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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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It would suck if they removed HCE doubles.

 

Also, Lone Wolves is trash with 8 players and only half the games, anyway. If it had all games at 6 players, then I would play it.

 

There really is some serious playlist spam though.

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Current playlists with the lowest population.

 

 

LMFAO.

 

Let's remove Halo CE 2v2 but keep:

  1. Halo 3 BTB
  2. Halo 3 Arena
  3. Halo 3 Team Doubles
  4. Halo 3 Hardcore

FFS, at this point can we just call MCC: Halo 3 Anniversary?

 

How fucking incompetent can you get?!?

 

The match making system needs to be completely revamped and built from scratch. We waited 4 years for this?!

 

No region filter options, no way to queue for multiple playlists... Shit that is SORELY NEEDED in a collection of 5 different games and for some reason they've designed match making as if it's only one game (at this point it might as well be)

 

Of course no one is playing Halo 2 Hardcore when you have Halo 2 Arena AND Hardcore both ranked and the only option to play H2 casually with decent settings is hoping to get it in casual playlists mixed with H4 and other games.

 

EDIT - Also, these playlists would be more active if people outside NA could actually find games in them... Just saying.

 

I streamed tonight for a few hours and the only playlist that worked for me was social. GG.

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It really does suck that the different games(yes, even H4) don't get anything halfway resembling equal love. The way they currently have it, someone will always be left out. The amount of redundant playlists is also appalling.

 

EDIT: if anything it shows just how incompatible the entire Halo community is these days, even Classic Halo fans. I'm sure 343I has a bit of a headache with this particular point.

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I streamed tonight for a few hours and the only playlist that worked for me was social. GG.

I have the same problem as you, last couple times I tried searching I only got games in social slayer. I've stopped playing MCC because of it.

 

If population is that strong in the H3 playlists, I don't necessarily think it's bad to keep them. But it does bother me that if H2 hardcore and H1 doubles is removed, it'll probably be replaced with more H3 focused playlists. You mentioned it in your post, but this game really feels like it's slowly turning into Halo 3 anniversary. Most people who quit in my experience, quit when it's not H3. H3 has most playlists where fans of the game can play as much as they like. Social slayer absorbs fans from other games, which then have to play H3 anyway.

 

It's really unfortunate.

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You know if they would at least tried on H3 FFA maybe it would’ve been higher but instead we get the garbage ass 99% AR start gametypes and postums straight up refuses to change absolutely anything in that playlist for god knows what reason.

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You know what? Fuck this guy. 

Yeah, fuck the community manager that has nothing to do with how the game's actually managed, and is basically the one bridge of feedback we have for any potential criticism to get through, even if it's not heeded. Because that'll go somewhere. Somehow. 

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You know what sucks? I was really stoked for them to finally add a 4v4 CE playlist but now that they have I’m starting to realize that it’s sucking up all the casual players and that the only reason there were so many players in CE dubs to begin with is because it was the only option for CE. If they get rid of 2v2 but keep CE 4v4 I’ll feel like a dug my own grave asking for a 4v4 playlist.

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I was under the assumption Halo 1/2 were doing poorly because they haven't really been fixed yet

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Put H2 and H3 together in Hardcore. Halo 3 kids will complain but they can just get used to playing the more competitive game. Same with BTB. Halo 3 has no business having a whole BTB playlist all to itself. There is no more voting so getting stuck playing H3 all the time isn't an issue. 

 

And having the FFA playlist be ONLY Halo 3 makes zero sense.Put everything else in there that isn't Halo 4.

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We. Don't. Need. Arena. and. Hardcore. Playlists. For. Fucks. Sake

 

14 fucking playlists with a population that hovers around 20k max worldwide. Around 1500 Players in each playlists if every playlist was as popular as each other, which isn't the case, so some of the less popular playlists probably only see 100-200 people max. 

 

THERE ARE TOO MANY REDUNDANT PLAYLISTS. WE DON'T NEED HALO 3 BTB, WE CANT FUCKING VOTE ANYMORE ANYWAY, SO THE BTB ALWAYS BEING HALO 3 ISN'T GOING TO BE A DAMN PROBLEM ANYWAY.

