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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Unpopular opinion but CE BTB is awful for the most part. Slayer is ass because you're almost guaranteed to get spawntrapped because someone doesn't move and 343 is too inept to make it 100 kills to win.

CTF is decent on a few maps, but most suck as well and the spawns are god awful most of the time. Most maps are too big (the PC maps) too open (Blood Gulch) or just downright stupid (Danger Canyon) Vehicles are awkward as fuck to handle. CE does a lot of things right but BTB is not one of them.

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Hahaa.

Uh power ups still spawn on the map for the "free kills".

 

I'd rather just see less power weapons on the map but we all know 343 ain't gonna fix it.

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Unpopular opinion but CE BTB is awful for the most part. Slayer is ass because you're almost guaranteed to get spawntrapped because someone doesn't move and 343 is too inept to make it 100 kills to win.

CTF is decent on a few maps, but most suck as well and the spawns are god awful most of the time. Most maps are too big (the PC maps) too open (Blood Gulch) or just downright stupid (Danger Canyon) Vehicles are awkward as fuck to handle. CE does a lot of things right but BTB is not one of them.

I pretty much agree. If it were up to me btb would have only obj or maybe a 200 kill hangem game.

 

Sidewinder and timberlands ctf is dope.

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Just a reminder to everyone that Toxikk has THE BEST weapon spawn timer system.

 

 

No announcement to everyone (despite what many say, there IS indeed a skill in being able to keep track of weapon times during an intense game, while worrying about objectives, etc), but at the same time, I don't think it should be hidden to the casual player.

 

Times are shown when you're within a certain distance of the pick up and you have LOS to it. This means you can't see when enemies pick up the weapon and you have a clear indicator of when it's up next. Best of both worlds IMO, doesn't give too much info, but doesn't give too little.

 

Smashing casual players in Halo 1 that don't know the power up times isn't fun and the most fun moments I've had recently is taking turns baiting power ups. I sat on Damnation near shotgun and waited for some guy to get camo and TSK'ed him as soon as he picked it up. Then the next cycle I jumped to camo as it spawned and ate a direct rocket to the face. I couldn't help but smile and think "yup, I deserved that"

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They released this update too early, not even close to fixed, the only change I've noticed is the shot reg is sometimes better on CE, H2 and H2A.

 

The playlist update was fine until the last couple of days, cant find games in most playlists.

 

In a perfect world they completely fix this game, add EXP, Reach, and then make the game free for everyone.

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I don’t have a problem with alerting all players to weapon spawns in social playlists but I really think you should have to keep track of that yourself in ranked. It promotes communication and there is the possibility that you get caught up and forget which can allow the other team to capitalize on your mistake.

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Is the next ce patch going to touch the shotgun or plasma rifle . Also fix the sniper and pistol so there not see easy to use? I could see myself playing more if above are tweaked in the 4vs4 playlist.

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Ya know, one thing I really missed from CE was how Master Chief was just a dude. There wasn't a cutscene where Marines were in awe of him, or where some alien lady told him he was the chosen one-- He was a goof who was only good at blowing things up. Not Space Jesus.

Like, remember that time when he was easily tricked by Guilty Spark, and his hologram space mom yelled at him and called him an idiot? Or where he got teleported upside down, and the humor of that scene came from him falling flat on his face? That sort of stuff would never fly in a post-Halo 2 world.

It's why I really like the Rookie. He's just some new guy that no one in the squad cares about, and acts like a little kid with how he goofs around with all the clues he finds over the course of the game. Even him being asleep during the intro and epilogue is a nice nod towards his existence as just the player's avatar. He's not awake, either because the gameplay hasn't started yet, or it was over.

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Ya know, one thing I really missed from CE was how Master Chief was just a dude. There wasn't a cutscene where Marines were in awe of him, or where some alien lady told him he was the chosen one-- He was a goof who was only good at blowing things up. Not Space Jesus.

 

Like, remember that time when he was easily tricked by Guilty Spark, and his hologram space mom yelled at him and called him an idiot? Or where he got teleported upside down, and the humor of that scene came from him falling flat on his face? That sort of stuff would never fly in a post-Halo 2 world.

