Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

That literally just sounds obnoxious, lmao. "I got a kill with this easy thing, then killed a dude who couldn't even see me, then killed a sniper with another easy thing". Which I wish was just a stretch generalization. Because none of that has to do with "skill". It's all centered around an easy pickup and another pickup that makes you literally invisible to everyone in an "ideal" comp environment. Definition of cheeseball.

 

And I don't get how, again, powerups/weapons are what make you move, not an objective or slay potential. If you were playing an obj, yunno, the only gametype that should matter, you're gonna be moving regardless of a powerup/power weapon's presence. You're not fighting for their drops, you're fighting to drop them.

 

You'd have a great time playing duel in Quake.

Share this post


Link to post

Halo 1 is the only game in the series where the strength of power ups and power weapons is low relative to the base strength of individual players. Maybe you disagree, but I find the teamwork that goes into controlling power ups and power weapons throughout a match to be extremely dynamic and interesting. It provides far more entertaining moments when someone goes off on a 5 or 10 kill spree with sniper headshots vs someone team-pistoling and getting those sprees. It doesn't take as much strategy to overcome an opponents position if everyone has the same weapon which equates to a less interesting meta in the gameplay.

 

Thanks for ignoring my entire post btw!

No probs, dude.

 

And I find the teamwork that goes into making a proper push for an obj to be ten times better than that of a push for a free kill machine which is wholly uninteresting and nearly always skilless (Hyperbolically) when put into use.

 

I don't get how some dude using an easy ass sniper and going on a spree is somehow better than someone going on a spree just out-pistoling people, either. On any level. Because one involves an easy OHKO machine, whereas the other is you just out-dicking everyone else with your basic weapon. Just reminds me of the people who scream and shout in a tournament audience when someone gets a double kill or noscope with a snipe in Halo 5 that literally aims for you, lel.

 

I'm guessing you're just gonna not respond to my original question? Please stop calling out others than for doing the same.

 

From your counter-points, I feel like I've had an opposite experience with CE from you. I think we should first establish some sort of baseline. Is what you're proposing supposed to cater towards the competitive or the casual crowd?

 

I'm saying from plenty of experience..

 

1) The cooldown times completely matter. There are plenty of times in top tier games where the rocket doesn't kill the enemy and the enemy is able to pistol the rocket guy. More commonly is that a teammate can shoot the rocket guy before he has time to fire the second one. 

2) What's the counterpoint with an okay? Isn't the issue that power weapons are free kills and too easy to use? If so then this goes against it.

3) How hard is the learning curve to lead your shots? You can fire a rocket or shoot the halo 3 BR right? Again, I thought the issue was easy OS.

4) Shotgun isn't just a insta-kill get out of jail free card. Figured that might be a good thing to you.

5) Is camo too easy? If so, are nades not powerful enough? It's really not that hard to nade spam camo or guess where he is. Once he's made it away with it in an area you didn't see, then sure he has a big advantage. I'm in the boat where YOU fucked up by letting it happen, not the boat where I feel my pistol shot is better therefor his kill is random and skillless.

6) Is your example from Halo CE? There's plenty of times where people get 3 shotted before having time to react, so you can get a few shots off on an OS guy before he even begins to find you. If you choose to shoot him when he is not looking, near an overshield spawn at an overshield minute than I really don't know why you would do that. Even if you didn't think it was up, a nade under his feet is much better. Sure, something visible would be nice but is this something you can't anticipate?

 

I'd save the post if you aren't going to respond to these points using some actual substance behind them.

 

I just asked if you guys were looking for something more like Onslaught CTF than Octagon. I'm not sure where I'm losing you guys but I feel like all of the skills you just mentioned does exist on Onslaught. Do those skills not exist on that map? I am also asking, which utility weapon feels skillful enough on its own that we can base the entire gameplay around it?

 

Your second question depends on the map/modes/game. Are you talking about slayer or obj here? In terms of OBJ yeah there is still incentive to move unless you are the team up. Then it depends but regardless of the context I don't see an improvement in gameplay by eliminating power weapons in place of a pure utility weapon game when the utility weapon on its own isn't skillful enough to warrant it.

1.) Yeah, and there are plenty of times where it downright nukes the dude. What's your point, exactly? That a cooldown may play a part in some dude being turned on?

2.) The okay referred to the "Is one of the harder ones" statements in a franchise where only one sniper rifle's ever been truly hard. Meaning you're not only setting the bar extremely low, but not really being impressive. Besides, I've used CE's sniper, on OG Xbox and MCC. It's nothing really special on its own. Can be a two shot machine, lol. Certainly not the easiest, but far from a stretch in being some hard weapon.

