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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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4 minutes ago, Basu said:

Damn you really got me there with your amazing counter argument. 

 

Power weapons and powerups add incentives to move to less favorable positions, I don't see how this is so hard for you to understand. Why would I ever go to the OS cave on Beaver Creek if OS wasn't there? Or go to basement in Construct Hill. Or the plat where rockets spawn on Chilly/Hang em? 

There's more to maps that power positions and "LeTs AdD a FlAg" doesn't solve all those problems, it just stops people from completely turtling all game. Even in CTF power items add incentive to not bum rush the enemy flag and go out of your way to get them (crazy concept I know). 

Again, there are balancing issues with power items in recent games, but the mental gymnastics you guys go through to justify a complete removal of them is ridiculous. 

It's hilarious that you just can't believe some people don't want power weapons. And that you just belittle that opinion and get some weird superiority complex about it  

Bro. Flag games are slow paced bullshit with no power weapons. It's not even "bum rush the flag" like stop. The entire meta of the map all the situational plays are all STILL going to matter. The pace will be entirely determined by the map. But it's never NEVER going to be slow or a standstill. Because you NEED the objective to win. SAME WITH literally every single obj gametype. Funny, there's really only one mode that needs power weapons or it becomes a standstill.....

Stop saying the same line over and over when it's been wrong the whole time. Play any CTF map with no power weapons  for money and tell me how slow it is lmao 

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My contention isn’t that the gameplay itself is slow on certain map designs without power weapons. It’s that it would be too hard to score. I would guess that the average game would be far more likely to go to time instead of score limit, because it would cost so much health to get kills. You either wait for shields which leaves you less time to play the obj, or you get refragged and nothing happens.

Midship and Warlock work great because the geometry of the map allows the team in control to choke out the other team and leaves them nowhere to hide. Map control is the power weapon. But so many other map designs would play like ass without power weapons to flush players out or get quick kills.

Plus, it’s just boring.

 

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2 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

It's hilarious that you just can't believe some people don't want power weapons. And that you just belittle that opinion and get some weird superiority complex about it   

Bro. Flag games are slow paced bullshit with no power weapons. It's not even "bum rush the flag" like stop. The entire meta of the map all the situational plays are all STILL going to matter. The pace will be entirely determined by the map. But it's never NEVER going to be slow or a standstill. Because you NEED the objective to win. SAME WITH literally every single obj gametype. Funny, there's really only one mode that needs power weapons or it becomes a standstill.....

Stop saying the same line over and over when it's been wrong the whole time. Play any CTF map with no power weapons  for money and tell me how slow it is lmao 

Oh I believe that you want them gone, but I refuse to believe that it's going to make the game better, because you have yet to provide an argument as to why, aside from the obvious "I hate dying to rockets and snipers r gae". And you again fail to tell me how a map plays better when large parts of it can just be ignored and player movement becomes centralized around 1/2 objectives instead of multiple items coming up at different times which require decisions to be made on the fly. Can it work? Absolutely, as Truth/Heretic/Middy have shown. But I refuse to believe that the game will play better overall if this is applied to all maps. Basically you want a game that is 1) less skillful 2) more shallow and IMO 3) boring as hell. I have no issue if that's what you want, but I won't accept the statement that the game would be better like that.

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13 minutes ago, Basu said:

Oh I believe that you want them gone, but I refuse to believe that it's going to make the game better, because you have yet to provide an argument as to why, aside from the obvious "I hate dying to rockets and snipers r gae". And you again fail to tell me how a map plays better when large parts of it can just be ignored and player movement becomes centralized around 1/2 objectives instead of multiple items coming up at different times which require decisions to be made on the fly. Can it work? Absolutely, as Truth/Heretic/Middy have shown. But I refuse to believe that the game will play better overall if this is applied to all maps. Basically you want a game that is 1) less skillful 2) more shallow and IMO 3) boring as hell. I have no issue if that's what you want, but I won't accept the statement that the game would be better like that.

There you go again lmao sheesh. Can't take a different opinion gotta straight insult.  Less skillful? Lmao I've seen it all man. 

Kelly and I have made literally a hundred points about this shit but you continually ignored them. There's no point in listing it you refuse to listen. It's true games just can't function without free kill weapons. No game in existence works without them and every game is slow and voting when they don't exist. 

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28 minutes ago, Hard Way said:

My contention isn’t that the gameplay itself is slow on certain map designs without power weapons. It’s that it would be too hard to score. I would guess that the average game would be far more likely to go to time instead of score limit, because it would cost so much health to get kills. You either wait for shields which leaves you less time to play the obj, or you get refragged and nothing happens.

Midship and Warlock work great because the geometry of the map allows the team in control to choke out the other team and leaves them nowhere to hide. Map control is the power weapon. But so many other map designs would play like ass without power weapons to flush players out or get quick kills.

Plus, it’s just boring.

