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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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8 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I fail to see any proof that maps break down without power weapons lol. And you can't just change what a stalemate is to fit the argument. If 2 teams are constantly engaging and constantly in battle it's not really a stalemate. It's teams contesting for map control. Pit CTF is still teams pushing when no weapons are in play. It's still the same thing there just aren't weapons in one teams hands that makes collapsing, spawn killing and pulling the flag way easier. Variety is such an overrated concept in a competitive game honestly. 

How am I changing what a stalemate is? Its a draw from not being able to move. If both teams are constantly pushing middle on narrows/pit/whatever and neither team being able to break through to the other side that is a draw from not being able to move is it not?

I'm not saying you have to go to 343i levels of variety and make 3 weapons of the exact same archetype to give variety, but yeah I don't want to turn this game into one gun for every single gametype.

 

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4 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Sick 

Also, just a question, do you agree with Ice's sentiment that ordnance drops > on-map power weapons?

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1 minute ago, Nokt said:

How am I changing what a stalemate is? Its a draw from not being able to move. If both teams are constantly pushing middle on narrows/pit/whatever and neither team being able to break through to the other side that is a draw from not being able to move is it not?

I'm not saying you have to go to 343i levels of variety and make 3 weapons of the exact same archetype to give variety, but yeah I don't want to turn this game into one gun for every single gametype.

 

But that literally just means the teams have been playing evenly lmao. That has nothing to do with the map design. It's just an even game. There's  a massive difference between not being able to gain map control in a game where both teams are pushing and a stalemate where neither team will move. Pit TS is a stalemate. A tied Pit flag game is not. One game has people literally not moving at all that's a huge difference. 

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5 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

But that literally just means the teams have been playing evenly lmao. That has nothing to do with the map design. It's just an even game. There's  a massive difference between not being able to gain map control in a game where both teams are pushing and a stalemate where neither team will move. Pit TS is a stalemate. A tied Pit flag game is not. One game has people literally not moving at all that's a huge difference. 

People not moving is a standstill, not a stalemate.

Literally pulled from Merriam-Webster: a contest, dispute, competition, etc., in which neither side can gain an advantage or win

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Just now, Nokt said:

People not moving is a standstill, not a stalemate.

Honestly regardless of these pointless semantics the point remains that obj games will NEVER crawl to a standstill because you have to move to win. In every single obj mode. With or without power weapons people will always be moving. Because you have to. Thats literally all I've been saying but you keep disagreeing with that. And it makes no sense to me. 

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Obj makes you move. Items on map make you move. Put them together for maximum movement.

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19 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

But that literally just means the teams have been playing evenly lmao. That has nothing to do with the map design. It's just an even game. There's  a massive difference between not being able to gain map control in a game where both teams are pushing and a stalemate where neither team will move. Pit TS is a stalemate. A tied Pit flag game is not. One game has people literally not moving at all that's a huge difference. 

Most the cTF games resulted in a cap because one guy sniper two people or rockets or customs. A cap usually never occurs without those items being used.

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2 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

Most the cTF games resulted in a cap because one guy sniper two people or rockets or customs. A cap usually never occurs without those items being used.

Yea which is fucking stupid. I know power weapons make caps easier lol. But people still cap without them. And they still will. Maybe it'll take longer on average to get. Maybe it'll be harder. But I prefer that. 

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11 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Obj makes you move. Items on map make you move. Put them together for maximum movement.

The argument seems to be that while PW make you move, they do so for theoretically bad reasons and or have a negative side effect. 

It's not that they dont make people move.

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1 minute ago, Mr Grim said:

The argument seems to be that while PW make you move, they do so for theoretically bad reasons and or have a negative side effect. 

It's not that they dont make people move.

It's been a weird argument. For me it's just been I prefer the gameplay without them. I know what they add and I know what they take away from the game. I just prefer them without. Lmao that's all it's been this is honestly entertaining tho 

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15 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Obj makes you move. Items on map make you move. Put them together for maximum movement.

How so. When I know the enemy has a rocket in any game, I sure as hell won't be contesting it. And it'll slow me right the hell down. Same for snipe. Both achieve the opposite effect of making me move unless I have them, because why the hell am I gonna challenge a death machine. Why people challenge me with them is beyond me.

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5 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

It's been a weird argument. For me it's just been I prefer the gameplay without them. I know what they add and I know what they take away from the game. I just prefer them without. Lmao that's all it's been this is honestly entertaining tho 

I gotcha dude. I like playing with them just because I like having something to try and control during the match. Granted I mostly play Slayer in these games so maybe I'd see it differently if I played more obj.

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Just now, Mr Grim said:

I gotcha dude. I like playing with them just because I like having something to try and control during the match. Granted I mostly play Slayer in these games so maybe I'd see it differently if I played more obj.

Lol I get why people enjoy it and want it. I know people like variety and flashy plays. I know people like hitting no scopes. It is gun every once in a while. I just don't wanna bother with it in ranked games. 

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3 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Honestly regardless of these pointless semantics the point remains that obj games will NEVER crawl to a standstill because you have to move to win. In every single obj mode. With or without power weapons people will always be moving. Because you have to. Thats literally all I've been saying but you keep disagreeing with that. And it makes no sense to me.  

