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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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23 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Why should the Warthog gunner be safe? It’s your drivers fault for driving so close. The warthog machine turret does high damage, that’s perfectly balanced in my book. Tbh you’re right for the most part.

vehicles in h5 have high power but weak armor so I think that’s a fair compromise.

Ok I’ll admit the banshee flip,turn bs was hugely OP! But still.

I think the warthog gunner should basically have a Tachanka turret from Siege. Total protection from the front, head protection from the sides, and no protection from the rear. With a hitscan precision spawn weapon, it was pretty easy to pick off the gunner, especially from range. That's the problem. The driver can't make any plays when it's that easy to kill the gunner. And remember, the driver has to get somewhat close in order to get kills (which is good), so you can't shit on the driver for trying to make a play. It wasn't a problem in H3 because of the nature of the BR. I'm not saying I want to go back to that, but if we're gonna keep an accurate starting weapon, then the gunner needs more protection. Otherwise the vehicle is useless, as Reach, H4, and pre-BR patch H5 shows us.

Also the H3 Warthog was only as strong as it was because of spread and shot registration on the BR, not projectile. You don't need to baby the fanbase with hitscan weapons in the name of countering vehicles. If the H3 BR had no spread, it would have been plenty easy enough to kill the gunner. You don't need hitscan for Christ's sake. Just look at CE. Tell me it isn't easy as shit to kill the gunner. You make it sound like a little red reticle leading is asking too much of the player. It's not.

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

I think the warthog gunner should basically have a Tachanka turret from Siege. Total protection from the front, head protection from the sides, and no protection from the rear. With a hitscan precision spawn weapon, it was pretty easy to pick off the gunner, especially from range. That's the problem. The driver can't make any plays when it's that easy to kill the gunner. And remember, the driver has to get somewhat close in order to get kills (which is good), so you can't shit on the driver for trying to make a play. It wasn't a problem in H3 because of the nature of the BR. I'm not saying I want to go back to that, but if we're gonna keep an accurate starting weapon, then the gunner needs more protection. Otherwise the vehicle is useless, as Reach, H4, and pre-BR patch H5 shows us.

Also the H3 Warthog was only as strong as it was because of spread and shot registration on the BR, not projectile. You don't need to baby the fanbase with hitscan weapons in the name of countering vehicles. If the H3 BR had no spread, it would have been plenty easy enough to kill the gunner. You don't need hitscan for Christ's sake. Just look at CE. Tell me it isn't easy as shit to kill the gunner. You make it sound like a little red reticle leading is asking too much of the player. It's not.

As someone mentioned earlier, the CE bullets travel twice as fast as the H3 ones 

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1 hour ago, Hard Way said:

I think the warthog gunner should basically have a Tachanka turret from Siege. Total protection from the front, head protection from the sides, and no protection from the rear. With a hitscan precision spawn weapon, it was pretty easy to pick off the gunner, especially from range. That's the problem. The driver can't make any plays when it's that easy to kill the gunner. And remember, the driver has to get somewhat close in order to get kills (which is good), so you can't shit on the driver for trying to make a play. It wasn't a problem in H3 because of the nature of the BR. I'm not saying I want to go back to that, but if we're gonna keep an accurate starting weapon, then the gunner needs more protection. Otherwise the vehicle is useless, as Reach, H4, and pre-BR patch H5 shows us.

Also the H3 Warthog was only as strong as it was because of spread and shot registration on the BR, not projectile. You don't need to baby the fanbase with hitscan weapons in the name of countering vehicles. If the H3 BR had no spread, it would have been plenty easy enough to kill the gunner. You don't need hitscan for Christ's sake. Just look at CE. Tell me it isn't easy as shit to kill the gunner. You make it sound like a little red reticle leading is asking too much of the player. It's not.

