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CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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The thing about an emulator is that it will likely have the same large deadzones as the original game and the difference in horizontal and vertical sensitivity. Also it will probably be played using system link which is will increase the difficulty in shooting due to offhost. It’s not really going to be a fair comparison.

 

I’m regards to the recent updates, the game has measurably improved. With bullet redirection finally gone leading shots actually works now. That is not a placebo.

 

Like I said, if it went from a D- to a D+ I'm not really interested. Mat fucking Logan is in here saying the game sucks. 

 

As for the rest of all that... okay? Have fun on MCC, more power to you. 

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h3 hit reg isn't client side. that's why bloodshots occur.

 

hitscan or projectile actually doesnt matter for hit reg. it's all netcode. it's just easier to aim on hitscan so ofc youre hitting your shots more

I just want to know how in a 1v1 both myself and the host see a bloodshot on me. Whatever the answer is to that is why MCC hit reg is kinda questionable atm for H3. The only reason it was even commented on was because I had camo and we both saw it and after he said something I realized that this didn't actually make sense on any planet

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So I played some H3 today.  Boy do I suck at that game, but it was the most fun I've had playing Halo in a long time.

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If they insist on having a quit ban, at least give me a fucking option to veto. There is zero reason to have a ban for quitting, especially for a single game.

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If they insist on having a quit ban, at least give me a fucking option to veto. There is zero reason to have a ban for quitting, especially for a single game.

literally csgo, lol, dota2, and ow will ban you on first quit.
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literally csgo, lol, dota2, and ow will ban you on first quit.

And I don’t care because I don’t play those games. When I have 2 afk teammates how the fuck do you expect me to stay in the match? And then punish me for leaving? But not have ANY penalty for the afk’ers? How can you seriously justify that?
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I said "hook your Xbox up to the component on your TV". 

 

You said "don't do that, component lags, check these links". 

 

 

Ah, I thought you were doubting the Elgato + monitor setup.

 

It is true that the article says nothing about Component inputs on TVs specifically. But I thought that was a well-known fact that they ofte lag, since the converters used in TVs are usually not of such high quality as those in e.g. an Elgato. And there is a difference between HDMI and Component - the latter is an analog signal and thus has to be converted before it is displayed on an LCD screen. I therefore wouldn't trust a random LCD TV if it hadn't been properly tested for input lag using component cables.

 

EDIT: This isn't the first time the two of us have been discussing this, apparently: http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/14496-halo-1-play-in-480p-lagless/page-2?do=findComment&comment=846373

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And I don’t care because I don’t play those games. When I have 2 afk teammates how the fuck do you expect me to stay in the match? And then punish me for leaving? But not have ANY penalty for the afk’ers? How can you seriously justify that?

They still have no afk remover/punishment? Lord, what are they doing over there?

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They still have no afk remover/punishment? Lord, what are they doing over there?

They have, they even implemented a system where while searching, if you don't move your sticks or press a button for a little while you'll get backed up because you're idle... Which is dumb.

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They have, they even implemented a system where while searching, if you don't move your sticks or press a button for a little while you'll get backed up because you're idle... Which is dumb.

Yet people still somehow bypass this and continue to AFK in matches.

 

I dunno how they bypass it but it's infuriating.

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Yet people still somehow bypass this and continue to AFK in matches.

 

I dunno how they bypass it but it's infuriating.

Probably using a naive approach to how they handle detecting AFKers. What surprises me is the amount of people who AFK, as what reason is there to doing so in MCC?

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It is true that the article says nothing about Component inputs on TVs specifically. But I thought that was a well-known fact that they ofte lag, since the converters used in TVs are usually not of such high quality as those in e.g. an Elgato.

If there's any information out there showing this to be the case, I'd be more than happy to ingest it.

 

And there is a difference between HDMI and Component - the latter is an analog signal and thus has to be converted before it is displayed on an LCD screen. I therefore wouldn't trust a random LCD TV if it hadn't been properly tested for input lag using component cables.