 

Even fights are boring? The most skillful aspect of halo has ALWAYS been your skill with your starting gun and movement. Always. Emphasizing this is boring? I think fighting against someone that has an almost insurmountable advantage is boring. I think using something that gives me an almost insurmountable advantage is boring. 

Obj plays perfectly fine without power weapons. Have you guys actually tried It? Ever? Or are you just speculating because a few MM maps have been small with no power weapons. 

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3 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Even fights are boring? The most skillful aspect of halo has ALWAYS been your skill with your starting gun and movement. Always. Emphasizing this is boring? I think fighting against someone that has an almost insurmountable advantage is boring. I think using something that gives me an almost insurmountable advantage is boring. 

Obj plays perfectly fine without power weapons. Have you guys actually tried It? Ever? Or are you just speculating because a few MM maps have been small with no power weapons. 

Elevation on the map provides a significant advantage too. If you lose contention for pink 3 and then respawn basement it must be frustrating to not be back on an even playing field afterwards 

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1 minute ago, II7 HUNTER II7 said:

Elevation on the map provides a significant advantage too. If you lose contention for pink 3 and then respawn basement it must be frustrating to not be back on an even playing field afterwards 

SAME weapons same tools at your disposal. The game is about out maneuvering and out shooting people that are equally as lethal as you. You earn map positioning and obj plays by beating your opponent with the EXACT SAME tools he has. And when you die you can spawn and you're right back to full power. 

Lol apply that same scenario but with power weapons. Now it's a crispy snowball scenario lmao. That's SOOOO much more fun 

Using power weapons is literally the most boring thing in halo. Right next to using vehicles. 

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I propose we play customs with all the weapons off except for grenades, and only do objective. CE, H2, H2A, H3, H4, H5, doesn't matter. Flag, Bomb, Hill, Strongholds, 1 Flag, 1 Bomb, whatevs. Would be an interesting experiment, and would give some insight in the concept of contesting items as a whole.

Kind of tired seeing people talk, and not play.

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7 minutes ago, S0UL FLAME said:

I propose we play customs with all the weapons off except for grenades, and only do objective. CE, H2, H2A, H3, H4, H5, doesn't matter. Flag, Bomb, Hill, Strongholds, 1 Flag, 1 Bomb, whatevs. Would be an interesting experiment, and would give some insight in the concept of contesting items as a whole.

Kind of tired seeing people talk, and not play.

Let's do it 

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6 minutes ago, My Namez BEAST said:

Let's do it 

I can set us up a lobby at 7 Eastern, five and a half hours from now. Plenty of time for whoever needs to wrap up whatever they're doing for Halo w/o Pickups. Everyone needs to walk the walk in this discussion, see what this series is like when you focus entirely on your own wit and skill

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I don't think we've made any progress from last time. Good luck setting up that lobby tonight but I imagine a lot of people wouldn't be on until later.

What maps do you guys plan to test? I'm sure I'll chime in again on this later as to why I think it is not the best solution or certainly not a blanket solution.

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6 minutes ago, Teapot said:

What maps do you guys plan to test?

Probably just doing the tournament viable maps from whatever selection of Halo games we play. Gamemode will have infinite ammo utility and frag starts, with grenades on the map (if that option is applicable). Switching between sym and asym modes, back and forth. No Slayer.

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I'm sure it won't be today lol. It was hard enough getting people to even play anything lmao so idek if there will ever even be a lobby. 

We don't really need to play CE either. 4v4 is poop on it anyway and I do t really care at all about how that game balanced their weapons at this point. I'm never gonna be into it enough to play it for any length of time so it's pointless. 

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2 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

You earn map positioning and obj plays by beating your opponent with the EXACT SAME tools he has. And when you die you can spawn and you're right back to full power

That is simply untrue. The enemy still has geometric advantages over you. It still isn't a fair fight. Why is gaining geometric advantages exempt from this frustration you have with unfair fights?

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2 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

SAME weapons same tools at your disposal. The game is about out maneuvering and out shooting people that are equally as lethal as you. You earn map positioning and obj plays by beating your opponent with the EXACT SAME tools he has. And when you die you can spawn and you're right back to full power. 

Lol apply that same scenario but with power weapons. Now it's a crispy snowball scenario lmao. That's SOOOO much more fun 

Using power weapons is literally the most boring thing in halo. Right next to using vehicles. 

Wizard is the only map in the entire halo series I can think of that doesn't have power weapons, so, wtf has been the point of the last 17 years of your life surrounding halo? If you saw me on a fortnite forum 17 years after its launch whining in my 6000th post that there shouldn't be building in the game, you'd have every right to ask me the same kind of question lol. Furthermore, that question could be stretched more broadly because I can't for the life of me think of an FPS that doesn't have weapon variation. You're a walking paradox dawg. Merry xmas though.

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3 hours ago, My Namez BEAST said:

There you go again lmao sheesh. Can't take a different opinion gotta straight insult.  Less skillful? Lmao I've seen it all man. 

