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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Timing a power weapon isn’t where the skill is involved. Using your positioning and gun skill to beat the enemy who is also preparing to grab it is.

 

And then you pick up what is the most skilless part of the game and get some free kills as a reward. Nice.

 

What are you guys looking to play ideally then? If not octagon, then what? Onslaught?

 

How are any of the utility weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant the entire game to consist of these gunfights?

 

How are any of Halo's power weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant dedicating a game's formula to retrieving and using them over your utility. 

 

Seriously. 

 

Halo isn't some super hard game to shoot in, BUT there is a shooting skillgap there. Not everyone is able to compete on the same level by any means. Pretty evident. And I would take that alone over power weapons, now.

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How are any of Halo's power weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant dedicating a game's formula to retrieving and using them over your utility.

Halo games have a pretty popular playlist dedicated to using the Sniper Rifle so lots of people must find it fun.

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How are any of Halo's power weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant dedicating a game's formula to retrieving and using them over your utility.

 

Seriously.

 

Halo isn't some super hard game to shoot in, BUT there is a shooting skillgap there. Not everyone is able to compete on the same level by any means. Pretty evident. And I would take that alone over power weapons, now.

Using rockets isn't that fun, but fighting for the rockets, winning the team fight to secure them, then killing another player with them before they grab the camo that you knew was coming up and successfully baited to get an extra point, and using the camo to flank behind their spawn and getting a backsmack followed by using a rocket to kill the enemy sniper, and picking up the sniper and getting a spawn kill. That's fun.

 

Compared to getting a kill in a power position, then staying in the power position because there's no need to move because there's no power ups or power weapons to fight for and the enemy won't drop anything you don't already have.

 

Edit: I'm going to be called out for simplifying it too much. Yes, Warlock BRs works well. I don't mind one gametype being utility weapon only, it can be fun, but I don't want every gametype to be that. Almost every map in Halo wouldn't work if you had zero reason to move.

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Halo games have a pretty popular playlist dedicated to using the Sniper Rifle so lots of people must find it fun.

I should've narrowed it down to skill, because I also remembered people find AR starts fun. So, to reiterate: How are any of Halo's power weapons skillful enough to warrant dedicating a game's formula to retrieving and using them over your utility.

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Using rockets isn't that fun, but fighting for the rockets, winning the team fight to secure them, then killing another player with them before they grab the camo that you knew was coming up and successfully baited to get an extra point, and using the camo to flank behind their spawn and getting a backsmack followed by using a rocket to kill the enemy sniper, and picking up the sniper and getting a spawn kill. That's fun.

 

Compared to getting a kill in a power position, then staying in the power position because there's no need to move because there's no power ups or power weapons to fight for and the enemy won't drop anything you don't already have.

That literally just sounds obnoxious, lmao. "I got a kill with this easy thing, then killed a dude who couldn't even see me, then killed a sniper with another easy thing". Which I wish was just a stretch generalization. Because none of that has to do with "skill". It's all centered around an easy pickup and another pickup that makes you literally invisible to everyone in an "ideal" comp environment. Definition of cheeseball.

 

And I don't get how, again, powerups/weapons are what make you move, not an objective or slay potential. If you were playing an obj, yunno, the only gametype that should matter, you're gonna be moving regardless of a powerup/power weapon's presence. You're not fighting for their drops, you're fighting to drop them.

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How are any of Halo's power weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant dedicating a game's formula to retrieving and using them over your utility. 

 

Seriously. 

 

Halo isn't some super hard game to shoot in, BUT there is a shooting skillgap there. Not everyone is able to compete on the same level by any means. Pretty evident. And I would take that alone over power weapons, now.

 

I feel like I just read a few posts of yours telling people they aren't responding to your actual point. Why would you do the exact same to my post?

 

  1. Halo CE's rockets take time to travel, have a very long cooldown time in-between shots and are incredibly powerful. In a close range fight you are likely do die to your own rocket unless you jump, shoot behind the player. You can be killed by the utility weapon before you even fire the first shot. You will most likely be killed by the utility weapon if you miss your rocket before you can fire your second. Its power makes it risky at close and far range.
  2. Halo CE's sniper is one of the harder ones to use in the series yet is constantly contested by the utility weapon. For me, I much more enjoy this dynamic compared to Halo 3 that has a difficult to use sniper but a BR that can't really contest it.
  3. The plasma rifle is a great niche weapon that melts shields and is placed on the map usually by an overshield by design. It is a projectile weapon which takes a bit of skill to use and offers both a stun and freeze effect.
  4. I find the shotgun to be a fun weapon in general, and it can be countered by double melees or a 3 shot but it is, unfortunately,  a confetti cannon with a mind of its own.
  5. I think camo works great in Halo CE. It's also an incentive to drop your utility weapon for camo rockets, adding more depth to gameplay.
  6. I can see your point with overshield in other games. I think its fine in CE where its possible to kill an OS guy in one clip. Or catch a good grenade on him and clean him up.

