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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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45 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

H2 social is pretty brutal solo because of the MMR matchmaking. The stronger player you are the worse the teammates get, it gets to the point where you regularly drop 30/40 kills in a slayer and still lose.

But it’s even worse when you grab another decent player, because you just steam roll everyone and it gets boring real quick. So I can’t even imagine running a team of four in social h2, major yawns. That statement that all the strong players are on project cartographer is extremely questionable, I know several people who can run circles around most h2 players and they don’t like the idea of a modded h2 on pc with that small of player pool.

Not calling out those dedicated players, I’ve matched most of them in MCC over the years and they are skilled but they’re not the best. Maybe a more accurate description is “project cartographer has the highest density of establisehd h2 players”. I don’t know I just find it weird to claim to be the best on basically a modded pc port. 

Mcc is really easy to hop on and play. Especially if you get on for btb or a dif game then say fuck it lets search 4s. Tho im highly doubting the statement that there are people who run circles on the h2v kids. Those guys are the people who would make me go 8-30 in an obj game (tho thats me not knowing how to lead the br online, put me on 700 and im good chief).  There are plenty of people who can pub stomp in h2, if ur good at h3, you can pub stomp in h2 if you know even the mere basics of the game. Theres also the people who are too stupid/lazy to set up h2v. 

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1 hour ago, Riddler said:

Mcc is really easy to hop on and play. Especially if you get on for btb or a dif game then say fuck it lets search 4s. Tho im highly doubting the statement that there are people who run circles on the h2v kids. Those guys are the people who would make me go 8-30 in an obj game (tho thats me not knowing how to lead the br online, put me on 700 and im good chief).  There are plenty of people who can pub stomp in h2, if ur good at h3, you can pub stomp in h2 if you know even the mere basics of the game. Theres also the people who are too stupid/lazy to set up h2v. 

I didn’t say they can run circles around the h2v kids, I said most players in general. They are for all intents and purposes “strong players”. They can easily compete on the h2v people level, no doubt in my mind at all. 

Like I said it’s strange to claim to be the best of a niche port that most halo players haven’t heard of. It sort of reminds me of the xbc era of h2, where similar statements of superiority was made. A ton of h2 xbc players were exposed when mcc launched.

It’s really hard to truly gauge your skill or really improve in a 30 player or so pool. I’d rather see how I stack up with the larger player base of xbl. There’s a absolute crap ton of highly skilled players who strictly do matchmaking social or have no interest in the competitive scene and speed run. It just how it goes in online games. You don’t know what you don’t know. 

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11 hours ago, OG Nick said:

You can't honestly believe "every single strong H2 Player" is on something I only heard of because I'm on TB and from no one else can you? And yes they do call out, maybe not every group of 4 searching does but certainly some do. If you honestly think there are no good H2 players that call out in the social playlist with other at least decent people then you are delusional at best, in denial at worst. 

The point isn't even that good people play social, it's that people play social like it's ranked even when a ranked playlist for that game exists (H2/H3 mainly).

I'd believe it if someone from that community is literally telling you the reality of the scene.  If you've never heard of Project Cartographer...well that doesn't surprise me if you're not a part of the competitive H2 community.  That is basically like an H1 MCC player saying they've never heard of NHE so therefore there can't be many good players on it.  

Now I definitely agree that there are teams of four searching H2 in social and trying harder than they should be.  But here's the kicker, if you're calling out in social MCC games...then you're most likely a lower level player.  Good H2 kids aren't wasting their time doing those things because it is not rewarding nor is it worth our time.  At the end of the day what you yourself consider to be "good" is not what people more involved in the game may consider "good"; it is very subjective.  Regardless, I don't support people nor teams calling out and sweating in social matches because that's not the place for it. However on the flip side, it is no longer possible for those same competitive minded H2 players to find ranked H2 Arena matches so unless they have a PC, there is no outlet for them.  
 

1 hour ago, Stoppabl3 said:

H2 social is pretty brutal solo because of the MMR matchmaking. The stronger player you are the worse the teammates get, it gets to the point where you regularly drop 30/40 kills in a slayer and still lose.

