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CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Here’s something for you to read:

 

One big thing about power weapons, especially ones on static timers, is that they give structure to the game. They draw players to certain areas, at certain times, and create engagements where players fight. Without pick ups, players are just bumping into each other by chance. That is fine sometimes but there is a whole nother layer of depth when two teams are setting up for an upcoming pick up. How they do it, when they do it, how many players they commit to it, what they do with the pick up once they get it or how they counter the enemy team who got it.

 

That is the reason why Power Ups and Power weapons need to be strong, or as you say cheesebally. Because no one is going to set up for something that doesn’t give them a significant advantage.

You act like map movement is literally random in and of itself, like it has no structure in and of itself without a pickup to move towards, which is straight wrongo. And if you design a map well, you can literally funnel people towards engagement zones through some simple pathing without an emphasis on power weapons. Midship, Sanctuary, and Warlock all do this well.

 

And the things you can apply to pickups you can also apply to a flag. And you know what? The flag is a better thing to dedicate resources to making players push towards. Because you know what a significant advantage is? A point on the scoreboard.

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the things you can apply to pickups you can also apply to a flag.

No, you can’t. You never have two teams setting up to acquire a central flag at a specific time and then using the advantages that flag provides to make a concentrated push.

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No, you can’t. You never have two teams setting up to acquire a central flag at a specific time and then using the advantages that flag provides to make a concentrated push.

You're right!

 

Neutral Bomb, however...

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No, you can’t. You never have two teams setting up to acquire a central flag at a specific time and then using the advantages that flag provides to make a concentrated push.

Since when are power weapons and pickups always central, now? Lol. Plenty of maps have them in oblong areas on the map. Guardian, Ascension, Eden, Plaza, Lockout, Chill Out, to name a few. Also feels like you forgot neutral bomb/flag, lol.

 

Still doesn't stop how flags operate identically, right down to...

How they do it, when they do it, how many players they commit to it, what they do with the pick up once they get it or how they counter the enemy team who got it.

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Yeah. Neutral flag. Great idea. You slay the other team to acquire it then carry it back to your base uncontested. Sounds like an ideal gametype.

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Yeah. Neutral flag. Great idea. You slay the other team to acquire it then carry it back to your base uncontested. Sounds like an ideal gametype.

As compared to normal CTF, where you slay the other team to acquire their flag and bring it back to your base uncontested. Sounds like an ideal gametype.

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As compared to normal CTF, where you slay the team to acquire their flag and bring it back to your base uncontested. Sounds like an ideal gametype.

Except they spawn twice as far away and you carry it half the distance. And they have no option to pull your flag to prevent you from capping.

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Except they spawn twice as far away and you carry it half the distance. And they have no option to pull your flag to prevent you from capping.

I don't even get what you're going at now, but whew. Real point's far gone, now. We're never getting it back. 

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I don't even get what you're going at now, but whew. Real point's far gone, now. We're never getting it back.

 

The point is that your solutions are not as good as you think they are. Fighting over a neutral flag is in no way the same as fighting over a neutral power weapon then using that power weapon to attempt to pull a base flag.

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The point is that your solutions are not as good as you think they are. Fighting over a neutral flag is in no way the same as fighting over a neutral power weapon then using that power weapon to attempt to pull a base flag.

Except I never fucking said that, lmao. I literally said the exact fucking opposite by stating how shit isn't always central and listing off examples of where it's not. I only spoke on how neutral flag and normal CTF are borderline identical when you boil them down to their base general elements. It was a sarcastic mockery of the generalization.

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Another thing pick ups do is force teams to decide how they want to divide their resources. Do they want to send the entire team to secure rockets or do they want to keep two players watching flanking routes and send two players to secure rockets. Decisions like these aren’t made when the only pertinent item is the objective.

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Another thing pick ups do is force teams to decide how they want to divide their resources. Do they want to send the entire team to secure rockets or do they want to keep two players watching flanking routes and send two players to secure rockets. Decisions like these aren’t made when the only pertinent item is the objective.

Except they do. Cuz the map is still the same layout. Do you send 2 to flank one side? Do you 3-1 split the map? Do you push 2 and 2? The resource management is still there it's just not to obtain a free kill weapon. You still make choices on where and how you're gonna push. But I guess maps that dont have a ton of power weapons have literally no movement or skill at all.
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Except they do. Cuz the map is still the same layout. Do you send 2 to flank one side? Do you 3-1 split the map? Do you push 2 and 2? The resource management is still there it's just not to obtain a free kill weapon. You still make choices on where and how you're gonna push. But I guess maps that dont have a ton of power weapons have literally no movement or skill at all.

Have you ever seen a team send three players into the enemy flag? No, one player goes in while the others cover spawns. This is not the same as fighting over a neutral power weapon.

 

Look, I understand because a power weapon and a flag are both things you can pick up off the map that if you boil it down to the most general sense that anything you say about one you can say about the other but in reality that’s not how it plays out.

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Have you ever seen a team send three players into the enemy flag? No, one player goes in while the others cover spawns. This is not the same as fighting over a neutral power weapon.

 

Look, I understand because a power weapon and a flag are both things you can pick up off the map that if you boil it down to the most general sense that anything you say about one you can say about the other but in reality that’s not how it plays out.

Wow that starting statement couldn't be more wrong lmao. You really don't know what you're talking about.

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Yea it's this crazy thing called differing opinions. No one is calling you a fucking moron for liking them but yea man keep it going. Insult the opposition it always works.

 

Where exactly did I call someone a moron in my post? Because I most certainly didn't. Nowhere in my post did I insult anyone. However, I will now. You're a moron. Not because you have a different opinion, but because you tried putting words in my mouth and legit thought no one would notice.

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This thread is a fucking roller coaster. Some of the stuff being said is dumber than the ideas Boyo would post. 

 

 

10/10 Good read would come back again. 

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I for one enjoy getting up in the morning and having 5+ pages to catch up on. Even if it's not the brightest debate we've had, it's still interesting to read.

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Side bar:  While i still prefer objective gametypes, between the arguments i have read in this conversation and my recent experiences trying to learn CE, i have become convinced that slayer is a fine competitively viable gametype and that its just been very poorly executed since Halo 2.  Really, if it weren't for Halo 5's power rangers abilities that partially negate enemy positional advantages, H5 would have the best implementation of slayer since CE for the sole fact that at least power weapons are on static timers.

 

  • Static timers for power weapons and power ups
  • Delayed item spawns on asymmetrical maps
  • Some sort of power item popping at least every 60 seconds. Sometimes a single item, sometimes multiple. NOT placed in power positions
  • Grenade physics that can interact with power items in a meaningful way.
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Where exactly did I call someone a moron in my post? Because I most certainly didn't. Nowhere in my post did I insult anyone. However, I will now. You're a moron. Not because you have a different opinion, but because you tried putting words in my mouth and legit thought no one would notice.

LOL literally re read the post I responded to. Literally re read it. You don't have to explicitly state "you're a moron" to imply it. Holy shit man at least own your insults. What a joke.

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