Kelly and I have made literally a hundred points about this shit but you continually ignored them. There's no point in listing it you refuse to listen. It's true games just can't function without free kill weapons. No game in existence works without them and every game is slow and voting when they don't exist. 

How on earth is that an insult lmao. Yes I have read your posts and besides "power weapons are skillfree" and denying that it takes skill to acquire these items there's not really that much. Oh remove grenades and vehicles, but that has nothing to do with the power weapon discussion.

Yes it's less skillful because you remove and entire layer of strategy and decision making in order to put more emphasis on gun fights with the primary weapon, which historically hasn't been hard to use outside of CE and H3, games which you two shit on all the time. So yeah I'm "listening" but I can't make the link between "remove all items on map" and "Halo is now better".

Also I see you're hiding behind sarcasm and hyperbole again so it's pretty safe to say this discussion is just going nowhere.

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33 minutes ago, RVG E Nomini said:

Wizard is the only map in the entire halo series I can think of that doesn't have power weapons, so, wtf has been the point of the last 17 years of your life surrounding halo? If you saw me on a fortnite forum 17 years after its launch whining in my 6000th post that there shouldn't be building in the game, you'd have every right to ask me the same kind of question lol. Furthermore, that question could be stretched more broadly because I can't for the life of me think of an FPS that doesn't have weapon variation. You're a walking paradox dawg. Merry xmas though.

Elongation and Backwash have neither power weapons or abilities. Not that those are even worth mentioning as they aren't great maps. I guess Amplified and Onslaught if you count forge maps.

Can you imagine Halo 3 without Sniper or Rockets and how terrible that would be?

 

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Why stop at power weapons? Next, remove all grenades, have the BR be the only weapon, and no camo nor ov either. Then we can remove the ammo from the BRs so we have unlimited ammo. Melees? Nah fam.

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33 minutes ago, Nokt said:

 

Can you imagine Halo 3 without Sniper or Rockets and how terrible that would be?

 

Can you imagine how much better h3 would be with power items on 60-90 second timers?

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On 12/20/2018 at 11:12 AM, theslatcher said:

Love it when you play HCE solo and run into teams of 3 and 4. Marvelous.

Welcome to XBL

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4 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Can you imagine how much better h3 would be with power items on 60-90 second timers?

This idea is terrible, think about it. Rockets on 90 second timers would mean there were 40 rocket shots in a 15 minute game. That's 40 guaranteed kills per game from winning the first rocket launcher of spawn when considering the snow balling effect they have. After winning the first intereraction of the game you have essentially secured the win because you become an unkillable juggernaught when holding a power weapon.

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13 minutes ago, Aphex Twin said:

Can you imagine how much better h3 would be with power items on 60-90 second timers?

LOL now this is gold. Yea the game with a starting weapon that literally can't contest anything. Let's add MORE power weapon. Lolololoolololol

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1 hour ago, RVG E Nomini said:

Wizard is the only map in the entire halo series I can think of that doesn't have power weapons, so, wtf has been the point of the last 17 years of your life surrounding halo? If you saw me on a fortnite forum 17 years after its launch whining in my 6000th post that there shouldn't be building in the game, you'd have every right to ask me the same kind of question lol. Furthermore, that question could be stretched more broadly because I can't for the life of me think of an FPS that doesn't have weapon variation. You're a walking paradox dawg. Merry xmas though.

Lol you guys have been bitching about sprint for how long? Almost a decade? You guys have been worshiping CE and calling the other games trash for how long? 

Also I'm glad you can compare halo to other games about variety. As if that makes any difference. Competitive cod is usually 1 viable sub and 1 viable AR. Yet they're not rallying for tons of variety. People aren't trying to nerf the AK in cs so that people can use the other weapons. Lmao come on. But if you wanna go down that hole then I can't think of any other major FPS games that use power weapons. Cod doesn't. CS doesn't. Overwatch doesn't. So how is that relevant to anything at all?

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1 hour ago, Basu said:

How on earth is that an insult lmao. Yes I have read your posts and besides "power weapons are skillfree" and denying that it takes skill to acquire these items there's not really that much. Oh remove grenades and vehicles, but that has nothing to do with the power weapon discussion.

Yes it's less skillful because you remove and entire layer of strategy and decision making in order to put more emphasis on gun fights with the primary weapon, which historically hasn't been hard to use outside of CE and H3, games which you two shit on all the time. So yeah I'm "listening" but I can't make the link between "remove all items on map" and "Halo is now better".

Also I see you're hiding behind sarcasm and hyperbole again so it's pretty safe to say this discussion is just going nowhere.

 My dude you literally just keep talking as if your opinion is objective fact. As if power weapons making the game better is an objective fact. Which it's not. And then you try and throw the "my version has a better skillgap" which is also not a fact. It's all opinions. Focusing more on raw gunplay and positioning isn't lowering the skill gap. It's just making the game different. You gain and you lose shit. Like every other change in the game. 

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