Like what the guy above me said, CEs bullets travel faster, this basically acts like a hitscan weapon depending on the range.   In halo reach the warthog was plenty strong even the TU which basically was as good as zero bloom if the connection was green bar. No joke you didn’t have to pace your shots at all on 85% depending on the connection. I think If reach released with the TU settings it’d of been liked more by the comp community. Although I wouldn’t mind some front protection and what not. I think like shields or something be a nice  idea

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The BR on halo online travels at a faster rate which is why it’s hit reg is so good, it got even better when it was made hitscan in 0.6. The higher fire rate made the hit Reg better, and it still had the bs spread.

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10 hours ago, Knighty Knight said:

eldewrito was a blast

If only M$ didn’t claim copy right and shit. They only did it because the halo online pop hit 20k! 

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7 hours ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

If only M$ didn’t claim copy right and shit. They only did it because the halo online pop hit 20k! 

Or, yunno, the game infringed on different copyrights and distributed leaked assets illegally, lol. Had nothing to do with popularity, bar maybe how long it took to PR it nicely.

20 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I think the warthog gunner should basically have a Tachanka turret from Siege. Total protection from the front, head protection from the sides, and no protection from the rear. With a hitscan precision spawn weapon, it was pretty easy to pick off the gunner, especially from range. That's the problem. The driver can't make any plays when it's that easy to kill the gunner. And remember, the driver has to get somewhat close in order to get kills (which is good), so you can't shit on the driver for trying to make a play. It wasn't a problem in H3 because of the nature of the BR. I'm not saying I want to go back to that, but if we're gonna keep an accurate starting weapon, then the gunner needs more protection. Otherwise the vehicle is useless, as Reach, H4, and pre-BR patch H5 shows us.

Also the H3 Warthog was only as strong as it was because of spread and shot registration on the BR, not projectile. You don't need to baby the fanbase with hitscan weapons in the name of countering vehicles. If the H3 BR had no spread, it would have been plenty easy enough to kill the gunner. You don't need hitscan for Christ's sake. Just look at CE. Tell me it isn't easy as shit to kill the gunner. You make it sound like a little red reticle leading is asking too much of the player. It's not.

How in the hell does one consider pre-patch Halo 5's vehicles useless. Even before the BR got shafted hardcore, the Warthog had a hyper-precise, damage dealing turret, Ghosts could murder you in open space because of their speed, strafe capability, and projectile speed, on top of driver protection, and Banshees, Wraiths, and Scorpions have always been insane. The Banshee was made more insane because of a shield, a quick flip speed, and momentum shooting. Vehicles were so far from useless it's nuts, lmao. The only vehicle to suffer was arguably the Mantis, which suffered from superb spread originally. But I'd rather have that than a vehicle that tanks damage and deals it out like Halo 4's. The Mantis also played a role on only one map, so it's an outlier. 

You could shoot people out of the Warthog's turret, entirely, but I don't see why that's an issue. Nor do I see why the Warthog gunner should have 100% protection against someone they're firing at or targeting. Why should someone who's being shot at be unable to defend themselves at a base level when they're ALREADY at an insane disadvantage, lmao. There IS a game that did this, too. Black Ops 4. The Ajax riot shield gave you a pretty precise, ass-tearing SMG, and a shield that defended you from those very angles. And it was one of the most unfun fucking abilities ever added to the game. Because someone could literally play like an idiot, and you could be a god and do nothing against that cheese ability bar maybe trading with a rocket shot. Because you couldn't deal counter-damage at all from the front. So someone could rush you with minimal consequence. We know this doesn't fucking work in concept, even when you're slower than everyone else. And it'd work less on a vehicle that moves quickly.

This isn't counting the fact the gun on the hog has almost always been stronger than your utility. It's a rapid fire, precise, higher DPS chaingun in everything but maybe CE. And CE is a gameplay outlier too, so I don't really count it, lol. The point of countering a stronger weapon like that should lay in how you're putting yourself at risk by essentially sitting in a turret. You shouldn't be babied with 100% protection just because you got in it. The fact you got IN it is that risk you take. It's the downside. Removing it just makes the Warthog dumber than it already could be, because then you're sitting in a low-risk, high reward bullet sponge of a vehicle that is already easy as hell to use and escape with.