Everything in that came can be outplayed simply by the utility weapon which in my opinion is the most skillful throughout the series. If I played Damnation with just a pistol I would never leave top green. I think other Halo games have problems with their balance so I'm not going to go game by game for each of the power weapons.

 

Again, I don't find any of the utility weapons to carry enough pure aim skill to warrant the entire game be dictated by those fights. The CE pistol is the closest contender to me. The Halo 2 BR has a ton of magnetism and is easy to use. The Halo 3 BR is ineffective and random at range but does take a bit of effort to aim properly. There a shooting gap between casuals and pros, but not at a top level. Balancing the game in a way that has very little gap between pros is not my idea of fun or depth.

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Halo games have a pretty popular playlist dedicated to using the Sniper Rifle so lots of people must find it fun.

 

Its fun because people like to get headshots, but the sniper hasn't had a big skill gap since Halo 3. Those arguments are sound.  This whole conversation has been fun but its A TON of "throwing the baby out with the bathwater".  I think its a more worthwhile exercise to go through what is bad about any particular power item.

 

Overall - The move away from static item spawns was a poor choice imo.  It really takes away from the "beat the other team to get the power items" aspect of the game. This came back for power weapons in Halo 5 and i don't hate how they are announced but i do hate that the waypoint disappears when they are picked up.  The waypoint should just flash for a few seconds then fade away, regardless of if they are picked up.  That way you can communicate to the players, especially new players, where the item is thereby lowering the skill floor a bit but without lowering the skill ceiling by giving away the enemy position when it gets picked up. Static spawn times should be used for EVERYTHING, not just power weapons, but power ups and standard weapons as well.  That way you can really guarantee,  "In any game the X will come up this many times, Y will come up this many times and Z will come up this many times" and space them out so you know that every minute or so, something is popping.

 

Sniper - Its been easy since reach, piss easy since Halo 4.  Halo 5's sniper is embarrassing with the ease of no scoping and some of the "headshots" it hands out.

Rockets - The only power weapon where i am OK with it being both easy and powerful.  I would like to see it fire more slowly though so if you do miss, you're pretty much screwed. its fired too fast for a while now (part of this is the nerfing of the utility).

Sword - Why does the sword have a zoom now? who thought that was a good idea or made any sense? Why can you lunge in Halo 2 before it is even drawn? its a joke in Halo 3 because it takes so long to pull out (tehehe).  In modern halo, the issue with the sword being sometimes OP and sometimes awkward is more a symptom of sprint than anything else.

 

I know MCC is supposed to be "The way you remember" (though its still far from that atm) but MY GOD how good would Halo 2 be with static item spawns and a sword with some draw time and Halo 3 with a non-random BR, faster BMS and static item spawns again.  I wish we could make that happen.

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I feel like I just read a few posts of yours telling people they aren't responding to your actual point. Why would you do the exact same to my post?

 

  1. Halo CE's rockets take time to travel, have a very long cooldown time in-between shots and are incredibly powerful. In a close range fight you are likely do die to your own rocket unless you jump, shoot behind the player. You can be killed by the utility weapon before you even fire the first shot. You will most likely be killed by the utility weapon if you miss your rocket before you can fire your second. Its power makes it risky at close and far range.
  2. Halo CE's sniper is one of the harder ones to use in the series yet is constantly contested by the utility weapon. For me, I much more enjoy this dynamic compared to Halo 3 that has a difficult to use sniper but a BR that can't really contest it.
  3. The plasma rifle is a great niche weapon that melts shields and is placed on the map usually by an overshield by design. It is a projectile weapon which takes a bit of skill to use and offers both a stun and freeze effect.
  4. I find the shotgun to be a fun weapon in general, and it can be countered by double melees or a 3 shot but it is, unfortunately,  a confetti cannon with a mind of its own.
  5. I think camo works great in Halo CE. It's also an incentive to drop your utility weapon for camo rockets, adding more depth to gameplay.
  6. I can see your point with overshield in other games. I think its fine in CE where its possible to kill an OS guy in one clip. Or catch a good grenade on him and clean him up.