But it’s even worse when you grab another decent player, because you just steam roll everyone and it gets boring real quick. So I can’t even imagine running a team of four in social h2, major yawns. That statement that all the strong players are on project cartographer is extremely questionable, I know several people who can run circles around most h2 players and they don’t like the idea of a modded h2 on pc with that small of player pool.

Not calling out those dedicated players, I’ve matched most of them in MCC over the years and they are skilled but they’re not the best. Maybe a more accurate description is “project cartographer has the highest density of establisehd h2 players”. I don’t know I just find it weird to claim to be the best on basically a modded pc port. 

I've experienced the MMR effect in CE/H2 social games but has 343 ever officially came out and said that this system was in place for MCC?  
  
And just out of curiosity who are these several people that can "run circles around most H2 players"?  Do they stream?  Do they upload content to Youtube?  Have they ever competed in a LAN tournament?  I fully understood that many console Halo players shun the idea of a better build of H2 existing on PC; but they usually have not given it a shot.  This same reasoning applies to my NHE example above.  Just because there is a smaller player pool on these modded ports, does not mean those spaces don't contain the most skilled players.

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The difference between this H2V thing and NHE is people who play CE 2v2 MCC know there is a better version people still play, not a lot of people but people in the vein of the original. Even playing MCC I knew the best version was the original, same for H2, but I knew people still played CE. Props to whoever on the H2V mod, but it's really niche. 

 

And I was never arguing that there aren't good players that don't call out, I am arguing that the idea of there being no teams of 4 with skilled H2 players calling out is like saying 343 didn't screw over the Halo community with MCC. 

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38 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

I didn’t say they can run circles around the h2v kids, I said most players in general. They are for all intents and purposes “strong players”. They can easily compete on the h2v people level, no doubt in my mind at all. 

Like I said it’s strange to claim to be the best of a niche port that most halo players haven’t heard of. It sort of reminds me of the xbc era of h2, where similar statements of superiority was made. A ton of h2 xbc players were exposed when mcc launched.

It’s really hard to truly gauge your skill or really improve in a 30 player or so pool. I’d rather see how I stack up with the larger player base of xbc. There’s a absolute crap ton of highly skilled players who strictly do matchmaking social or have no interest in the competitive scene and speed run. It just how it goes in online games. You don’t know what you don’t know. 

 

24 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

The difference between this H2V thing and NHE is people who play CE 2v2 MCC know there is a better version people still play, not a lot of people but people in the vein of the original. Even playing MCC I knew the best version was the original, same for H2, but I knew people still played CE. Props to whoever on the H2V mod, but it's really niche. 

 

And I was never arguing that there aren't good players that don't call out, I am arguing that the idea of there being no teams of 4 with skilled H2 players calling out is like saying 343 didn't screw over the Halo community with MCC. 

Indeed, XBC Nation was never that strong.  

And I would love to see an example or two of these "highly skilled" H2 players that only play social on MCC but still communicate.  But maybe the bar has just been lowered tremendously over the past few years.  

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1 hour ago, Squatting Bear said:

  And just out of curiosity who are these several people that can "run circles around most H2 players"?  Do they stream?  Do they upload content to Youtube?  Have they ever competed in a LAN tournament?  I fully understood that many console Halo players shun the idea of a better build of H2 existing on PC; but they usually have not given it a shot.  This same reasoning applies to my NHE example above.  Just because there is a smaller player pool on these modded ports, does not mean those spaces don't contain the most skilled players.

 CE isn’t comparable because unfortunately CE wasnt an online game on release. H2 had the opportunity to have an initial large player pool that srunk overtime. Meaning that they were many “strong players” who played against other “strong players” for years online who have no interest in playing H2v.  The same can’t be said for CE, there’s no comparable outlet. 

I could literally link you video proof of the players beating members of project cartographer in h2 but I hate getting into those debates and refuse to go down this e-pen measuring contest. You’ve made the extraordinary claim, so I think it’s more appropriate for you to prove that they’re no strong players on mcc or that the players who stopped playing halo weren’t ever good to begin with. 

I’ll concede that they’re more skilled players on h2v then MCC, I hop on from time to time and it’s a wasteland of tumbless players. It’s part of the reason I don’t play as much but to say that they’re  NO skilled players on MCC at all is baffling to me. 