This also doesn't take into account teamshot, team composition, holding angles, the like.

This is not a good idea. 

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3 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Or, yunno, the game infringed on different copyrights and distributed leaked assets illegally, lol. Had nothing to do with popularity, bar maybe how long it took to PR it nicely.

How in the hell does one consider pre-patch Halo 5's vehicles useless. Even before the BR got shafted hardcore, the Warthog had a hyper-precise, damage dealing turret, Ghosts could murder you in open space because of their speed, strafe capability, and projectile speed, on top of driver protection, and Banshees, Wraiths, and Scorpions have always been insane. The Banshee was made more insane because of a shield, a quick flip speed, and momentum shooting. Vehicles were so far from useless it's nuts, lmao. The only vehicle to suffer was arguably the Mantis, which suffered from superb spread originally. But I'd rather have that than a vehicle that tanks damage and deals it out like Halo 4's. The Mantis also played a role on only one map, so it's an outlier. 

You could shoot people out of the Warthog's turret, entirely, but I don't see why that's an issue. Nor do I see why the Warthog gunner should have 100% protection against someone they're firing at or targeting. Why should someone who's being shot at be unable to defend themselves at a base level when they're ALREADY at an insane disadvantage, lmao. There IS a game that did this, too. Black Ops 4. The Ajax riot shield gave you a pretty precise, ass-tearing SMG, and a shield that defended you from those very angles. And it was one of the most unfun fucking abilities ever added to the game. Because someone could literally play like an idiot, and you could be a god and do nothing against that cheese ability bar maybe trading with a rocket shot. Because you couldn't deal counter-damage at all from the front. So someone could rush you with minimal consequence. We know this doesn't fucking work in concept, even when you're slower than everyone else. And it'd work less on a vehicle that moves quickly.

This isn't counting the fact the gun on the hog has almost always been stronger than your utility. It's a rapid fire, precise, higher DPS chaingun in everything but maybe CE. And CE is a gameplay outlier too, so I don't really count it, lol. The point of countering a stronger weapon like that should lay in how you're putting yourself at risk by essentially sitting in a turret. You shouldn't be babied with 100% protection just because you got in it. The fact you got IN it is that risk you take. It's the downside. Removing it just makes the Warthog dumber than it already could be, because then you're sitting in a low-risk, high reward bullet sponge of a vehicle that is already easy as hell to use and escape with.

This also doesn't take into account teamshot, team composition, holding angles, the like.

This is not a good idea. 

Tbh a simple Aim assist Nerf could of been nice or pistol only btb, and in the customs I’ve played the hog was quite useful.

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7 hours ago, TheIcePrincess said:

Or, yunno, the game infringed on different copyrights and distributed leaked assets illegally, lol. Had nothing to do with popularity, bar maybe how long it took to PR it nicely.

How in the hell does one consider pre-patch Halo 5's vehicles useless. Even before the BR got shafted hardcore, the Warthog had a hyper-precise, damage dealing turret, Ghosts could murder you in open space because of their speed, strafe capability, and projectile speed, on top of driver protection, and Banshees, Wraiths, and Scorpions have always been insane. The Banshee was made more insane because of a shield, a quick flip speed, and momentum shooting. Vehicles were so far from useless it's nuts, lmao. The only vehicle to suffer was arguably the Mantis, which suffered from superb spread originally. But I'd rather have that than a vehicle that tanks damage and deals it out like Halo 4's. The Mantis also played a role on only one map, so it's an outlier. 

You could shoot people out of the Warthog's turret, entirely, but I don't see why that's an issue. Nor do I see why the Warthog gunner should have 100% protection against someone they're firing at or targeting. Why should someone who's being shot at be unable to defend themselves at a base level when they're ALREADY at an insane disadvantage, lmao. There IS a game that did this, too. Black Ops 4. The Ajax riot shield gave you a pretty precise, ass-tearing SMG, and a shield that defended you from those very angles. And it was one of the most unfun fucking abilities ever added to the game. Because someone could literally play like an idiot, and you could be a god and do nothing against that cheese ability bar maybe trading with a rocket shot. Because you couldn't deal counter-damage at all from the front. So someone could rush you with minimal consequence. We know this doesn't fucking work in concept, even when you're slower than everyone else. And it'd work less on a vehicle that moves quickly.

