converse with you. If you actually discussed and didn't personally attack everything evert 5 seconds people would actually respond to you normally. This ain't that complicated man you're just dense as shit. 

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9 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Latter would've been god-tier. A complete counter to fruity stuff like jetpack and PV. Free counter to free info/movement. Glad teleportation just "became" thrusters.

Would be funny if that became the most popular AA. Everyone in a game is running around disrupting AAs that don't exist.

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11 hours ago, VinnyMendoza said:

As for the second part, way to cherry pick dishonestly without reading the full piece. I have no time for this bullshit. You know what I meant, continue trolling if you want and I'll ignore you from here on out. 

No, I legitimately have no idea how creating three functionally identical weapons is supposed to eliminate redundancy. Your words.

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On 3/17/2019 at 11:13 AM, careh said:

Differences don't have to be meaningful in the sense that they would be with a weapon from a different catagory. Variety over the entire sandbox is positive but redundancy within a certain catagory is a massively overrated issue that comes purely from a competitive standpoint. The proliferation of BR games shows that any kind of confusion or difficulty reading the game doesn't detract from the overall enjoyment or popularity, if anything it shows that modern audiences are able to read the differences better than people give them credit for and the overall sandbox reachs a natural equilibrium.

Positives

  • Small skill curve where people can juice the most out of each weapons properties, however small, at an individual level (more time to potentially master the game) and competitive level - see CSGO Aug development.
  • Variety in aesthetic - map to map weapon sets as has been explained previously
  • Complementary weapons for different game modes - DMR natural power increase in BTB etc
  • More weapons for developers to sell content for encouraging them to continue updating the game.
  • Juicy nostalgia hit that doesn't assume the entire fanbase are idiots that simply want the same gun that sounds and looks a little different.
  • More opportunities for content creation - see pubg/apex/fortnite weapon comparison and preference videos and how this is an endless content cycle as balance patches come in.
  • More opportunities to find the route to the perfect utility weapon - I'd rather they roll the dice 5 times and see what we come out with personally.

Negatives

  • A waste of resources - arguable considering it encourages the developer to spend more time overall with the product if they're able to milk the game for longer.
  • It's more cluttered on map - again only if the implementation is that you want to stuff every single weapon in the sandbox into a single map.
  • It's more cluttered in my head - where most of the argument lies, in 'Halo theory'. I can only soothe and tell you it's going to be okm8.

Fixaim's shitposts made this go unnoticed which is a shame because it's actually a good post on the topic from the "other" side of the argument. Personally I would add to negatives that it makes things like picking up weapons and running out of ammo a hassle. This might be a minor point but it's insanely annoying to have one BR mag, then you run over a DMR with two mags and in the next room there's a half empty carbine. Shit's dumb, maybe this could be resolved by all the rifles sharing ammo or something.

IMO in an ideal world every weapon should behave very different from another one in the sandbox. The issue is not just 5 utilities, we also have three rocket launchers, three sniper rifles, 4 dedicated CQC weapons, countless autos etc. So in a sense it's hypocritical to hate on the BR/DMR/Mag/LR/Car redundancy but be okay with all the other duplicates in the sandbox. I'd rather have 10-15 unique weapons that all this fluff, but if it keeps Mr. average casual happy and makes 343 more bucks with skin sales I can see why they're clinging on this overbloated sandbox.

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

Fixaim's shitposts made this go unnoticed which is a shame because it's actually a good post on the topic from the "other" side of the argument. Personally I would add to negatives that it makes things like picking up weapons and running out of ammo a hassle. This might be a minor point but it's insanely annoying to have one BR mag, then you run over a DMR with two mags and in the next room there's a half empty carbine. Shit's dumb, maybe this could be resolved by all the rifles sharing ammo or something.

IMO in an idea world every weapon should behave very different from another one in the sandbox. The issue is not just 5 utilities, we also have three rocket launchers, three sniper rifles, 4 dedicated CQC weapons, countless autos etc. So in a sense it's hypocritical to hate on the BR/DMR/Mag/LR/Car redundancy but be okay with all the other duplicates in the sandbox. I'd rather have 10-15 unique weapons that all this fluff, but if it keeps Mr. average casual happy and makes 343 more bucks with skin sales I can see why.

We don’t need all these unique weapons. In before you get tons of complaints because this weapon doesn’t kill. Can you come up with an idea for a unique weapon? Personally I think the h5 LR is unique in the sense when scoped its 3 shot kill with a slow rate of fire. 

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