YCbCr and YPbPr are the exact same signal (both subsampled component video in the same color space), just that the former is digital and the latter is analog. They'd both have to get converted inside the TV to RGB to be displayed on screen, which is why I corrected myself above to note that modern consoles MIGHT not have to go through any conversion process since they output full-range RGB over HDMI instead of YCbCr. That's a big "might" though. 

 

EDIT: This isn't the first time the two of us have been discussing this, apparently: http://teambeyond.net/forum/topic/14496-halo-1-play-in-480p-lagless/page-2?do=findComment&comment=846373

Well butter my biscuits and call me someone who argues on the internet too much.

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They have, they even implemented a system where while searching, if you don't move your sticks or press a button for a little while you'll get backed up because you're idle... Which is dumb.

Yeah I know that they kick people who are actually just waiting in MM, I've also had the "can't start MM because someone in your lobby is afk" bullshit come up, but I still get afks all the time in MM. I think their anti afk methods only affect MM, not being afk in-game.

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They need to add an update that kicks afk players and they need to add a surrender option like R6 Siege so we can avoid quitting if it's a 2v4.

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NO. Hitscan is just the term used when the projectile speed is so fast it always takes less than 1 frame for the bullet to land. You only need to lead to compensate for any connection lag, not bullet travel time.  People "feel" that hit registration is better with hitscan, but really it's just that aiming is easier since you really only need to lead at extreme ranges and if your connection is good you don't need to lead ever. Hit registration is really about all the bullets that are aimed correctly counting like they should, regardless of how fast they get there.  Halo 3 has multiple problems that make it bad. To lead correctly with how slow the BR bullets are, you often need to lead so far that your reticle isn't even red.  When its not red, magnetism doesn't really help you out and its not that strong to begin with (which is fine, unless the spread is random). Add a splash of lag, pinch of random spread and dash of generally shitty aiming mechanics and it gets even worse, though technically none of that is actually a "registration" issue.  But  there are issues with genuine hit registration where bullets actually don't count.  There are examples of perfectly aimed shots at unmoving targets sometimes taking 4 shots and sometimes taking 5.  Plus there is the "bullet refunding" issue that, while largely mitigated at this point, still happens on occasion where some or all of the bullets from a burst end up back in your ammo reserve, meaning the server didn't even see that you shot them so clearly the damage didn't count.

 

Add all of that shit up and it ends up causing a lot of games that genuinely just end up feeling awful.

That's a bad way to put it as hitscan doesn't have projectiles(so they have no speed either). Hitscan is simply when you shoot, instead of a projectile spawning there's a test to see if anything intersects with the bullet path, if there is; put the bullet through it and apply the usual logic.

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NO. Hitscan is just the term used when the projectile speed is so fast it always takes less than 1 frame for the bullet to land. You only need to lead to compensate for any connection lag, not bullet travel time. People "feel" that hit registration is better with hitscan, but really it's just that aiming is easier since you really only need to lead at extreme ranges and if your connection is good you don't need to lead ever. Hit registration is really about all the bullets that are aimed correctly counting like they should, regardless of how fast they get there. Halo 3 has multiple problems that make it bad. To lead correctly with how slow the BR bullets are, you often need to lead so far that your reticle isn't even red. When its not red, magnetism doesn't really help you out and its not that strong to begin with (which is fine, unless the spread is random). Add a splash of lag, pinch of random spread and dash of generally shitty aiming mechanics and it gets even worse, though technically none of that is actually a "registration" issue. But there are issues with genuine hit registration where bullets actually don't count. There are examples of perfectly aimed shots at unmoving targets sometimes taking 4 shots and sometimes taking 5. Plus there is the "bullet refunding" issue that, while largely mitigated at this point, still happens on occasion where some or all of the bullets from a burst end up back in your ammo reserve, meaning the server didn't even see that you shot them so clearly the damage didn't count.

 

Add all of that shit up and it ends up causing a lot of games that genuinely just end up feeling awful.

H3 is just really not a fun game to play.

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If there's any information out there showing this to be the case, I'd be more than happy to ingest it.