This isn't counting the fact the gun on the hog has almost always been stronger than your utility. It's a rapid fire, precise, higher DPS chaingun in everything but maybe CE. And CE is a gameplay outlier too, so I don't really count it, lol. The point of countering a stronger weapon like that should lay in how you're putting yourself at risk by essentially sitting in a turret. You shouldn't be babied with 100% protection just because you got in it. The fact you got IN it is that risk you take. It's the downside. Removing it just makes the Warthog dumber than it already could be, because then you're sitting in a low-risk, high reward bullet sponge of a vehicle that is already easy as hell to use and escape with.

This also doesn't take into account teamshot, team composition, holding angles, the like.

This is not a good idea. 

I was only talking about the Warthog in H5, so everything you said that isn’t is irrelevant.

Putting a Warthog to use on Deadlock, Scavenger, Altar, or basically anything was a death sentence for the gunner. It was useless as an offensive tool. After a few months no one even bothered anymore.

On most maps the gunner is exposed to fire from tons of angles at once. If he has no protection from any of them, it’s too easy to pick him, and the vehicle becomes unusable. I’m not saying he’s invincible from the front, I’m saying he takes normal vehicle damage from the front. Big difference, especially with potentially 8 people trying to kill you.

Remember how unviable the Warthog was as an offensive tool at launch. Keep the accurate utility. Now present your idea for how to make it a viable asset to the team. 

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Warthog unviable? Lmao what. The thing shredded and always has. Vehicles already have fucking nutty mobility without any damage output. They've always been more than viable they're literally required. You'll never do shit against an even team if they use them and you don't. Like what. A warthog gunner getting melted by multiple people is just dogshit positioning and no map presence for your team. If more than one person is shooting at a warthog that leaves the rest of the team with a numbers advantage and the ability to control the map easier. Because everyone is focusing a vehicle. It's the same issue banshees and shit have. Who cares about their lethality if you need half your team looking at the sky then the enemies can just shoot you while you stare up like a tard. Shit vehicles even force you to play more defensive and hold more passive angles so you don't get ripped. 

Vehicles have always been easier and more dominant than infantry. There is literally no downside to hopping in a warthog every spawn. Just because you can't run a rape train on people super easy in mm doesn't mean it's not viable. Vehicles have been dominant as fuck in literally every game bar MAYBE h4 (mantis btw tho)  

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Mantis in h4 was fucking dope. The h5 mantis sucks unless you count the one with lasers. Tbh many vehicles that war zone had should of been in btb. Hells the oni hog shreds, that of been the perfect balance for a easy to kill gunner but extremely easy to kill chain gun.

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18 hours ago, Hard Way said:

I was only talking about the Warthog in H5, so everything you said that isn’t is irrelevant.

Putting a Warthog to use on Deadlock, Scavenger, Altar, or basically anything was a death sentence for the gunner. It was useless as an offensive tool. After a few months no one even bothered anymore.

On most maps the gunner is exposed to fire from tons of angles at once. If he has no protection from any of them, it’s too easy to pick him, and the vehicle becomes unusable. I’m not saying he’s invincible from the front, I’m saying he takes normal vehicle damage from the front. Big difference, especially with potentially 8 people trying to kill you.

Remember how unviable the Warthog was as an offensive tool at launch. Keep the accurate utility. Now present your idea for how to make it a viable asset to the team. 

You listed the maps where infantry play is dominant because of the design. Hells reach had amazing btb maps and a decent amount were forged. You can’t have closed maps and expect good vehicle play, and yes even rats nest falls into this since most of the battles take place in the bases and the middle. Standoff is one of the best hog maps but it’s also one of the most annoying because of how dominant the hog is. That map is one of the only times I’d veto BR starts in the TS playlist. 