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H3 kids will quit. We all know this. Mixtape MM is the only solution. Progression systems and quit penalties might help people stick around in a gametype they agreed to play, but nothing is going to force people to play something they don’t want to play.

 

I wish the H3 kids that quit out of anything that isn’t H3 would just.......play Halo 3....

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What a fucking joke. It's like they actually think most Halo 1 players are going to just start playing other Halos (we wont).

 

Imagine making a port of a PC port thats so bad, 90% of lan players refuse to play it. Then imagine removing the playlist for low population instead of just fixing the issues causing low population.

 

Does 343 know that customs for H1 are unplayable competitively because host has no magnetism and actual bullet lead while other players are damn near on hitscan? Removing H1 doubles would kill the only way to play Halo 1 on xbox right now.

 

They can't even manage to remove players getting host on dedicated servers. You know when your shots hit one game then don't register the next? It's because you're off host one game then next game you get host although its on a dedicated server. Your xbox obviously isn't the actual host box but you retain the code meant to nerf the host box. Only 1 player in a matchmaking game has zoom sounds (exactly like a custom game host) and that player has damn near no magnetism or aim assist. If they just removed players getting host disadvantage even though they aren't host, the game would be 100x better and more consistent. But they won't even acknowledge it and are going to remove the playlist because its so fucked no one plays it.

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Yeah, fuck the community manager that has nothing to do with how the game's actually managed.

 

He's 1) not the community manager and 2) made the final decision which playlists would make it in. He also made some glorious posts on twitter defending AR and SMG starts with zero logic besides "some people like it lolol, stop sweating so much".

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He's 1) not the community manager and 2) made the final decision which playlists would make it in. He also made some glorious posts on twitter defending AR and SMG starts with zero logic besides "some people like it lolol, stop sweating so much".

Community support*. Even more so nails in the point on how this man is still one of those few avenues where critiquing voices can be properly thrown both ways, and not a part of actually making proper decisions on managing the game's playlists, which is an issue here. And even if he's made posts defending ARs/SMGs without logic, saying "fuck this guy" still isn't gonna do shit all, but make you someone to be ignored and then generalized. It helps no one. Keep making good arguments for X mechanic set, playlist variety, the like. But the moment you make an attack on someone and respond out of emotion over logic, you're invalidating yourself and shoving your criticism from the category of "may be looked at" to "never will be taken seriously". 

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H3 kids will quit. We all know this. Mixtape MM is the only solution. Progression systems and quit penalties might help people stick around in a gametype they agreed to play, but nothing is going to force people to play something they don’t want to play.

 

I wish the H3 kids that quit out of anything that isn’t H3 would just.......play Halo 3....

and deal with 30fps, modders and Ddosers. Lol good one hard way. Love you
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H3 lone wolves sucks because of serveral reasons.

1. AR starts: every obj mode is AR starts and it’s pissing off most of us since because the mode is not only social, this makes people not go for the ball or hill and just stat whore.

2. It’s 8 players: h3 ffa is horrible with 8 especially on heretic.

3. It’s callrd lone wolves which was the ranked ffa mode in h3, and it has the rumble pit settings which is why they should of called it that!

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H3 lone wolves sucks because of serveral reasons.

1. AR starts: every obj mode is AR starts and it’s pissing off most of us since because the mode is not only social, this makes people not go for the ball or hill and just stat whore.

2. It’s 8 players: h3 ffa is horrible with 8 especially on heretic.

3. It’s callrd lone wolves which was the ranked ffa mode in h3, and it has the rumble pit settings which is why they should of called it that!

I thoroughly agree. Extremely disappointed in the playlist to the point that I haven't even bothered 'trying' it.

 

FFA was once my #1 reason to get online for some solo Halo sessions. It has been ruined since the H4 Turbo Update (when they made it 8 players after a pre-established 6 player launch).

 

EDIT: As casual as the game is, at least Bungie listened and made their D2 FFA 6 players like in D1.

