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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Because adding sprint to Halo completely changes how the game is played and designed. Random spread is a nuisance. Sprint is a gimmick that makes the game no longer Halo. (we figured this out eight years ago)

 

Apples and oranges.

Randomizing your gunfights at a fundamental level and making each fight a potential (KEY TERM) coin toss through the use of an inconsistent burst fire weapon is only a nuisance? And somehow sprint is the largest offender compared to it. Frankly, that's ridiculous. Because it's not apples and oranges. Both are gameplay mechanics that inherently affect your title. They affect it in different ways, but they're literally on the same branch in that messing with one will screw things up at a base level. 

 

How do you figure sprint changes how the game is played, but your gun being inconsistent doesn't, and somehow isn't more important? Just, how. The game's an FPS. It's a shooter. How is it a nuisance when that core part of your game isn't working properly? Out of actual morbid curiosity, if Halo: Reach came out tomorrow as it did in 2010, would you make the game NB first, or would you remove sprint first?

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Strongsiding is kinda gay but at the same time, your speed isn't increased at all, making running away far less common of a tactic in 2 and 3. It's also somewhat of a harder thing to do because you're staring at the ground. It's a simple idea, not a lot of people did it though.

 

Running away in particular isn't even the biggest problem with Sprint though. We all know this. It has an ironically consistent ability to make match pacing and flow entirely random. The defensive tactics are one thing, the structure of play being uprooted as the match is going on is another.

 

Spreads randomness can be mitigated the closer you get at the very least. Especially with the 10% damage increase. Its biggest problem is that it blocks the player from long range kills in a timely manner no matter what. Which slows the game down on its own (in halo 3 this is made worse by the 1.5 kill time).

 

The practical reality about it as a mechanic is that within a certain distance, the magnetism is strong enough and the spread is tight enough to where the spread is totally mitigated.

 

It's a bad mechanic but in the most comp environment the map isnt going to be big enough to where it's as huge problem the majority of the time, and the damage increase only helps in this area. Plus if it's LAN (which it ought to be), the dropped shots (which is inarguably the worst problem with the guns in h3 because unlike spread it's impossible to fix when it's happening), to my knowledge aren't an issue.

 

Wouldn't have put in the game personally, but it doesn't ruin it for me.

 

Btw @@TheIcePrincess Im not arguing your point. I'm just giving my thoughts on the mechanics themselves.

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Because adding sprint to Halo completely changes how the game is played and designed. Random spread is a nuisance. Sprint is a gimmick that makes the game no longer Halo. (we figured this out eight years ago)

 

Apples and oranges.

homie. Sprint is wack in a lot of ways but everyone has it. It's a game mechanic. Spread literally is random. Lol. I'm a competitive environment spread is WAYYYYYY worse than sprint. I'll take an accurate starting weapon and sprint over spread any day of the week.

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homie. Sprint is wack in a lot of ways but everyone has it. It's a game mechanic. Spread literally is random. Lol. I'm a competitive environment spread is WAYYYYYY worse than sprint. I'll take an accurate starting weapon and sprint over spread any day of the week.

Shit give me reach bloom over sprint any day.

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How do you guys even play games like CS, BF, Titanfall, OW or any of the 95% of FPS that have spread if spread makes you this upset? I'd be glad if it was removed, but honestly the bigger issues of the H3 BR are the awful hitreg, the slow burst and the overall way too long kill time. The H2 BR has no spread, but it's just as useless past mid range as the H3 BR even more so IMO.

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How do you guys even play games like CS, BF, Titanfall, OW or any of the 95% of FPS that have spread if spread makes you this upset? I'd be glad if it was removed, but honestly the bigger issues of the H3 BR are the awful hitreg, the slow burst and the overall way too long kill time. The H2 BR has no spread, but it's just as useless past mid range as the H3 BR even more so IMO.

