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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I usually find matches in hce pretty easily. The hardcore playlists I'll try for like 3-5 minutes and then give up and try h3 arena or ce dubs.

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Didn't the push an insider build out with the match composer thing today?

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Didn't the push an insider build out with the match composer thing today?

I think the installation for it came out yesterday, but today was the first "official playdate" of it.

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Ive played about 40 games with the new update. Majority have finished without quitting in h1 so the changes def worked. There has been better players as well compared to the first two weeks of newbs. For me its as good as we will ever get with halo pc on xbl.

 

They just need to keep playing around with the sniper and pistol making them harder to use. Also actually make the plasma gun freeze. Whoever here talks with 343 on discord, have they ever talked about the sniper hitboxes or plasma gun not freezing?

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They just need to keep playing around with the sniper and pistol making them harder to use. Also actually make the plasma gun freeze. Whoever here talks with 343 on discord, have they ever talked about the sniper hitboxes or plasma gun not freezing?

Priority list:Highest priority:

1. Networking consistency in general, but specifically "good connection disadvantage".

2. Pistol and sniper are too easy to use. sniper feels like the hitbox on the spartan your hitting is too big. pistol feels like it's hitscan from medium/long distances.

3. Plasma rifle and plasma pistol stun is ineffective. This is because they don't register well online. Make them faster, increase stun time/damage, idk do something.

4. Rockets aren't as effective online. This is most likely because client side and server side locations are not matching. Client side might be sending "that rocket barely grazed me" to the server when the rocket on server side is hitting him.

 

Second highest priority:

1. Toggle options for "NHE" settings (no weapon ready sounds, no weapon switch sounds, no footsteps, no spread on pistol or sniper scoped/unscoped). NHE should be used in the 2v2 playlist but a different option can be used for 4v4 MM (such as client side sounds)

2. Timer should be on the bottom right of the screen. 1 timer per every player on console. There should be an optional voice pack using Cortana's voice for a countdown. We can provide examples.

3. Old camoed player doesn't acquire new camo properly

4. Nametag placement especially in split screen. Toggle option for og blue names.

5. Rocket aim assist should be off

6. Portal flying

7. Classic OG sounds

8. OS is not on the right location for pris. you should be able to walk behind it.

 

3rd highest priority:

1. Map fixes to match OG. Battle Creek tree, the top part of blue base, and windows; Hang Em High trench lip; Derelict holes in floors and walls.

2. Training mode toggle showing spawn points, where to stand for randoms, and nav points for powerups and rockets. This has already been made for the OG version

3. Needler uses PC version, not OG

 

In our wildest dreams:

1. let us transfer Halo PC maps to MCC via USB drive

2. Port a map pack of the popular maps aka Downrush, hugeass, etc.

 

 

Tho some things are easier to do than others so highest priority might come first. But yeah weve raised that the snipers hitbox is fucking huge and the pistol feels hitscan at times

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Good to know thanks. Those would be mine as well. Its nice to play some quick games without quitters.

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Does anyone know the website tracking the issues in MCC? I know it's like a dedicated site or article or something keeping track of what's fixed and what isn't.

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Does anyone know the website tracking the issues in MCC? I know it's like a dedicated site or article or something keeping track of what's fixed and what isn't.

If you mean the Trello board that details 343's features and bugs they're currently working on: https://trello.com/b/WPZDzEBI/mcc-support-page

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Just played with the options, no games played, but I noticed that its pretty shallow in terms of customization. Aka you can't specify things like no radar gametypes and it seems to be restricted to a few preset modes like SWAT or CTF or Slayer. Granted having every option up wouldn't be ideal but being able to say I want Hardcore gametypes should be an option.

 

 

after playing some

 

5 accel seems insane on CE

I've unfortunately already shot a rocket directly through someone on CE

and its kind of interesting how I haven't played anything but CE so far

came away not knowing what the default sensitivity/acceleration of each title was supposed to be so it feels "wrong" but idk how to fix it without getting really into horizontal/vertical sensitivities and really just putting in way more effort than I want to

 

after playing even more

 

Halo 2 has weird framerate issues

Halo 3 literally locked sub 20 FPS on the pit when I got into a game for it

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Just played with the options, no games played, but I noticed that its pretty shallow in terms of customization. Aka you can't specify things like no radar gametypes and it seems to be restricted to a few preset modes like SWAT or CTF or Slayer. Granted having every option up wouldn't be ideal but being able to say I want Hardcore gametypes should be an option.