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11 hours ago, Nokt said:

I don't think he meant that literally, but yes, a lot of pretty good players switched over to cartographer. Some remain on MCC, some just stopped playing all together.

I would agree to this. I think it’s a much better way to put it. 

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Sorry for the multiple post but I want to state that I respect what the people are doing over at h2v, I have no personal issues with them at all but I have played and know people who have played against them. I know the tendency of little elite niche groups to grow a big head and think they’re the best who ever touched the sticks, the Xbc group for example. I just want to keep things in perspective, thanks to 343 H2 is dying or is already a dead game. Frankly even CEs competitive scene is much larger then h2 at the moment. So let’s keep it real.

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25 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

 CE isn’t comparable because unfortunately CE wasnt an online game on release. H2 had the opportunity to have an initial large player pool that srunk overtime. Meaning that they were many “strong players” who played against other “strong players” for years online who have no interest in playing H2v.  The same can’t be said for CE, there’s no comparable outlet. 

I could literally link you video proof of the players beating members of project cartographer in h2 but I hate getting into those debates and refuse to go down this e-pen measuring contest. You’ve made the extraordinary claim, so I think it’s more appropriate for you to prove that they’re no strong players on mcc or that the players who stopped playing halo weren’t ever good to begin with. 

I’ll concede that they’re are more skilled players on h2v then MCC, I hop on from time to time and it’s a wasteland of tumbless players. It’s part of the reason I don’t play as much but to say that they’re  NO skilled players on MCC at all is baffling to me. 

I hear you, although let's remember that the H2 version that exists on MCC was a port of Halo 2 Vista.  On the other hand, Project Cartographer plays more like the original version of the game than MCC or H2V, this is why the competitive community transitioned over to it...because the mod is more faithful to OG H2 than what 343 was able to give us.

If you want evidence that there are almost no truly strong H2 players on MCC just go into ranked Arena and tell me how long it takes you to find a match.  You want more proof?  Show me a streamed 4v4 series played on MCC in the last 30 days.  A third example?  Show me a single PGCR of a player trying in social who has actually made money from playing H2.  This is like the H3 kids who sweat TF out of Lone Wolves, Radar Doubles, and Arena Slayer.  Yes they are respectable and good players in their own element; but when we start talking about Hardcore settings and tournament play, those people get absolutely drowned.

Honestly I think we're just getting caught up in the semantics of terms like "good", "strong" and "highly skilled".   But make no mistake, the upper echelon of 4v4 H2 players have existed on Project Cartographer since circa 2017.  There are levels to this game that can't be found in anything that has come after it, and the player base on MCC consists of the lowest.

Now I would never claim that the players who stopped caring about the game were never good to begin with.  '07 FB would still most likely 11-0 every squad that could be formed against them.  But you are correct H2 has the smallest competitive scene out of the three classic Halo games and some of the perplexing egos that have developed from not having a tournament outlet is frankly disgusting.

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Yeah that myth was proven wrong once neighbor hopped on xbc pre mcc and was always the one winning the games. Ghost was still also in the upper echelon. 

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Project cartographer has the better competitive scene because they have dedicated servers and better players than typically run H2 on MCC. Call it niche if you want but I've watched several higher tier pros stop by to join their matches and lose games and go negative. Nobody is saying these guys are secret ogres or something as most already have thorough credentials on the MLG pro scene. You're wasting everyone's time debating over this.

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It honestly sucks to be a h2 fan right now. You’re stuck playing a broken H2 or ditching the platform altogether and play h2v. H2v seems like a major upgrade but it shouldn’t have to come down to this. We had a opportunity to put all H2 players in one place and although MCC is now a somewhat functional game I’m still salty that H2 is even in a worse state now then before the patch.

Most halo players are completely unaware at how broken H2 on mcc is and 343 refuses to address it. Just sucks, this game was originally supposed to be only H2. Funny how things work out. 

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5 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

It honestly sucks to be a h2 fan right now. You’re stuck playing a broken H2 or ditching the platform altogether and play h2v. H2v seems like a major upgrade but it shouldn’t have to come down to this. We had a opportunity to put all H2 players in one place and although MCC is now a somewhat functional game I’m still salty that H2 is even in a worse state now then before the patch.