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The playlist management actually kind of upsets me with MCC. There are a couple of ways to go about it assuming they just refuse/can't execute the best idea (custom playlists that match you with other players who are searching with a preference that matches one of your own) and that is to either do multigame playlists or intelligently curate what is in each playlist based on the goals of that particular playlist. The second option is what I'm going to really get into here.
 
The first thing I'm going to do is just list off what they actually added into the game.
 
Social
 
- HCE Team Arena
- H4 Team Arena
- H3 Lone Wolves
- H2C Team SWAT
- Team Action Sack
- Social Slayer
- H3 Big Team Battle
- Big Team Battle
 
Ranked
 
- HCE Team Doubles
- H2C Team Hardcore
- H3 Team Hardcore
- H3 Team Doubles
- H2C Team Arena
- H2A Team Arena
- H3 Team Arena
 
The goal (and I'm assuming here) of a social playlist is a relaxed environment to kick back and just play the game. That's fine. They did a mostly decent job of supplying one playlist to each game and a multigame playlist for people that just want to play (H2A?). H3 BTB and H3 lone wolves existing on their own is just weird. I guess maybe they were trying to get the H3 players out of the BTB playlists so that people could play other games. Okay whatever. Lone wolves though when there just isn't another FFA playlist for anything else? Interesting choice. Looks like playlist bloat to me. Not sure what was going on there. 
 
The goal of a ranked playlist (once again assuming) is to provide a competitive outlet for players interested in competition in whatever game or playlist it is. This is where things get really weird. The first obvious thing is that you have situations like default ranked Halo 3 TS vs the actual competitive and refined settings used for competition. In two separate playlists no less. Know whats even more weird? They repeat this for H2C. Why? Well I assume its because bungie created this division by creating the "real" ranked playlists for competitive players in previous games but still allowing the default experience to exist as something people could rank up in and perfect even if it wasn't really the most curated and technically challenging lineup of maps and modes. 343 is just catering to that split because its existed now for over a decade. Its also strange that historically ranked play has had fewer participants than its social counterpart and yet we only got a H2A specific ranked playlist rather than a social one.
 
Now we have a problem where H2/H3 hardcore have much less population than their default or more social counterparts. The H2A players don't have a social playlist, the H4 players don't have a ranked playlist, the H2C and H3 4v4 players are spread thin across multiple ranked playlists, and nobody is playing HCE 2v2. Unfortunately total playlist population is an important metric when you have as few players as we have and the only real way to save it, imo, is to condense the playlists. Thankfully that's actually pretty easy to do using options that are currently or were previously use in the MCC.
 
The first thing is to just remove the Arena/Hardcore split from ranked. To do this correctly we have to return to having the option to veto (its more than appropriate in this situation) and significant quit penalties. It would look something like this for H2C/H2A/H3/H4
 
Slot 1 - Random TS variant for selected game
Slot 2 - Random hardcore TS variant for selected game
Slot 3 - 50/50 toss up between hardcore obj and another random ts variant from the default settings. Maybe swap the places where hardcore ts/obj are placed if obj isn't emphasized enough after feedback.
 
pros - you move both types of ranked playlist players into one playlist for each game so that nobody just gives up when they can't get a game to play
cons - you have people quitting because they're just entirely divorced from what the other type of player wants to play. This is why the quit penalties need to be significant on top of well communicated and why these playlists should never be cross game.
 
There would still be lingering questions about things such as H3 having its own FFA playlist when you don't even have the option to play the other titles in that mode, HCE 2v2, does anyone actually play Halo 4 competitively at all, do we really need a cross game social playlist when we could just have 1 for each title, and H3 BTB vs every other type of BTB. I think H3 Lone Wolves being out there alone is just stupid personally and I would replace with a multigame list. The BTB thing I can understand. HCE 2v2 should always exist because that is THE way to play that game if you ever wish for something competitive. With social being historically much more populated I don't really think a cross game playlist for the default social experience is really warranted but maybe its a good move if you're trying to cut down the number of playlists people are visually seeing instead of worrying about what people will actually play and why (maybe its just a nudge to get people into ranked playlists and escape cross game). I'll never play H4 anything so I'm not the best person to talk to about that game.
 