 

 

after playing some

 

5 accel seems insane on CE

I've unfortunately already shot a rocket directly through someone on CE

and its kind of interesting how I haven't played anything but CE so far

came away not knowing what the default sensitivity/acceleration of each title was supposed to be so it feels "wrong" but idk how to fix it without getting really into horizontal/vertical sensitivities and really just putting in way more effort than I want to

 

after playing even more

 

Halo 2 has weird framerate issues

Halo 3 literally locked sub 20 FPS on the pit when I got into a game for it

we want every1 into the ranked playlist was we can get lol. there won't be a way to customize hardcore settings. if u want hardcore, ur gunna have to search the ranked playlists. 

 

2 look accel and 10 deadzone seems to be default for me. at least for CE. 

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we want every1 into the ranked playlist was we can get lol. there won't be a way to customize hardcore settings. if u want hardcore, ur gunna have to search the ranked playlists. 

 

2 look accel and 10 deadzone seems to be default for me. at least for CE. 

I sort of agree about the ranked playlist thing but somewhere in my head I just don't really think there are enough people willing to play anymore for a healthy ranking system in something like the H2 Hardcore playlist. I want people to play it but they just don't. I haven't actually gotten one game any of the times I've searched it since the update dropped on retail MCC. That's a big reason why I wanted to combine it with the other team arena H2 playlist and have veto or w/e

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I sort of agree about the ranked playlist thing but somewhere in my head I just don't really think there are enough people willing to play anymore for a healthy ranking system in something like the H2 Hardcore playlist. I want people to play it but they just don't. I haven't actually gotten one game any of the times I've searched it since the update dropped on retail MCC. That's a big reason why I wanted to combine it with the other team arena H2 playlist and have veto or w/e

 

The competitive H2 kids all left that playlist because the game isn't H2.  We searched it for like a day and gave up.  It's literally the worst version of the game to exist right now.  Too many better options out there for sweaty H2 kids to even bother searching that playlist on MCC.  Why play an inferior version of a game that the developer swears up and down is perfect?

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The list Riddler posted is the second last draft we developed for Halo CE issues in MCC. This is the exact priority list I passed on to Postums and he confirmed that he passed it on to the development team. This was about one month ago. Kornman has been in constant communication with us about these issues as well:

 

 

CE priority list after deliberation from community

 

Highest priority:

1. Networking consistency in general, but specifically "good connection disadvantage".

2. Pistol and sniper are too easy to use. It feels almost like you can "swipe snipe" like you could in Halo 2 but just not as obvious.

3. Plasma rifle and plasma pistol stun is ineffective. This is mostly because they don't register well online. LAN is a lot better but still feels less effective than OG.

4. Rockets aren't as effective online. And Rocket pushes with no damage are too common.

 

2nd highest priority:

1. Timer which should be on the bottom right of the screen. 1 timer per every player on console.

2. Old camoed player doesn't always acquire new camo properly and you become uncamoed.

3. Nametag placement especially in split screen. Toggle option for og blue names.

4. Rocket aim assist should be off

5. After you go through a two way portal, you barely have to move forward before you're allowed to move back through the portal to where you came from. On OG you had to walk out several steps before you were allowed back through. Play OG for reference.

6. Portal "flying " (you can see portaling player flying between portal locations).

7. Gametype Toggles for: no spread on pistol or sniper rifle; weapon cocking and footstep sounds CLIENT SIDE ONLY

8. Classic OG sounds

 

3rd highest priority:

1. Map fixes to match OG. Battle Creek tree, the top part of blue base, both base windows; Hang Em High trench lip; Derelict holes in floors and walls. OS in prisoner is in incorrect position.