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18 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Warthog unviable? Lmao what. The thing shredded and always has. Vehicles already have fucking nutty mobility without any damage output. They've always been more than viable they're literally required. You'll never do shit against an even team if they use them and you don't. Like what. A warthog gunner getting melted by multiple people is just dogshit positioning and no map presence for your team. If more than one person is shooting at a warthog that leaves the rest of the team with a numbers advantage and the ability to control the map easier. Because everyone is focusing a vehicle. It's the same issue banshees and shit have. Who cares about their lethality if you need half your team looking at the sky then the enemies can just shoot you while you stare up like a tard. Shit vehicles even force you to play more defensive and hold more passive angles so you don't get ripped. 

Vehicles have always been easier and more dominant than infantry. There is literally no downside to hopping in a warthog every spawn. Just because you can't run a rape train on people super easy in mm doesn't mean it's not viable. Vehicles have been dominant as fuck in literally every game bar MAYBE h4 (mantis btw tho)  

H4 has the least vehicle centric btb for sure. Granted, that's because the loadouts and killstreaks overcorrected the imbalance between players and vehicles to a ridiculous degree. 

 

I'm still of the belief that strong vehicles that have specific weakpoints that can be exploited with spawn weapons only would be fun to explore.

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2 minutes ago, Mr Grim said:

H4 has the least vehicle centric btb for sure. Granted, that's because the loadouts and killstreaks overcorrected the imbalance between players and vehicles to a ridiculous degree. 

 

I'm still of the belief that strong vehicles that have specific weakpoints that can be exploited with spawn weapons only would be fun to explore.

Yeah it’s called the Wasp, yet the morons in BTB can’t get a clue to shoot it’s wind turbines. That vehicle dies so quick if you shoot at it’s weak spot. 

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On 2/21/2019 at 8:45 AM, Fixaimingsorry said:

If only M$ didn’t claim copy right and shit. They only did it because the halo online pop hit 20k! 

They were within their rights to do this and it was only a matter of time.

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1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

They were within their rights to do this and it was only a matter of time.

they werent super dicks about it neither so idgi - just ask someone who has it LOL

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20 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

I was only talking about the Warthog in H5, so everything you said that isn’t is irrelevant.

Putting a Warthog to use on Deadlock, Scavenger, Altar, or basically anything was a death sentence for the gunner. It was useless as an offensive tool. After a few months no one even bothered anymore.

On most maps the gunner is exposed to fire from tons of angles at once. If he has no protection from any of them, it’s too easy to pick him, and the vehicle becomes unusable. I’m not saying he’s invincible from the front, I’m saying he takes normal vehicle damage from the front. Big difference, especially with potentially 8 people trying to kill you.

Remember how unviable the Warthog was as an offensive tool at launch. Keep the accurate utility. Now present your idea for how to make it a viable asset to the team. 

The gunner being exposed, and a large target works when they have a death machine in their hands, on top of enhanced mobility. A lack of protection for an easy-ass turret is a pretty good trade-off, lol. 

Mind you, just because 8 people exist on a map doesn't mean 8 will focus fire on a vehicle. Not everyone's full partying, or coordinating. Some are already occupied. The potential being there doesn't mean it'll happen. And even if they do, that's just focus being diverted from the actual main goal of the game, meaning the team being focused on literally gets more of an advantage in being able to move up. Even WITHOUT killing people. Because the presence means more than baseline kills. And all vehicles have this. 

1 hour ago, Mr Grim said:

H4 has the least vehicle centric btb for sure. Granted, that's because the loadouts and killstreaks overcorrected the imbalance between players and vehicles to a ridiculous degree. 

I'm still of the belief that strong vehicles that have specific weakpoints that can be exploited with spawn weapons only would be fun to explore.

I'd say it corrected it best. Because anything you spawned with in Halo 4 were already map pickups in past games, making that a matter of convenience, and Ordnance really only served to give both sides a counter-vehicle weapon over an imbalanced fight over one Laser in the middle of Valhalla, for example. 