3.) It isn't really hard. Not really my point. I just put emphasis on how you need to pick up a gun and learn how to use it efficiently just to melt an OS, effectively. 

4.) Depends. In close range, where the shotgun tends to be located, kiss your ass goodbye.  If someone plays dumb with it, obviously not. Circumstantial.

5.) WHEW don't get me started on nade spam and how much of a shit set of mechanics that is. Especially with CE's comparable Nagasakinades. Probably one of the cheesiest things about Halo's base set of weapons, lel.

6.) Again, circumstantial as hell. Still dumb to jump into a fight not knowing if the dude has OS, 100%.

 

Never will I talk about Slayer. Slayer's garbage, will never be considered for any constructive thing I make/propose past "remove plz", lol. Always assume obj.

 

To get to the point here, you have an issue with how skillful the utility of a Halo is. Okay. So the solution is to be skeptical at the idea of removing shit easier than it, for some reason, just because of said lack of skill, and how you feel the game couldn't just support a utility... Yeeeeeeeet, you're fine with it supporting shit that's infinitely cheesier than the utility ever will be. Literally don't get it. If you have an issue with how easy the utility is, why the hell is it fine to make stuff that's easier and worse than it.

You'd have a great time playing duel in Quake.

Ten bucks says I probably would, but HAHAA, I'm scamming myself by never playing it. JWE calls.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm having fun with the game.

 

It's not perfect but it's definitely something positive.

 

It makes me wonder "What if?" of course, but I guess better late than never. I don't think anything short of having Halo: Reach added to the collection will really make a dent in my disappointment with 343, but this is a start.

 

I still think the only reason we even got this corrective patch was because Infinite was not remotely on schedule for their typical 3 year release window. This patch is only here to bridge the gap between Halo 5 and Infinite, and I think the addition of Reach would make that possible for me.

 

Here's hoping.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Power up/weapon control is an interesting wrinkle when it comes to match flow. Especially with the offset/static timers. It’s another thing for teams to have to think about in addition to playing the objective, which creates an opportunity for swings that I don’t believe we’d see as often w/o them.

 

Execution of power ups/weapons has left much to be desired over the years, but nixing them all together wouldn’t make halo more fun or more interesting.

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I don't care about 1v1 or 2v2 man relax. And yea 1v1 definitely shouldn't have power weapons or power ups lmao it's horrible with them. and yea I still prefer no power weapon 2v2 you just need maps that aren't as far and have established power positions to fight over.

Yeah, nah.

 

Sorry mate but this is Waypoint tier opinion on game design.

 

No power ups in a 1v1?

 

Have you ever played in a 1v1 tournament in any arena FPS? I've got experience playing 1v1 tournaments in both UT2K4 and Halo and this idea that duels should involve nothing but BR battles is hilarious.

 

So what, players just take turns pitching up a tent in whatever position is deemed the easiest to defend?

 

There's literally no incentive to move in a 1v1 without power ups or power weapons once you have a good position.

 

I had to double check the URL when I read this.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Yeah, nah.

 

Sorry mate but this is Waypoint tier opinion on game design.

 

No power ups in a 1v1?

 

Have you ever played in a 1v1 tournament in any arena FPS? I've got experience playing 1v1 tournaments in both UT2K4 and Halo and this idea that duels should involve nothing but BR battles is hilarious.

 

So what, players just take turns pitching up a tent in whatever position is deemed the easiest to defend?

 

There's literally no incentive to move in a 1v1 without power ups or power weapons once you have a good position.

 

I had to double check the URL when I read this.

Cool story bro
  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I find it funny that Ice Princess and Beast are usually two of the first to get upset over somebody saying their opinion is dumb, but will constantly dismiss and use sarcasm when defending their arguments.

 

Just a funny observation I had.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

There's literally no incentive to move in a 1v1 without power ups or power weapons once you have a good position.

 

-Grenades (could be considered a power weapon for sake of argument though).

-Limited Ammunition (ex. not a giant stockpile off-spawn that will last you ten frags).

-Health pickups for non recharging health (camping doesn't work forever if the enemy can whittle down your health constantly).

 

The last two combined, the enemy just has to bait you into expending your ammo and control the medkits that you don't have access to because you're camping.

 

Though yeah over 50% of the game would be camping anyways.  But this is not an entirely accurate statement.

 

It would also be possible to add further incentives that aren't just "I'm better at combat now".  Like having objectives such as a point-scoring hill in unfavorable locations.