 

It's why I really like the Rookie. He's just some new guy that no one in the squad cares about, and acts like a little kid with how he goofs around with all the clues he finds over the course of the game. Even him being asleep during the intro and epilogue is a nice nod towards his existence as just the player's avatar. He's not awake, either because the gameplay hasn't started yet, or it was over.

"Hey look! A Mark V!"

 

They would say that on occasion in-game in CE.

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"Hey look! A Mark V!"

 

They would say that on occasion in-game in CE.

Yeah. And that was about as far as it went.

 

What's funny is that the Mark V is the armor. So they're not really impressed by you-- they just think you've got cool gear. Actually, the fact that they know what the armor is, despite Nylund explaining it as some top secret new suit that Chief JUST obtained makes me wonder if Spartans were originally just normal people in super suits.

 

Bungie were pretty against the idea of a book focused on Chief's backstory, and it really shows. The Chief that you play as in CE is nothing like the Chief in The Fall of Reach. Which is fine by me, because as good of a writer that Nylund is, I don't think I'll ever like the idea of Chief and friends being genetically superior Ubermen.

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Yeah. And that was about as far as it went.

 

What's funny is that the Mark V is the armor. So they're not really impressed by you-- they just think you've got cool gear.

 

Frankly, i dont play video games to just be "some dude".  I'm "some dude" for 24 hours a day irl.  I have no problem with playing space jesus lol.  Walking into the covenant and hearing the grunts yell, "The demon is here!" while they scatter is pretty sweet.

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Yeah. And that was about as far as it went.

 

What's funny is that the Mark V is the armor. So they're not really impressed by you-- they just think you've got cool gear. Actually, the fact that they know what the armor is, despite Nylund explaining it as some top secret new suit that Chief JUST obtained makes me wonder if Spartans were originally just normal people in super suits.

 

Bungie were pretty against the idea of a book focused on Chief's backstory, and it really shows. The Chief that you play as in CE is nothing like the Chief in The Fall of Reach. Which is fine by me, because as good of a writer that Nylund is, I don't think I'll ever like the idea of Chief and friends being genetically superior Ubermen.

Yeah I can kinda figure that. I guess that is somewhat how SPARTAN IVs are supposed to be now, lol. Just regular guys in power suits.

 

While I have generally appreciated the now established story from Fall of Reach and such, it does kinda make it hard to relate to Chief or any other SPARTAN. Makes me wonder what Bungie had in mind for the original closed-off story script for CE (as in, no sequels planned. That was forced by Microsoft).

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Frankly, i dont play video games to just be "some dude".  I'm "some dude" for 24 hours a day irl.  I have no problem with playing space jesus lol.  Walking into the covenant and hearing the grunts yell, "The demon is here!" while they scatter is pretty sweet.

I mean, Titanfall 2 was praised pretty extensively for its campaign. And you're literally just some grunt who manages to get their hands on Pilot gear, and have to prove yourself to the rest of your military.

 

I'd rather be empowered due to what I can accomplish in the game. Not by having NPCs drop to their feet and kiss the ground I walk on. To me, that's more patronizing than anything.

 

Once again, its why I think the Rookie is the best protag in the series. Any "badass" feat accomplished by the Rookie was a direct result of player input. You defeated those two hunters in the middle of the dark city. It wasn't a cutscene that every single player experiences.

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Just a reminder to everyone that Toxikk has THE BEST weapon spawn timer system.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9agj4p_L4p4

 

No announcement to everyone (despite what many say, there IS indeed a skill in being able to keep track of weapon times during an intense game, while worrying about objectives, etc), but at the same time, I don't think it should be hidden to the casual player.

 

Times are shown when you're within a certain distance of the pick up and you have LOS to it. This means you can't see when enemies pick up the weapon and you have a clear indicator of when it's up next. Best of both worlds IMO, doesn't give too much info, but doesn't give too little.