I mean the whole disagreement spawned from the semantics so maybe not entirely pointless. My point was that certain maps play better and are less prone to stalemates with power weapons. I do agree that standstills will almost never happen in a OBJ game.

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12 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Yikes literally everything you said is false lmaooooooo

Saying “yikes” doesn’t strengthen your position at all. 

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18 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Yea which is fucking stupid. I know power weapons make caps easier lol. But people still cap without them. And they still will. Maybe it'll take longer on average to get. Maybe it'll be harder. But I prefer that. 

We can’t just have games lasting longer. A better utility weapon isn’t changing that and 4v4 CE obj is straight garbage so you can’t even find a good comparison to that. Not everything needs to be about the skill in aiming, a shooter isn’t all about that, and halo never once has been all about that. Considering you believe the game would be better without them(though I’ll disagree) in a competitive environment but would you now advocate for grenade removal? Because grenades basically do what rockets do make kills easier. In fact I’d go as far to say the only reason I usually kill two people by myself is because of grenades. Sure if I face two opponents at once without them I usually only manage to kill one of them since I don’t have time to put my final shots into the other guy. 

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21 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

How so. When I know the enemy has a rocket in any game, I sure as hell won't be contesting it. And it'll slow me right the hell down. Same for snipe. Both achieve the opposite effect of making me move unless I have them, because why the hell am I gonna challenge a death machine. Why people challenge me with them is beyond me.

Because if you don't you hide in your base, die to those weapons, and give up an easy flag cap

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18 minutes ago, Nokt said:

I mean the whole disagreement spawned from the semantics so maybe not entirely pointless. My point was that certain maps play better and are less prone to stalemates with power weapons. I do agree that standstills will almost never happen in a OBJ game.

Slayer will definitely stalemate without power weapons depending on the map i know that thats why I only mentioned obj. Since obj doesn't inherently stagnate I find I prefer the gameplay without power weapons personally. Will it make certain maps at certain points play more slowly? Probably. Pace is always changing and map layouts can promote certain playstyles. The only thing I ever really wanted to argue was people saying that obj gametypes wouldn't work without power weapons. Sure it'll be different but to say it won't work is just being ignorant to other opinions. That's really all  

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13 minutes ago, Fixaimingsorry said:

We can’t just have games lasting longer. A better utility weapon isn’t changing that and 4v4 CE obj is straight garbage so you can’t even find a good comparison to that. Not everything needs to be about the skill in aiming, a shooter isn’t all about that, and halo never once has been all about that. Considering you believe the game would be better without them(though I’ll disagree) in a competitive environment but would you now advocate for grenade removal? Because grenades basically do what rockets do make kills easier. In fact I’d go as far to say the only reason I usually kill two people by myself is because of grenades. Sure if I face two opponents at once without them I usually only manage to kill one of them since I don’t have time to put my final shots into the other guy. 

Removing other weapons doesn't only make the game gunskill. It's still spawn manipulation, map control, and map movement. As well as decision making and team coordination. If you start up a game of H5 1v1 and have shotzzy play on some random ass sens he'll still obliterate most people. Without good gunskill. Because there is way more to it than that. 

And as far as nades go they've been a huge issue in recent games. Their overall strength relative to your starting weapon as well as their overall abundance has made them a huge joke. Watching high level games was almost painful at times seeing people getting constantly nuked by them before they even have a chance to respond. They 100% need to be weaker than they have been. 

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50 minutes ago, OG Nick said:

Because if you don't you hide in your base, die to those weapons, and give up an easy flag cap

If I hide in my base or move forward, I'm probably gonna meet rocks either way and die, and be forced into an 8 second respawn, lol. Not like hiding or charging forward like a dumbass changes the situation's outcome.

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12 minutes ago, TheIcePrincess said:

If I hide in my base or move forward, I'm probably gonna meet rocks either way and die, and be forced into an 8 second respawn, lol. Not like hiding or charging forward like a dumbass changes the situation's outcome.

It can though. Nobody is suggesting just running out like an idiot but contesting the rocket player and pushing out of your base means even if you do get rocketed hes down a rocket and further from your flag or whatever than he would've been had you let them pick where and when everything happens. It also helps prevents situations like both teams playing so slowly the rockets snowball into the next set of rockets or power ups. That also doesn't mean slow playing and letting the other team make a mistake is never the right play either but that is a little bit different than actually just sitting in the base or hiding

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2 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

I have no idea what you're even trying to say anymore 

 

Show me a single cod tourney where everyone voluntarily or involuntarily used the exact same weapon setup.

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34 minutes ago, Snipe Three said:

It can though. Nobody is suggesting just running out like an idiot but contesting the rocket player and pushing out of your base means even if you do get rocketed hes down a rocket and further from your flag or whatever than he would've been had you let them pick where and when everything happens. It also helps prevents situations like both teams playing so slowly the rockets snowball into the next set of rockets or power ups. That also doesn't mean slow playing and letting the other team make a mistake is never the right play either but that is a little bit different than actually just sitting in the base or hiding

I could run out like a smartbro and still be nuked. And yeah, he's down a rocket, but I'm down a life, for 8 seconds, and even if I do hurt him, that damage is negligible when 3 other players are around to presumably push. Literally getting myself killed there won't help at all. I'll just be pushed further back either way.

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