Share this post


Link to post

I find it funny that Ice Princess and Beast are usually two of the first to get upset over somebody saying their opinion is dumb, but will constantly dismiss and use sarcasm when defending their arguments.

 

Just a funny observation I had.

Cooler story bro

Share this post


Link to post

Cooler story bro

Feel free to take notes so your next post has a little substance to it.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I find it funny that Ice Princess and Beast are usually two of the first to get upset over somebody saying their opinion is dumb, but will constantly dismiss and use sarcasm when defending their arguments.

 

Just a funny observation I had.

What are you even on about, lmao. I haven't once shown offense to someone calling my opinion dumb. And the one time someone did, to my face, I told them to prove me wrong. Why would I get offended or upset someone disagrees with me, when the point of my comments is to spurn a discussion

 

I'll be sarcastic, sure, welcome to having a bit of a biting personality. I like being snarky or juvenile while commenting, because I can't be assed to take it seriously, but you'd be gravely mistaken if you somehow think throughout all of this I've gotten upset once. Think my tone's lost in translation. 

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Feel free to take notes so your next post has a little substance to it.

Yea man my last essay to Teapot didn't just happen or anything but hey I'm just mad hehe
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

What are you even on about, lmao. I haven't once shown offense to someone calling my opinion dumb. And the one time someone did, to my face, I told them to prove me wrong. Why would I get offended or upset someone disagrees with me, when the point of my comments is to spurn a discussion

 

I'll be sarcastic, sure, welcome to having a bit of a biting personality. I like being snarky or juvenile while commenting, because I can't be assed to take it seriously, but you'd be gravely mistaken if you somehow think throughout all of this I've gotten upset once. Think my tone's lost in translation. 

You were literally offended the other day over some of the things Hard Way said. Meanwhile you're over here trying to make people sound dumb by finding something the other person didn't explain completely and making fun of it. Then you ignore the rest of their post to make them write their response completely again until they exhaust themselves and stop posting. It's a mixture of dismissing their argument, the use of sarcasm, refusing to accept a good point somebody else makes, and continuing to hide behind this veil of never doing anything wrong that makes debating with you so frustrating.

 

When looking at your previous posts, I found this gem that explains a lot. To be fair, it's out of context, you were talking about playing Halo, but I rarely converse with people who say stuff like this because I can guess that it trickles into other aspects of their life. Direct quote, from you on September 9th "As Beast said, I live to make people angry. It's hilarious to."

 

Anyway, good luck with your future debates with other people on this site.

  • Upvote (+1) 5
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

You were literally offended the other day over some of the things Hard Way said. Meanwhile you're over here trying to make people sound dumb by finding something the other person didn't explain completely and making fun of it. Then you ignore the rest of their post to make them write their response completely again until they exhaust themselves and stop posting. It's a mixture of dismissing their argument, the use of sarcasm, refusing to accept a good point somebody else makes, and continuing to hide behind this veil of never doing anything wrong that makes debating with you so frustrating.

 

When looking at your previous posts, I found this gem that explains a lot. To be fair, it's out of context, you were talking about playing Halo, but I rarely converse with people who say stuff like this because I can guess that it trickles into other aspects of their life. Direct quote, from you on September 9th "As Beast said, I live to make people angry. It's hilarious to."

 

Anyway, good luck with your future debates with other people on this site.

When was I ever offended over Hard Way's post, lol. I disagree with him inherently on matters like party chat, but bar using "tense" lingo, I didn't really take the other argument super seriously past being baffled at certain statements, lol. Like safe spaces. That one just fucked my head. Again, as I said, probably tone being lost in text translation. Why in the hell is it worth getting offended over what people think is good or bad in a game where I will still do things my way regardless because of that power of choice? It's not worth it. At all. So I don't.

 

Although, one thing that got me was the "refusal to accept a good point". TEN BUCKS says this is going to go into an appeal to popularity, but I find it hilarious that somehow, disagreeing with a decision on what's good for gameplay means I refuse to accept a perceived "good" point. Maybe the point just wasn't very good, or at least as good as one thinks, lol. Or, one is stuck in a certain mindset based on certain prior experiences with a game and group, and due to the normal, and generally uncontested nature of X point, just outright doesn't think "hey, maybe this could have flaws, or be outright detrimental, even if it's been a consistent factor in said franchise". 