 

Smashing casual players in Halo 1 that don't know the power up times isn't fun and the most fun moments I've had recently is taking turns baiting power ups. I sat on Damnation near shotgun and waited for some guy to get camo and TSK'ed him as soon as he picked it up. Then the next cycle I jumped to camo as it spawned and ate a direct rocket to the face. I couldn't help but smile and think "yup, I deserved that"

I can kinda jive with it being not so 'in your face' about it as in H5. Also, looks like you can't see it through walls, either.

 

I kinda wonder what it would be like if pressing the back button to view the scoreboard allowed you to also see all weapon locations on the map, similar to the TAC-COM in recent Gears of War games. Add the static spawn timers shown on everything without telling you if it has been picked up or not, and it could be a nice and maybe more streamlined feature.

 

Also, @bobbyjones, I can understand how the possibility of forgetting timers could 'add' to the pressure of staying on top of things, although having reminders can't really hurt.

 

From what little I have seen of Halo CE NHE, the game adds an in-game clock and has Cortana reminding you of the time every 30 seconds, noting the 20 seconds until full minute mark, then counting down those last 10 seconds to the full minute, completed with her telling you how many minutes the game has been so far (1 minute, 2 minutes, 3, etc). Then it repeats that starting with nothing said for the first 30 seconds again, with an audible beep before each time she speaks, without ever telling you what exactly is spawning or who has what.

 

Pretty non-intrusive and reminds you to keep track without outright tracking it for you. I have no idea if there are other options for it in NHE other than that.

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i must have missed the weapon pad debate. but yeah they are 100% good for the game and I agree with you 100%. it's not fun playing CE when the other team doesnt even try to go for the power weapons and then they get frustrated because I seemingly pull rocket camo out of my ass. all it does it help people learn to play the game.

Not 100% good. The icon disappearing when weapons are picked up gives away too much info.

 

But they weapon pads are mostly a good addition- they show low level players how to play and don’t really impact high level players who know spawn times anyway.

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I mean, Titanfall 2 was praised pretty extensively for its campaign. And you're literally just some grunt who manages to get their hands on Pilot gear, and have to prove yourself to the rest of your military.

 

I'd rather be empowered due to what I can accomplish in the game. Not by having NPCs drop to their feet and kiss the ground I walk on. To me, that's more patronizing than anything.

 

Once again, its why I think the Rookie is the best protag in the series. Any "badass" feat accomplished by the Rookie was a direct result of player input. You defeated those two hunters in the middle of the dark city. It wasn't a cutscene that every single player experiences.

 

And the whole time you play that game the enemy comms get more and more frustrated with you.  I don't understand how being a feared enemy or revered ally takes away in any capacity from your empowerment in-game.   Thats all to devs deciding to let you play through the climactic scenes (Taking down the scarab in Halo 2 and 3 and the rookie taking down the hunters for examples) or forcing you to just watch (quick-time event at the end of halo 4, the fight with Locke in Halo 5).

 

I also don't like protagonists that don't talk. It feels soulless. To me, shooter campaigns aren't like RPGs. You're aren't building a character.  You don't make story decisions with any real consequence to the outcome and the campaigns themselves are relatively short.  I am "in the shoes" of the character enough just just controlling their actions, beyond that i want to be told a story in a way the writers intended.  

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And the whole time you play that game the enemy comms get more and more frustrated with you.  I don't understand how being a feared enemy or revered ally takes away in any capacity from your empowerment in-game.   Thats all to devs deciding to let you play through the climactic scenes (Taking down the scarab in Halo 2 and 3 and the rookie taking down the hunters for examples) or forcing you to just watch (quick-time event at the end of halo 4, the fight with Locke in Halo 5).

 

I also don't like protagonists that don't talk. It feels soulless. To me, shooter campaigns aren't like RPGs. You're aren't building a character.  You don't make story decisions with any real consequence to the outcome and the campaigns themselves are relatively short.  I am "in the shoes" of the character enough just just controlling their actions, beyond that i want to be told a story in a way the writers intended.  

What I find empowering is overcoming the odds. It's why I love stealth games so much. You're objectively weaker than the enemies you face, yet you are able to triumph by utilizing your own cunning. But story-wise, that's hard to accomplish when your character is recognized as the coolest dude in the world.