Most halo players are completely unaware at how broken H2 on mcc is and 343 refuses to address it. Just sucks, this game was originally supposed to be only H2. Funny how things work out. 

MCC is the H3 Collection after all

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33 minutes ago, Stoppabl3 said:

It honestly sucks to be a h2 fan right now. You’re stuck playing a broken H2 or ditching the platform altogether and play h2v. H2v seems like a major upgrade but it shouldn’t have to come down to this. We had a opportunity to put all H2 players in one place and although MCC is now a somewhat functional game I’m still salty that H2 is even in a worse state now then before the patch.

Most halo players are completely unaware at how broken H2 on mcc is and 343 refuses to address it. Just sucks, this game was originally supposed to be only H2. Funny how things work out. 

Couldn't have said it better myself.  And just to add some substance to my words, I implore you guys to check out some of the H2PC streamers, a lot of these guys scrim on a consistent basis but average very little viewership:

twitch.tv/havok_live

twitch.tv/alen

twitch.tv/zildj

twitch.tv/realonemvc

twitch.tv/hihurricane

twitch.tv/stormy_v2

twitch.tv/redismagik

twitch.tv/fak3t1ttys

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Can vouch for alen & hurricane.

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13 hours ago, Squatting Bear said:

Couldn't have said it better myself.  And just to add some substance to my words, I implore you guys to check out some of the H2PC streamers, a lot of these guys scrim on a consistent basis but average very little viewership:

twitch.tv/havok_live

twitch.tv/alen

twitch.tv/zildj

twitch.tv/realonemvc

twitch.tv/hihurricane

twitch.tv/stormy_v2

twitch.tv/redismagik

twitch.tv/fak3t1ttys

ttv/

jmosdef

zeedo

wyldwyld

k1dmode

Puffypuffypuffy   (Famous)

IceVayne

HS_MoNsTeR

Downtowndrive   (Drivnn)

Quadding   (Xer) Sickest sniper I've ever seen

SwiftKill_

GregoR

slipzzzzzz

chrizum

L_A__cOn_420   (c0nfidential)

Squanto__

sk0ls

ZyfeLIVE

Neighbor and Dersky joined the crew for a stretch, too. These guys have been incubating high level H2 talent for a long time. While there aren't really any set teams, they've been doing god's work at building a scene and evolving the gameplay for MLG 07 gametypes. There are other good players but I don't know their twitch channels if they have em (Sup Maynes is a notable one who has an interesting play style and drops huge numbers consistently, had almost 90 kills in a middy bomb game with stacked teams). I'd put many combinations of these dudes against a lot of top teams back in the day.

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8 hours ago, RVG E Nomini said:

wyldwyld

Oh shit, if this is who I think it is then we go way back. 

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8 hours ago, RVG E Nomini said:

ttv/

jmosdef

zeedo

wyldwyld

k1dmode

Puffypuffypuffy   (Famous)

IceVayne

HS_MoNsTeR

Downtowndrive   (Drivnn)

Quadding   (Xer) Sickest sniper I've ever seen

SwiftKill_

GregoR

slipzzzzzz

chrizum

L_A__cOn_420   (c0nfidential)

Squanto__

sk0ls

ZyfeLIVE

Neighbor and Dersky joined the crew for a stretch, too. These guys have been incubating high level H2 talent for a long time. While there aren't really any set teams, they've been doing god's work at building a scene and evolving the gameplay for MLG 07 gametypes. There are other good players but I don't know their twitch channels if they have em (Sup Maynes is a notable one who has an interesting play style and drops huge numbers consistently, had almost 90 kills in a middy bomb game with stacked teams). I'd put many combinations of these dudes against a lot of top teams back in the day.

I think you got pretty much everyone, excellent list.  All of these dudes play at a top 8/top 16 level in 4v4.  Just wish we had some kind of organization or money tournaments.

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1 hour ago, Squatting Bear said:

I think you got pretty much everyone, excellent list.  All of these dudes play at a top 8/top 16 level in 4v4.  Just wish we had some kind of organization or money tournaments.