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Okay, am I the only one that remembers how easy it was to kill Warthog gunners at H5 launch? Like, am I crazy? That shit was trivial. You were a fool if you tried to use Warthog in a legit game. Did everyone just forget Deadlock? Until they nerfed the BR, the Warthog was a huge load of nothing on that map. It was flag transport, period.

I mean, yeah, the warthog had a strong turret, but unless you're in ideal range it still had a pretty long kill time. Meanwhile you can die in 4 shots from almost anywhere, and facing your target barely even protects you. And, okay, the warthog can go fast, but does it really matter when the cover is so far away? It's not like the Warthog is peak-shooting you. He's way the fuck out in the open if he wants to actually kill anything. It's like we didn't even play the same game. Killing the gunner was a joke. I know you remember that. You've just settled into this mindset that all vehicles are OP and all vehicles need to either disappear or be nerfed into the dirt. The bias really shows when you try to claim with a straight face that the H5 Warthog gunner was a viable choice against competent players with the launch BR. It wasn't. You're fucking high.

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46 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

Okay, am I the only one that remembers how easy it was to kill Warthog gunners at H5 launch? Like, am I crazy? That shit was trivial. You were a fool if you tried to use Warthog in a legit game. Did everyone just forget Deadlock? Until they nerfed the BR, the Warthog was a huge load of nothing on that map. It was flag transport, period.

I mean, yeah, the warthog had a strong turret, but unless you're in ideal range it still had a pretty long kill time. Meanwhile you can die in 4 shots from almost anywhere, and facing your target barely even protects you. And, okay, the warthog can go fast, but does it really matter when the cover is so far away? It's not like the Warthog is peak-shooting you. He's way the fuck out in the open if he wants to actually kill anything. It's like we didn't even play the same game. Killing the gunner was a joke. I know you remember that. You've just settled into this mindset that all vehicles are OP and all vehicles need to either disappear or be nerfed into the dirt. The bias really shows when you try to claim with a straight face that the H5 Warthog gunner was a viable choice against competent players with the launch BR. It wasn't. You're fucking high.

A flag transport that could literally rally flags quickly and keep that aforementioned presence on the map that kept people shooting at it and not those on the ground. Like, yeah, it matters it's fast when it could literally scoot across the map faster than anything else. The fact it has speed and presence alone makes it a great asset. I've abused that shit every time someone gets in a hog on my team, and have been abused when someone on the enemy team uses one because people are easily distracted. Still doesn't need to kill you to be an asset. 

And killing the gunner could be easy, yeah. But as soon as I had a chaingun trained on me, I was either shredded, or immediately backed off, given descope is a thing. Most of the time, it came down to a "who shot who" first scenario. And I just happened to play like a passive freak who would bait teammates who got slaughtered by this thing while I picked it off with a first shot. 

Finally, I didn't once claim the gunner was a viable choice against competent players. I just said the ease of use of the turret and its power resulting in sacrificed cover and movement speed (Inherently, not while rolling in the jeep) was a fine trade off, lol. Against any team of 8, most vehicles are either gonna be rendered a general non-issue, given callouts, teamshot and the like are a thing, or result in worse snowballs. But that also happens to be the minority of general games, and most of my issues lay in the fact people don't do this. Your only power against a Warthog lays in numbers. On the same side, giving into teamshot for a 'hog just gives the other 6 people on the enemy team freeroam on the map for that brief time a team is tussling with the vehicle, because they're occupied. That presence still exists.

Let's forgo this entire argument for a second. Forget the fact a hog has map presence, already. And can push people back without killing them. Forget its speed. Forget the fact you can have an additional gunner laying fire down.

Just focus on the turret. 