 

Didn't find any hard tests just now, but RTINGS.com, who does detailed input lag tests of TVs, write the following on their input lag overview page:

 

 

You might find a bit more lag is present with analog connections, like component or composite cables. This is because the TV needs to convert the analog signal to digital before video can be displayed, and the conversion process takes time.

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I've always wondered, do you also benefit from more bullet magnetism with hitscan compared to projectile bullets when leading with the reticle ahead of the moving target? I always assumed bullet magnetism was increased when the reticle was red which isn't the case when leading shots at long distance.

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That's a bad way to put it as hitscan doesn't have projectiles(so they have no speed either). Hitscan is simply when you shoot, instead of a projectile spawning there's a test to see if anything intersects with the bullet path, if there is; put the bullet through it and apply the usual logic.

 

Yeah this is more accurate. If a gun is hitscan, the bullets essentially have infinite speed because they don't really exist. It's in the name: the game scans the path of your aim and applies a hit to the first object in the path.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitscan

 

Halo 3 has no hitscan weapons (though the laser is a sort of pseudo-hitscan). Even the sniper isn't hitscan, it just has extremely fast projectiles. Most of the time it approximates a hitscan weapon, but if you've ever been on Sandtrap trying to snipe a guy across the map you'll remember at huge distance you have to slightly lead shots with the sniper as well.

 

Hit registration technically has nothing to do with hitscan vs. projectile... but my guess is hitscan would tend to make it easier to achieve solid online hit registration since the calculation to determine hit detection is just simpler. But they aren't in-and-of-themselves related. Overwatch for example has tons of projectile (and hitscan) weapons and the registration is generally fantastic. H3 is just a relic of the days of p2p multiplayer and its hit detection was never great in the first place.

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I've always wondered, do you also benefit from more bullet magnetism with hitscan compared to projectile bullets when leading with the reticle ahead of the moving target? I always assumed bullet magnetism was increased when the reticle was red which isn't the case when leading shots at long distance.

entirely depends on how its coded.

 

Hitscan doesnt literally mean if red = hit. You can code it to only be dead center. If h3 was made hitscan, it doesnt increase the magnetism. You can also get magnetism without a red reticle on projectile and hitscan. Pick a spot on a wall that shows it can be shot. Stand outside of red reticle range for whatever weapond. Fire a full clip. See the spread pattern if applicable. Now put a spartan in your sightline, Aim in with a sniper from outside rrr of whatever weapon, make the center of the crosshair further left/right of the spartans model, maybe even a little further off him. Fire again and youll notice that if the spartan is to the left, there are no bullets that land far to the right like last time or ofc maybe every bullet hits him. Im not sure what weps will get magnetism or if it does, when it stops. Its all up to the designer. I know for sure the ce pistol has magnetism outside of rrr.

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Improve the matchmaking experience and people won’t quit. There was never a quit ban back in the day and people barely quit.

When people get banned for a single quit they play a different game. So props for that.

Uhhhh, what games did you play? Certainly not halo.

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Uhhhh, what games did you play? Certainly not halo.

People obviously quit, but not on the scale that they quit in MCC before the mixtape update. Back then I played wayyy more games without players quitting than I see today.

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Uhhhh, what games did you play? Certainly not halo.

Quitting didn't become rampant until Halo 4. I guess it's a combination of 343 attracting the "modern gamer" aka CoD kiddies that rage quit after their first death and 343 adding JIP, which believe it or not has a big psychological effect on quitting.

 

Back in H3 and even the shitfest known as Reach you rarely saw half the team being afk or quitting 30s into the match, in MCC it happens every other game. Iz was even less of an issue in ranked, you know back when ranks meant something.

 

I've played like 5 games of OG H2 XBL so i can't vouch for that, but I'm dead certain that quitting has been a progressively bigger issue starting from H3 onwards to H4/5/MCC. These new quit bans seem to actually work though, I'm noticing fewer quitters since that update (afk has only gotten worse though as 343 didn't actually adress it)

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