2. Training mode toggle showing spawn points, where to stand for randoms, and nav points for powerups and rockets.

3. Needler uses PC version, not OG. Needler has better tracking and damage on PC version.

 

In our wildest dreams:

1. let us transfer Halo PC maps to MCC

2. Port a map pack of the popular maps aka Downrush, hugeass, etc

3. dedis+lockstep netcode toggle for customs

 

 

 

 

If there's anything important we missed on our list of issues please post or DM me ASAP and I will modify it.

 

In addition to the "easy shooting" feedback in this list, I also sent a followup identifying possible causes of the easy shooting:

 

1. Lag compensation seems to be very forgiving offhost (especially on really bad connections) compared to OG Xbox Halo.

2. 60 fps allows smoother aiming

3. OG Xbox has 8 frames of input lag if going by 60fps. MCC apparently only has 5 frames (according to https://displaylag.com/console-latency-exploring-video-game-input-lag/).So "predictive" shooting (leading) is much easier.

4. We theorize the Xbox One Controller in general is better tuned. Sticks are easier to handle and are snappier. Not sure if there's any Xbox controller engineers you can talk to in order to confirm this.

 

 

 

Thing is, with the bottom three points, there's not much we can do about those things, unless we as a community decide we want to fundamentally change other aspects of the game to bring "average ttk" back up to where OG is, mainly bullet or reticle magnetism. I'm not sure if 343 is even willing to change such values, although they've done it in the June 2015 update which removed bullet magnetism (to much debate).

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Putting up artificial barriers to make the aiming harder would definitely be a bad idea, which sound like what would be required.  If the aiming is a little easier because the tech and framerate is a little better, it is what it is imo.  Halo 5's aiming is artificially difficult because of whatever weird shit they did to it, and we know how that feels to play.

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After H5's awful aiming system, I would think that aiming with 60FPS on a newer system and a snappier controller would be a good thing. While I understand the desire for it to be as close to OG as possible, I can't help but be a bit appalled that people would actually want so-called sloggier aiming.

 

I wouldn't mind a smaller reticule sometimes though.

 

Edit: doesn't removing spread from the Pistol and Snipe reduce the average TTK at long-range such as on Hang 'em? And that is seen as a good thing? (I know it is to remove RNG in the first place).

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While there is no doubt that framerate and controller tech make actual reticle placement easier, I don't believe that that has anything to do with the practical differences in "shooting" between the 2 games. Moreover, anything that improves a player's control over the game mechanics should be encouraged and embraced. We should be playing on 300fps if it was possible. 

 

The issue is that the reticle placement required for a kill in 2 identical scenarios is different depending on which game you're playing.

 

So often in OG, a centered red reticle is a miss because that's NOT where you're supposed to be aiming based on the in-game factors (your strafe, enemy strafe, distance between you). Sometimes the shot that hits is so far off the opponent that the reticle is still blue.

 

On MCC, the time spent as well as amount you should be leading off of your opponent is far, far less. The game is simply different; closer to 'hit-scan'. That has everything to do with the fact that Halo PC (with a lag compensation mod layered on as well) is a different game, with different mechanics designed in an attempt to facilitate online play. 

 

It would be interesting if someone made a side-by-side video of OG and MCC, with practical examples of necessary reticle placement for a kill. Increasing distances in halo meters measured with the oddball, strafing the same direction as well as opposite directions. I would guess that MCC would be far more forgiving on placement (perhaps depending on your ping), and actual placement would be much closer to centered on the enemy.

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While there is no doubt that framerate and controller tech make actual reticle placement easier, I don't believe that that has anything to do with the practical differences in "shooting" between the 2 games. Moreover, anything that improves a player's control over the game mechanics should be encouraged and embraced. We should be playing on 300fps if it was possible.

 

The issue is that the reticle placement required for a kill in 2 identical scenarios is different depending on which game you're playing.

 

So often in OG, a centered red reticle is a miss because that's NOT where you're supposed to be aiming based on the in-game factors (your strafe, enemy strafe, distance between you). Sometimes the shot that hits is so far off the opponent that the reticle is still blue.

 

On MCC, the time spent as well as amount you should be leading off of your opponent is far, far less. The game is simply different; closer to 'hit-scan'. That has everything to do with the fact that Halo PC (with a lag compensation mod layered on as well) is a different game, with different mechanics designed in an attempt to facilitate online play.