They organize everything through discord and I got kicked out of their channel for inactivity (Halo 1 is too good so I ditched the H2 customs scene). There was a money tournament a little less than a year ago that was entertaining to watch but it was stressful on the group as a whole because there are people who haven't learned how to deal with their egos. The human experiment rolls on in this world.

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1 hour ago, RVG E Nomini said:

They organize everything through discord and I got kicked out of their channel for inactivity (Halo 1 is too good so I ditched the H2 customs scene). There was a money tournament a little less than a year ago that was entertaining to watch but it was stressful on the group as a whole because there are people who haven't learned how to deal with their egos. The human experiment rolls on in this world.

Yeah. The admins dont realize that kicking inactive people doesnt make your scene more active. Actually makes it less active when one person cant hop on every few months to play a few fames. 

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3 hours ago, Riddler said:

Yeah. The admins dont realize that kicking inactive people doesnt make your scene more active. Actually makes it less active when one person cant hop on every few months to play a few fames. 

I agree to an extent but they make it clear when you join that you should try to be on once every week or two and contribute to the community. It was nice for awhile but I don't miss it much, my skill level wasn't up to par and I don't care to improve it anymore for H2.

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Okay on the topic of this H2V vs MCC nonsense. What I don’t understand is why 343 hasn’t hired the guys who work on Project Cartographer like they did with that guy who used to mod H1 or why the guy’s on PC haven’t shared there fixes with 343i makes no sense to me withhold them.

Like they’re both H2V so there’s no real reason why the fixes they did shouldn’t work on the MCC version and you’d think that they would want to grow the H2 community by having the most accessible version actually play like OG H2.

 

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The best MLG 4's players are on vista, aside from that the vista players range from extremely bad to average. A lot of salty Colombians as well who accuse people of cheating and camping lol.

If you like halo 2 i would recommend getting H2PC, it is better than MCC in every single way possible aside from the low population and matchmaking, but even then it's still easy to just hop into games and play. 

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On 2/9/2019 at 6:30 AM, thdyingbreed said:

Okay on the topic of this H2V vs MCC nonsense. What I don’t understand is why 343 hasn’t hired the guys who work on Project Cartographer like they did with that guy who used to mod H1 or why the guy’s on PC haven’t shared there fixes with 343i makes no sense to me withhold them.

Like they’re both H2V so there’s no real reason why the fixes they did shouldn’t work on the MCC version and you’d think that they would want to grow the H2 community by having the most accessible version actually play like OG H2.

 

1. Not enough out cry.

2. Back to number 1 but specific.

on the forums and Twitter(the media 343 looks at) people talk mostly about h3 hit registration and halo 1 issues. Literally you’ll never see a thread even remotely talking about the damn game, in fact more people talk about wanting h2a to get more maps. 

This is what happens when a community develops the attitude of “I’m just one man what can I do” not realizing that’s how every revolution, group etc gets heard or noticed! Because ONE man decided to say something EVERYONE else was thinking. It is the h2 community’s fault for a lack of updates to it becoming less of a priority!  It’s not that 343 doesn’t want to update h2C, it’s just not a big priority at the current moment. 

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2 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

1. Not enough out cry.

2. Back to number 1 but specific.

on the forums and Twitter(the media 343 looks at) people talk mostly about h3 hit registration and halo 1 issues. Literally you’ll never see a thread even remotely talking about the damn game, in fact more people talk about wanting h2a to get more maps. 

This is what happens when a community develops the attitude of “I’m just one man what can I do” not realizing that’s how every revolution, group etc gets heard or noticed! Because ONE man decided to say something EVERYONE else was thinking. It is the h2 community’s fault for a lack of updates to it becoming less of a priority!  It’s not that 343 doesn’t want to update h2C, it’s just not a big priority at the current moment. 

I mean, I get the mentality from the business side of things. Allocate resources to fixing Halo 3 on top of general game stability as the community that remains likes Halo 3. But that isn't the community's fault CE and 2 are still pretty busted. Most of the complaints for those games have been spoken of during 2014/15. You don't hear much on it anymore because those people who did complain are gone, not that they didn't exist. They tried, got nothing, and left. Or well, they got some fixes, but even with someone from the PC platform on board, didn't do much.

In short, it's not a matter of not trying. 343i just didn't deliver there.

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