Everything in that came can be outplayed simply by the utility weapon which in my opinion is the most skillful throughout the series. If I played Damnation with just a pistol I would never leave top green. I think other Halo games have problems with their balance so I'm not going to go game by game for each of the power weapons.

 

Again, I don't find any of the utility weapons to carry enough pure aim skill to warrant the entire game be dictated by those fights. The CE pistol is the closest contender to me. The Halo 2 BR has a ton of magnetism and is easy to use. The Halo 3 BR is ineffective and random at range but does take a bit of effort to aim properly. There a shooting gap between casuals and pros, but not at a top level. Balancing the game in a way that has very little gap between pros is not my idea of fun or depth.

1.) They're handheld nukes, lol. Cooldown won't really matter when you Hiroshima half the map to kill someone, figuratively speaking.

2.) O-kay?

3.) Okay, so you need a weapon that has a learning curve to begin to peg at a dude with a power up that grants him the ability to juice up his shields and melt you, at least once. Preeeeeeeetty dumb even if I love the PR to bits.

4.) O-kay.

5.) Whew, camo rocks. Talk about a super obnoxious combination that should just not exist, lmao. Can't see you, and you get an easy OHKO weapon. About as bad as camo rail on Fathom.

6.) To earlier, it takes one clip, assuming you don't miss much, to stop the OS dude. When he entirely has more time to just melt you right back. Especially once you betray your position and shoot at him.  I only know this by having it happen to me. Picking up OS, some dude gets two shots on me and I just whip around and melt him down. Like, whew, nice, dude. Got me good. Totally anecdotal, and I know you won't always just outright challenge an OS, but in a game where you can't even see someone HAS an OS, sometimes you make that push without knowledge.

 

Everything can hypothetically be outplayed. On paper. But go nuts fighting a dude with nukets outright. And your Damnation example also just seems to hinge on this Slayer mentality. Where you sit around and don't have a goal unless there's some dumb pickup. In which case, give Slayer or the map that sick boot. You're not just gonna be sitting around on a map when you're forced to move for an obj. 

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@@Teapot

 

I’m torn on putting power ups on static timers. On one hand, picking it up once wouldn’t give you an advantage toward picking it up the next time but on the other hand, I think there is some skill is calling out and keeping track of an “oddly timed” power up. Like if it comes up every 90 seconds and you pick it up at 5:46 then you have to do some quick math and remember that it comes up again at 4:16.

 

@@TheIcePrincess

 

You shouldn’t be challenging an OS guy one on one. Communicate with your team and bait and switch him. For somebody that complains about her teammates running forward into enemy fire every time, you seem to do something quite similar when facing an OS.

 

And about getting rid of Slayer and replacing it with objective. In Slayer, getting the power items is your objective!

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@@TheIcePrincess

 

You shouldn’t be challenging an OS guy one on one. Communicate with your team and bait and switch him. For somebody that complains about her teammates running forward into enemy fire every time, you seem to do something quite similar when facing an OS.

 

And about getting rid of Slayer and replacing it with objective. In Slayer, getting the power items is your objective!

The hell are you on about with OS, lmao. You have no idea what the fuck I do around OS because all I've been saying is hypothetical shit. 

 

And okay? Slayer's still garbage regardless. Should be out. But alas, is still in.

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What are you guys looking to play ideally then? If not octagon, then what? Onslaught?

 

How are any of the utility weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant the entire game to consist of these gunfights?

Come on man. You know how many other skills are involved in halo without the power weapons. Think of Coli CTF with nothing on it. The map is the same. The jumps are the same. You need your movement skill, map control, map presence, spacing, spawn manipulation, and decision making ability. It's all still there. It's still CTF. It doesn't make it octagon at all.

 

So what happens when there are no power weapons in play? What happens to maps when power ups are burned/jumped off. For the game just instantly become octagon and no one move? Obj games always will have movement it's how they are.

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The hell are you on about with OS, lmao. You have no idea what the fuck I do around OS because all I've been saying is hypothetical shit.