The last thing I'll say is that the the overall number of playlists is meaningless. What's important is identifying what people are playing and why so that you can come up with a selection that provides both playlists which retain viable populations and provide the traditional niche players the opportunity to play what they want to play otherwise you just end up with less players than you started with. You have to cut corners sometimes with things like the hardcore playlists because if you don't you just have dead playlists like we're seeing right now but I don't believe just outright removal of hardcore gametypes is something that should be considered. Sometimes removing playlists means removing that part of the population however small.

My own list would probably be

Social
- Social slayer (cross game)
- BTB (cross game)
- Action Sack
- SWAT (cross game)
- FFA (cross game)
- H2A Team Arena
- HCE Team Arena
- H4 Team Arena

Ranked
- HCE 2v2
- H2 Team Arena
- H3 Team Arena

I don't really have an opinion about the other 2v2 games without numbers despite it being my favorite way to play them. You could probably add the rest of the Team Arena stuff from social to ranked and/or split the social multigame ts into their own social playlists and do something about action sack/swat

 

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Halo's long history of shitty playlist management is really coming to bite us in the ass right now. They're trying to recreate historical precedent to cater to people that have never actually thought objectively about what good and bad playlist management looks like.  Without mixtape and veto, this game is doomed to have too many redundant playlists because 343 can't/won't rip off the bandaid.

 

Super late edit:  The "Ripping off the bandaid" concept of course applies to us too.  If they merge the H2C Arena and Hardcore playlists for example, we kind of need to be ok with that as long as the playlist as a whole doesn't have terribad gametypes even when radar and duals are on.

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Halo's long history of shitty playlist management is really coming to bite us in the ass right now. They're trying to recreate historical precedent to cater to people that have never actually thought objectively about what good and bad playlist management looks like.  Without mixtape and veto, this game is doomed to have too many redundant playlists because 343 can't/won't rip off the bandaid.

 

Yup. What's the saying? Give an inch and they'll take a mile?

 

SWAT used to be some stupid goof off game people played in customs. Bungie catered to this group and now there's literally an entire group of Halo players that play Halo ONLY FOR SWAT.

 

They're literally playing dumbed down Call of Duty. I don't understand why. Call of Duty does everything SWAT does except 10X's more refined.

 

Same shit with Grifball. We already have a game that does this 100000X's better than Halo ever could. It's called Rocket League and it's only like $20.

 

Infection? See where I'm going with this? These game modes are just copy/pastes of modes from other games which might be cool to see in a rotation, but instead Bungie and 343 have made these into permanent game modes which is spreading the playerbase thin across so many different modes.

 

Now all of these may not be perma playlists in MCC, but I'm pretty sure they're all in H5 which also has population issues.

 

There's a good reason LoL doesn't have Ultra Rapid Fire as a permanent playlist. Because it's stupid and fun as fuck. People love it. But Riot understands that if they kept this mode a huge portion of casual players would never queue for normal games again and so it needs to be handed out in moderation. A lot of players that want to play normal games would be annoyed if queue times were doubled or tripled because another mode became too popular.

 

A good analogy would be giving kids candy. Too much candy is gonna make a kid fat, but kids love the sugar so they're always going to ask for it. As a parent you have to tell your kids no, eat your vegetables and other crap instead so you don't turn into a whale.

 

Bungie and 343 are the crappy parents that can't be bothered to be parents so they just said "fuck it kids, here's the entire pantry stocked up with junk food, go nuts".

 

Also, I'm trying to get into streaming and Halo is making it impossible. I get a bunch of people into the channel and can't keep them entertained because I either wait 10 minutes for every game or I get a bunch of leavers in every game and it turns into hide and seek.

 

I think I played 8 games tonight. In half of these it turned into 1v4. The amount of quitters in this game is unbelievable. I'm quitting out of games I'm winning because I can't be bothered to look for the final player that just refuses to quit. 1v4 should be automatic game over.

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