 

It's just godly that one thinks I'm just "refusing" to accept a good point like I can't be convinced or don't want to be. Which is hilarious given the swing in being convinced of certain things I've had in my time since I arrived here. It's not a matter of that, I just find points to be hilariously flawed, and not much has convinced me otherwise, especially here with the concession by you that power weapons are easy, but worthy of the sacrifice of a "little" relative skill for the sake of entertainment, when, yunno, my entire point lays in how power weapons are mechanically easy, and should either be radically changed, or, given how they probably won't be, removed. You can literally say I'm "refusing to see a point", but even you conceded to the idea that power weapons are easy in some capacity, and while that's not the only reason I hold to my argument, it's just a crack in that argument.

 

Finally, if you don't see how players trying to fight for a power weapon doesn't make an objective vulnerable, and how that's interesting to play, then I don't know what to tell you. The very presence of power items makes the mental dynamic ten times more interesting and I'm happy to sacrifice a little physical skill for that.

 

And yeah, the quote's entirely out of context. Because I don't actually live to piss random people off, bar like, bagging BKs and random sweaties. Because it's too easy in game, lol. I enjoy shittalk like that. Should be obvious a person trying to successfully piss people off isn't gonna betray the fact they do it. Because then the gig is up and people don't react when they know the motive.

Share this post


Link to post

Entertainment. That’s what she took away from all this. Power weapons are good because entertainment.

Now, if that's what you took from what I wrote, this is the ultimate irony in what I was accused of, lmao. 

 

I didn't once say power weapons are only good because of entertainment. I said that one concedes to the idea of them because of that. It boosts entertainment value due to the conflict they cause, which was the point. In spite of their ease of use, they have a funky effect on the game, and that was what brought a sense of fun, uniqueness, w/e. And I explicitly said that while I think it by proxy agreeing with the point of the fact power weapons are mechanically easy brings some value to the point I'm trying to raise, it's not the only reason I think this way. At all. You'd have seen that if you, whew, read my stuff. I've literally been through this song and dance of having to break down what I'm saying to a basic premise with you at least 3 times, now. And I outright don't get it.

Share this post


Link to post

You don’t really have to break anything down. Have you made any other points besides “power weapons are easy to use therefore they are stupid and shouldn’t be in the game”?

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Anybody having problems getting games in CE 2v2 today?

I wasn’t having any problems during the time you posted. I did get kicked from a game for no reason, however. I’m in CST.

Share this post


Link to post

Personally I don't like the CTF meta of clamping down on spawns where they have no chance to fight back and no choice in the spawn. I like CE because most of your spawns are fully controllable and you can choose safe or risky spawns depending on play style which adds depth.

 

If the only reason to move with a lead in CTF without power weapons is to clamp down on spawns then I don't care for it.

 

I enjoy the powerup meta in CE because there's a lot of risk reward to it and there's mind games around it. KOTH or Territories with only skilled weaponry and no powerups is an interesting idea but there's also not much room for variety in how these play out. In damnation on CE you can move the camo around ten different ways and bait the other team to go for it. In territories there's just the location which can be entered from several different ways, and there's very little variety in how you can "bait" it. It's more just clear the area and then cap it. It can't be moved to a different location (either sneakily or obviously depending on if you want to bait it in an open area or grab it yourself without them knowing). There's limited ways that a territory can play it in comparison imo.

 

As for the powerups themselves, I think camo use has a lot of depth behind it. You can die very easily with it if you're not careful in CE. Sometimes you have to hold your nerve and not shoot back. It can create very tense exciting unique gameplay moments.

 

As for OS I agree it should be more obvious as to who has it ala Halo 3. But I think for 2v2 there is skill in determining which of your opponents has the OS or if they even picked it up yet. It also creates depth because you have to approach it differently ie go for riskier high DPS weapons to counter it like the sniper rifle or plasma rifle.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

You don’t really have to break anything down. Have you made any other points besides “power weapons are easy to use therefore they are stupid and shouldn’t be in the game”?

I mean, yes, again, if you'd have read my past shit, you'd have seen I've made other points, lol.

Share this post


Link to post

I mean, yes, again, if you'd have read my past shit, you'd have seen I've made other points, lol.

Here’s something for you to read:

 

One big thing about power weapons, especially ones on static timers, is that they give structure to the game. They draw players to certain areas, at certain times, and create engagements where players fight. Without pick ups, players are just bumping into each other by chance. That is fine sometimes but there is a whole nother layer of depth when two teams are setting up for an upcoming pick up. How they do it, when they do it, how many players they commit to it, what they do with the pick up once they get it or how they counter the enemy team who got it.

 

That is the reason why Power Ups and Power weapons need to be strong, or as you say cheesebally. Because no one is going to set up for something that doesn’t give them a significant advantage.

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.