 

My heroic ideal also really doesn't line up with what Chief becomes after CE. I prefer for my heroes to be humble. Not just in attitude, but in how the narrative itself treats them. Like, ODST is humble. Just a game about a guy lost in a city, trying to survive. But there's nothing humble about flying through space with a bomb while spitting out action movie one-liners. Right after making an appearance on TV and walking through a crowd of adoring fans. Just because Chief doesn't care about being hailed as the messiah doesn't change the fact that the game presents him as such.

 

I prefer the every-man, not the Superman. I like the contrast of ordinary person thrust into extraordinary situations.

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I played Hang em KotH in BTB a little while back and it was fantastic, mostly because it was actually to 5 minutes. Who knew?!  Now just ditch the stupid radar and make 10sec respawns and you actually have a good gametype.

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Yeah I can kinda figure that. I guess that is somewhat how SPARTAN IVs are supposed to be now, lol. Just regular guys in power suits.

 

While I have generally appreciated the now established story from Fall of Reach and such, it does kinda make it hard to relate to Chief or any other SPARTAN. Makes me wonder what Bungie had in mind for the original closed-off story script for CE (as in, no sequels planned. That was forced by Microsoft).

It still gets me that Nylund decided to include a chapter in which he confirms that Halsey is sexually attracted to John. Ya know. The woman who was practically a maternal figure to the kids.

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It still gets me that Nylund decided to include a chapter in which he confirms that Halsey is sexually attracted to John. Ya know. The woman who was practically a maternal figure to the kids.

Uh, what? I don't quite remember reading that. Would kind of explain some things with Cortana in an awkward way though.

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Once again, its why I think the Rookie is the best protag in the series. Any "badass" feat accomplished by the Rookie was a direct result of player input. You defeated those two hunters in the middle of the dark city. It wasn't a cutscene that every single player experiences.

"Sure", but I'd be willing to argue every single player who played ODST went through that experience. And sure, each experience may be a result of the player's action, but I don't really think that places an extra emphasis on it when the exact same went for Halo 3, when you do the same thing against an army in The Storm. Especially when you're actually guided along that path at certain points in the game to get to other clues and conflict is basically inevitable, lol. 

 

To me, silent protags are almost comically lazy in most cases. Sure, you can make them physically quirky and expressive, but you lose an entire aspect to them that can make them who they are. Think the only "good" silent protag in recent memory was the 2009 Ghostbusters rookie, who could actually emote facially, which gave you some level of characterization, more so than the Rookie. And it worked in the game's silly and serious nature, since he never actually needed to talk. But it weirds me out to have someone so silent in an environment where he'd NEED to communicate. Feels almost out of place, especially when the rest of the ODSTs are polar opposites to the rookie.

 

I don't have an issue with being "some dude", but I personally don't think a humble nature for a game comes from that inherently. I think multiple things will make a game or its plot or tone humble like that.

 

Like Halo 4. Sure, you have the Librarian singing John's praises as a ghost. But then right after that entire short scenario is done, and even after John completes his mission, there are STILL military issues with Del Rio, and how the latter views the former that brings John down from god-status, to some person who is simply looking out for his one, and maybe only partner and friend in spite of all the lines he may cross. Which leads to him literally being abandoned on Requiem. It has this good 180 where they somehow take the plot notches down by 6,000 and still keep John as someone who's grounded, simple, and human. He's not having his praises sung, being paraded around as a figurative god, having adoring fans around him, or a currently city to world ending objective up until Composer. He's alone in his quest to try and stop what he deems a threat, while trying to stop his friend from dying. And I think that's better, especially with the given dialogue.

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I don't have an issue with being "some dude", but I personally don't think a humble nature for a game comes from that inherently. I think multiple things will make a game or its plot or tone humble like that.