 

It would be interesting if someone made a side-by-side video of OG and MCC, with practical examples of necessary reticle placement for a kill. Increasing distances in halo meters measured with the oddball, strafing the same direction as well as opposite directions. I would guess that MCC would be far more forgiving on placement (perhaps depending on your ping), and actual placement would be much closer to centered on the enemy.

EDIT: Think I misunderstood how the input lag difference affects the game. It shouldn't affect lead. However MCC syncs the camera and gun perfectly, OG Halo does not (which causes 180 glitch). So perhaps you have to lead more if you're swinging your reticle fast on OG, on MCC your gun points where your reticle is so you lead less.

 

I 1000% agree about embracing these technical improvements though but we have to recognize it changes the way the game is played at the same time. People bitch that mcc is too easy and I think they still would even if the lag compensation factor was proven to be eliminated.

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You know, as backwards as this might sound, I wonder what the connection quality is of those who say shooting is too easy. I don't mean to name-call per say, what I mean actually has to do with the 'good connection disadvantage'.

 

I have a 100mb connection(good), and it consistently feels like I have to lead shots by quite a bit even at close range. Way more than I ever remember needing to on H3. Like say, from across one side of Rocket Room on Chill Out, I find myself needing to almost take the reticule off of someone completely in order to hit them. And across Hang 'em, a good Spartan width or two father off is necessary for both the Pistol and even the Sniper, to a slightly lesser extent.

 

And that is pretty consistent enough to the point that I feel like my shots are actually getting better. When I had a less than 6mb connection, let me tell you that the Pistol did in fact feel pretty much hitscan, and easy to use.

 

But that difficulty of shooting on a good connection, is that in itself still way too easy, or would fixing the compensation for worse connections resolve that and make the shooting difficulty 'fine' enough? I'm not too familiar with high-level LAN shooting on OG, and even though I still have the OG copy but now with a 360 instead of the OG Xbox, I don't have a good way to test.

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Maybe I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but the difference of 3 frames of input lag seems fairly substantial. It's like reducing lead in XBC/XLAN by 50ms ping (3 frames at 60fps = 50ms). So I think this is a primary factor in why mcc feels hitscan. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

I 1000% agree about embracing these technical improvements though but we have to recognize it changes the way the game is played at the same time. People bitch that mcc is too easy and I think they still would even if the lag compensation factor was proven to be eliminated.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that it very well may be easier/more responsive to PLACE your reticle, but that's it's the WHERE you should place it that differs between the 2 games, and is the more important factor when considering the different game feels. 

 

Now admittedly I have played maybe 1% of the MCC that most in here have, and a majority of that came during launch. But in my experience, anything in the chillout/prisoner range of battles required zero lead, and it shouldn't be like that. Maybe it is different now and my post doesn't apply anymore?

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Could be, @@Bonesaw. The last couple of patches has done something to introduce leading, it seems, but no-one has convincingly documented exactly what and how much lead compared to OG.

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You know, as backwards as this might sound, I wonder what the connection quality is of those who say shooting is too easy. I don't mean to name-call per say, what I mean actually has to do with the 'good connection disadvantage'.

 

I have a 100mb connection(good), and it consistently feels like I have to lead shots by quite a bit even at close range. Way more than I ever remember needing to on H3. Like say, from across one side of Rocket Room on Chill Out, I find myself needing to almost take the reticule off of someone completely in order to hit them. And across Hang 'em, a good Spartan width or two father off is necessary for both the Pistol and even the Sniper, to a slightly lesser extent.

 

And that is pretty consistent enough to the point that I feel like my shots are actually getting better. When I had a less than 6mb connection, let me tell you that the Pistol did in fact feel pretty much hitscan, and easy to use.

 

But that difficulty of shooting on a good connection, is that in itself still way too easy, or would fixing the compensation for worse connections resolve that and make the shooting difficulty 'fine' enough? I'm not too familiar with high-level LAN shooting on OG, and even though I still have the OG copy but now with a 360 instead of the OG Xbox, I don't have a good way to test.

 

I don't feel like I have to lead more with a good connection. Just feels like bullet magnetism is gone.

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