Comparing H3 spread to CS is actually insane please stop.
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Tundra is the worst Halo 3 map I've ever played, please remove it from Composer thank you

i wish i was as lucky as you to have never played snowbound or epitaph. Tundra is mediocre, but its not terrible

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I dont want to get into this argument, but h4’s weapons do not shoot straight. The dmr has bloom which will make you miss/get body shots instead of head shots. The br has spread just like h3 but its hitscan, has bigger hitboxes, and has stronger magnetism. It still sucks past like 30m unscoped and still sucks in far RRR scoped. The light rifle has no spread but no one uses that even tho thc pushed for it.

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How do you guys even play games like CS, BF, Titanfall, OW or any of the 95% of FPS that have spread if spread makes you this upset? I'd be glad if it was removed, but honestly the bigger issues of the H3 BR are the awful hitreg, the slow burst and the overall way too long kill time. The H2 BR has no spread, but it's just as useless past mid range as the H3 BR even more so IMO.

i dont competitively. H2 br has fall off damage which is what makes it useless. Thats a way better mechanic than random spread.
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The halo 3 BR's kill time/bloodshot frequency/lack of range and sprint serve the same purpose - they both slow the game down.

 

I'd take a halo game where everyone spawns with the h1 pistol + sprint over a game where your shots have a chance of not registering (even on LAN - never forget that H3 bloodshots happened on LAN and puckett would call it out during MLG tournament streams. I'm old enough to remember this.)

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How do you guys even play games like CS, BF, Titanfall, OW or any of the 95% of FPS that have spread if spread makes you this upset? I'd be glad if it was removed, but honestly the bigger issues of the H3 BR are the awful hitreg, the slow burst and the overall way too long kill time. The H2 BR has no spread, but it's just as useless past mid range as the H3 BR even more so IMO.

You can 4shot people across map in h2 if your weapon is lined up. In halo 3 you literally get a 5sk 50% of the time if you are 10-15 meters away. It might not literally be 10-15 meters (I didn’t know how to measure it when i tested it forever ago), but well before the point most people would consider mid range. Further than that, you start getting significant chances of getting 6 shot kills with everything lined up perfectly.

 

Also, those games you mentioned either have quick kill times, or are just garbage (I’m looking at you, Overwatch). This whole “which is worse, sprint or spread” debate is very stupid. It’s like arguing which is worse between two fatal diseases.

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i wish i was as lucky as you to have never played snowbound or epitaph. Tundra is mediocre, but its not terrible

 

I can deal with bad layouts, I can't deal with horrible movement. It's so obnoxious trying to navigate all the stupid structures in the middle, let alone trying to do so while finishing a one-shot guy. At least I can walk around Epitaph without pulling my hair out.

 

I also really hate the bases. There's a poorly forged lip at the top that you can fly off of accidentally if you're not careful which is annoying. But worse is the ramps leading up to the bases are actually too steep to apply good nade pressure (most of the time they'll bounce too high off the ramp to hit a player that's just on the other side) and the bases are the best high ground on the map, so once you have the sniper your best bet is just retreat into your own base and take free shots at the other team. The map would be infinitely better if the bases were low and the middle ground was higher.

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It’s like arguing which is worse between two fatal diseases.

You're correct, but not enough people here recognize the H3 BR as the "fatal disease" that it is.

 

The gameplay detriment brought on by a random utility weapon with a long kill time is comparable to the gameplay detriment brought on by sprint in a halo game where players have shields.

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You can 4shot people across map in h2 if your weapon is lined up. In halo 3 you literally get a 5sk 50% of the time if you are 10-15 meters away. It might not literally be 10-15 meters (I didn’t know how to measure it when i tested it forever ago), but well before the point most people would consider mid range. Further than that, you start getting significant chances of getting 6 shot kills with everything lined up perfectly.

 

Also, those games you mentioned either have quick kill times, or are just garbage (I’m looking at you, Overwatch). This whole “which is worse, sprint or spread” debate is very stupid. It’s like arguing which is worse between two fatal diseases.

you talking stock settings or mlg?