 

Like Halo 4. Sure, you have the Librarian singing John's praises as a ghost. But then right after that entire short scenario is done, and even after John completes his mission, there are STILL military issues with Del Rio, and how the latter views the former that brings John down from god-status, to some person who is simply looking out for his one, and maybe only partner and friend in spite of all the lines he may cross. Which leads to him literally being abandoned on Requiem. It has this good 180 where they somehow take the plot notches down by 6,000 and still keep John as someone who's grounded, simple, and human. He's not having his praises sung, being paraded around as a figurative god, having adoring fans around him, or a currently city to world ending objective up until Composer. He's alone in his quest to try and stop what he deems a threat, while trying to stop his friend from dying. And I think that's better, especially with the given dialogue.

My problem with Del Rio is how he is portrayed as being irrational, incompetent, and cowardly. He is punished by the narrative for speaking out against Chief and relieved of his position, even though Del Rio wasn't necessarily wrong. 

 

Think about it-- the Infinity is basically the UNSC's last lifeline, and it was instantly disabled when it came to Requiem. A planet inhabited by a member of a race with technological achievements beyond even the alien coalition that nearly drove humanity to extinction less than a decade ago. And if they were to die on Requiem, no one back on Earth would even be aware of the threat. If you ask me, if my so-called super ship got grounded within mere moments without so much as a fight, I'd try to get the hell out of dodge too.

 

But the game doesn't acknowledge Del Rio's concerns as valid. Sure, he is a character that stands against the Chief, but is made out to be in the wrong entirely. Chief does not make a mistake, the fault lies with Del Rio and his failure to bend to Chief's will.

 

 

"Sure", but I'd be willing to argue every single player who played ODST went through that experience. And sure, each experience may be a result of the player's action, but I don't really think that places an extra emphasis on it when the exact same went for Halo 3, when you do the same thing against an army in The Storm. Especially when you're actually guided along that path at certain points in the game to get to other clues and conflict is basically inevitable, lol. 

 

To me, silent protags are almost comically lazy in most cases. Sure, you can make them physically quirky and expressive, but you lose an entire aspect to them that can make them who they are. Think the only "good" silent protag in recent memory was the 2009 Ghostbusters rookie, who could actually emote facially, which gave you some level of characterization, more so than the Rookie. And it worked in the game's silly and serious nature, since he never actually needed to talk. But it weirds me out to have someone so silent in an environment where he'd NEED to communicate. Feels almost out of place, especially when the rest of the ODSTs are polar opposites to the rookie.

Every player has faced the obstacles the game has laid out before them in order to reach the end, yes. How they have done it (or how many attempts it took) varies from player to player. That's generally how games work compared to passive mediums, such as a cutscene in which there is no player input.

 

I don't think you quite understand why the Rookie is the way he is. It is not for the sake of "laziness". I believe that interpretation itself is lazy. The Rookie's silence is in service of the experience that New Mombasa is meant to provide. To make the player experience the same isolation that the Rookie does. To have their attention focused on other sounds in the environment, such as the Superintendent's announcements, or just the ambiance of New Mombasa. 

 

The other characters are so radically different to the Rookie because their levels are radically different.

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My problem with Del Rio is how he is portrayed as being irrational, incompetent, and cowardly. He is punished by the narrative for speaking out against Chief and relieved of his position, even though Del Rio wasn't necessarily wrong. 

 

Think about it-- the Infinity is basically the UNSC's last lifeline, and it was instantly disabled when it came to Requiem. A planet inhabited by a member of a race with technological achievements beyond even the alien coalition that nearly drove humanity to extinction less than a decade ago. And if they were to die on Requiem, no one back on Earth would even be aware of the threat. If you ask me, if my so-called super ship got grounded within mere moments without so much as a fight, I'd try to get the hell out of dodge too.

 

But the game doesn't acknowledge Del Rio's concerns as valid. Sure, he is a character that stands against the Chief, but is made out to be in the wrong entirely.

See, the only thing Del Rio was implied to have been punished for was leaving Chief on Requiem as per Midnight's dialogue, which I can at least get when Chief was a war hero by that point and they basically ditched him. Although that was orchestrated by Lasky, lel. There's nothing indicating Del Rio's actions of leaving alone were the cause of his demotion, when yes, he was right. I never felt like he was punished for doing the right thing since they don't chastise him for leaving. Only for letting Chief go solo, which I can see an argument of negligence for.

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