One kill with this turret is literally justification for this thing to exist and have these counters against it when anything below a pure 8v8 scenario turns into a steamroll. You gain a number's advantage's perks exponentially more in BTB because of this. A 6v8 scenario is horrible to be in, with a double kill being more than enough for a collapse to occur. And a Warthog is very capable of two kills in pretty quick succession. Always has been. Being driven to your death as a result of the utility's ease in pegging gunners doesn't stop the Warthog from being able to kill. And being teamshot is still 2+ people having their attention yanked away from the main obj because of a bullet sponge damage dealer. This doesn't count shit like half-fights where someone retreats because they're pushed to one shot, and are either out of the game for a time as their shields come back, or get cleaned up. It doesn't even need to outright kill to initiate these collapses. And given it has higher speed, maneuverability and the like, it literally doesn't need to be more powerful or protected, lol. It has better traits in spades, already.

I don't know what you're expecting. Are you expecting long streaks? I dunno what you want when the Warthog literally fulfills what it needs to already, and the BR nerf has only made it more broken with the inability to kill the gunner reliably off spawn. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, TheIcePrincess said:

The gunner being exposed, and a large target works when they have a death machine in their hands, on top of enhanced mobility. A lack of protection for an easy-ass turret is a pretty good trade-off, lol. 

Mind you, just because 8 people exist on a map doesn't mean 8 will focus fire on a vehicle. Not everyone's full partying, or coordinating. Some are already occupied. The potential being there doesn't mean it'll happen. And even if they do, that's just focus being diverted from the actual main goal of the game, meaning the team being focused on literally gets more of an advantage in being able to move up. Even WITHOUT killing people. Because the presence means more than baseline kills. And all vehicles have this. 

I'd say it corrected it best. Because anything you spawned with in Halo 4 were already map pickups in past games, making that a matter of convenience, and Ordnance really only served to give both sides a counter-vehicle weapon over an imbalanced fight over one Laser in the middle of Valhalla, for example. 

Problem is, because vehicles got shit on so hard they got used way less. Which meant that those ridiculously easy and powerful weapons got used on players way more than they would've under normal circumstances. Normal engagements were a clusterfuck. It was an inefficient way to fix a problem. Never mind the fact that it was literally random. 

This is the same thing armor lock did. Yes, it was a counter to rockets and other stupid power weapons, problem is there are more instances in which that ability gets abused than was initially intended. You can say it "fixed" a problem, but how many more did it bring?

Granted, it's only a problem if you personally dislike they way it plays, which I did. It's like, we can agree that vehicles are op, I just don't think h4 solved that problem well. There are other ways to deal with it.

 

 

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Will Hard Way stop beating his head against the wall known as Ice Princess?

Will we finally achieve warthog balance agreeance? 

Does anyone actually care about vehicle balance?

Find out on next week’s episode of Borderline Dead Threads. Featuring a guest appearance by General Lack of Interest! Stay tuned! 

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The whole 'against competent players' argument is pointless because of no party matching, and how infrequently randoms use mics in game chat. The 'vehicles are op' bit is also kind of pointless because there's no fun way to make vehicles and have them not be stronger than players. You can do stuff like a carrier hornet and warthog, but it also removes 95% of everything else in BTB. Not that I care too much about vehicle balance except when a vehicle is near indestructible AND does massive damage. 

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6 hours ago, OG Nick said:

The whole 'against competent players' argument is pointless because of no party matching, and how infrequently randoms use mics in game chat. The 'vehicles are op' bit is also kind of pointless because there's no fun way to make vehicles and have them not be stronger than players. You can do stuff like a carrier hornet and warthog, but it also removes 95% of everything else in BTB. Not that I care too much about vehicle balance except when a vehicle is near indestructible AND does massive damage. 

This is kind of why I can understand the "remove them" argument. Some people just don't like them in principle.

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7 hours ago, OG Nick said:

The whole 'against competent players' argument is pointless because of no party matching, and how infrequently randoms use mics in game chat. The 'vehicles are op' bit is also kind of pointless because there's no fun way to make vehicles and have them not be stronger than players. You can do stuff like a carrier hornet and warthog, but it also removes 95% of everything else in BTB. Not that I care too much about vehicle balance except when a vehicle is near indestructible AND does massive damage. 

Reach banshee

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