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I think it’s an interesting discussion. I think it’d be helpful to condense it into a simple binary choice. Would you rather play Reach v7 with no sprint and the H3 BR, or Reach v7 with sprint, and the No Bloom DMR. Personally I’d take the H3 BR version. The random spread can be mitigated by proper reticle placement for the vast majority of your engagements. Sprint changes every single aspect of the game.

 

I understand that random spread is a fundamental flaw in an arena FPS, but its severity (particularly in MLG settings) is overstated. It’s hard to overstate the effect sprint has, as its equally annoying regardless of the scenario, and it’s a factor in EVERY scenario.

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Spread is certainly pernicious in it's own right.

The idea that your chances of missing the further away from the target you is not only an inherently random element but one that exists for everyone since everyone has the same gun.

 

So the idea that Sprint has a constant effect on the game isn't so disimilar from spreads effect. The distinction between them is simply the degree to which this effect exists.

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That's a much more interesting way to phrase the subject.

 

The random spread isnt the only issue with the H3 BR - the inability to challenge at a distance and inherent bloodshot frequency (my biggest gripe with the gun) water the gameplay down further.

 

I hate not even having the possibility to hit a target with my utility weapon from snipe to snipe on the pit, or from red to blue window on midship. This aspect really limits the types of engagements & viable strategies that can occur.

 

I REALLY hate watching my bullets hit a target, blood spraying from my target, and they take no damage. LAN does not solve this, Bungie designed the H3 BR to randomly not register.

 

I'd take the ZB DMR because gunfights aren't so restricted to short ranges, allowing more viable strategies to develop.

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you talking stock settings or mlg?

Stock. I know mlg settings are 110% and I didn’t think to test that when I did a few years ago, but that raises its own issues. If I’m doing the math correctly, 110% damage output means the 11th bullet should kill rather than the 12th. This makes it more consistent, as 1 bullet can be missed due to spread now, but that will just push the effective rage out by some factor. The issue still remains that past the “consistent” range, the outcome between two equally skilled players will literally be a coin toss.

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That's a much more interesting way to phrase the subject.

 

The random spread isnt the only issue with the H3 BR - the inability to challenge at a distance and inherent bloodshot frequency (my biggest gripe with the gun) water the gameplay down further.

 

I hate not even having the possibility to hit a target with my utility weapon from snipe to snipe on the pit, or from red to blue window on midship. This aspect really limits the types of engagements & viable strategies that can occur.

 

I REALLY hate watching my bullets hit a target, blood spraying from my target, and they take no damage. LAN does not solve this, Bungie designed the H3 BR to randomly not register.

 

I'd take the ZB DMR because gunfights aren't so restricted to short ranges, allowing more viable strategies to develop.

Exactly. Even if spread supposedly isn't a big issue at medium range (it is) the lack of overall ability to shoot at long range really kills the game. Not being effective at range makes games feels so wack.

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Stock. I know mlg settings are 110% and I didn’t think to test that when I did a few years ago, but that raises its own issues. If I’m doing the math correctly, 110% damage output means the 11th bullet should kill rather than the 12th. This makes it more consistent, as 1 bullet can be missed due to spread now, but that will just push the effective rage out by some factor. The issue still remains that past the “consistent” range, the outcome between two equally skilled players will literally be a coin toss.

which is a problem that tends to scale based on which map you're on.

 

The ultimate problem is that long range fights just aren't viable.

 

Edit: I would like to point out that knowing you can't fight at long range is something you can plan for. There's not much about Sprint that allows for planning around it.

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Just some quick facts:

 

Ice Princess sucks at Halo 3

Halo 4/5 are the worst Halo games by far and 2 of the worst, gimmicky, broken mechanically games in video game history.

The Halo 3 BR is the greatest BR in history.

H2A is garbage.

Halo 3 is the most popular Halo game, by far, and will go down as one of the greatest video games in history, at least top 10.

 

Stop crying and lead your shots. It's you that sucks, not the game and not the BR. 

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