 

 

See below:

 

Overshield's just a mindless "run forward" mechanic that makes you play by running forward. One of those dumbass "you can't contest me, even if you're better than me" mechanics too, and I fucking despise that shit. I love counting four shots on an OS dude I'm juking and internally going "Yeah, I'd have murdered you in a straight up gunfight without your crutch, but alas

Why are you challenging an OS guy solo instead of backing down and calling him out to a teammate?

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That literally just sounds obnoxious, lmao. "I got a kill with this easy thing, then killed a dude who couldn't even see me, then killed a sniper with another easy thing". Which I wish was just a stretch generalization. Because none of that has to do with "skill". It's all centered around an easy pickup and another pickup that makes you literally invisible to everyone in an "ideal" comp environment. Definition of cheeseball.

 

And I don't get how, again, powerups/weapons are what make you move, not an objective or slay potential. If you were playing an obj, yunno, the only gametype that should matter, you're gonna be moving regardless of a powerup/power weapon's presence. You're not fighting for their drops, you're fighting to drop them.

I had a huge post written, and accidentally went went back when trying to delete something.

 

For your first point I feel you don't understand what I was saying. Picking up rockets isn't hard, but winning the team fight for it is hard. Picking up camo isn't hard, but winning the team fight for it, or baiting it but still securing it without a burn is hard. Flanking behind the opponent with camo is easier than a normal flank, fine. Rocketing the sniper guy, easy sure. Using the sniper to get an instant spawn kill is hard though.

 

The examples I gave was to highlight the fight for the item and effective use. Now in your second point, you suggest that fights would still happen without power ups or power weapons, meaning you don't think we need power items to have good team fights. I agree on certain maps that it works, but then we are limiting ourselves to a certain design of map. Off the top of my head, Warlock, Midship, and Midship-esque maps. So maps without many chokepoints and wide open areas where you can see large portions of the map from most positions.

 

As for effective use, I've seen you reject that as a skill when other people brought it up, so I figured you would reject it again when I suggested it.

 

Finally, if you don't see how players trying to fight for a power weapon doesn't make an objective vulnerable, and how that's interesting to play, then I don't know what to tell you. The very presence of power items makes the mental dynamic ten times more interesting and I'm happy to sacrifice a little physical skill for that.

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See below:

 

Why are you challenging an OS guy solo instead of backing down and calling him out to a teammate?

Fam, nothing there says I'm openly challenging and jumping at dudes with an OS solo. The sentence just spoke on how I hate juking someone with OS and knowing I could beat them in a straight one on one. It has nothing to do with how I got to facing them. They could've found me for all I know, lol.

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One big thing about power weapons, especially ones on static timers, is that they give structure to the game. They draw players to certain areas, at certain times, and create engagements where players fight. Without pick ups, players are just bumping into each other by chance. That is fine sometimes but there is a whole nother layer of depth when two teams are setting up for an upcoming pick up. How they do it, when they do it, how many players they commit to it, what they do with the pick up once they get it or how they counter the enemy team who got it.

 

That is the reason why Power Ups and Power weapons need to be strong, or as you say cheesebally. Because no one is going to set up for something that doesn’t give them a significant advantage.

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You say that like I'd have installed that shit in the first place, lel.

Halo 1 is the only game in the series where the strength of power ups and power weapons is low relative to the base strength of individual players. Maybe you disagree, but I find the teamwork that goes into controlling power ups and power weapons throughout a match to be extremely dynamic and interesting. It provides far more entertaining moments when someone goes off on a 5 or 10 kill spree with sniper headshots vs someone team-pistoling and getting those sprees. It doesn't take as much strategy to overcome an opponents position if everyone has the same weapon which equates to a less interesting meta in the gameplay.

 

Thanks for ignoring my entire post btw!

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1.) They're handheld nukes, lol. Cooldown won't really matter when you Hiroshima half the map to kill someone, figuratively speaking.

2.) O-kay?

3.) Okay, so you need a weapon that has a learning curve to begin to peg at a dude with a power up that grants him the ability to juice up his shields and melt you, at least once. Preeeeeeeetty dumb even if I love the PR to bits.

4.) O-kay.

5.) Whew, camo rocks. Talk about a super obnoxious combination that should just not exist, lmao. Can't see you, and you get an easy OHKO weapon. About as bad as camo rail on Fathom.

6.) To earlier, it takes one clip, assuming you don't miss much, to stop the OS dude. When he entirely has more time to just melt you right back. Especially once you betray your position and shoot at him.  I only know this by having it happen to me. Picking up OS, some dude gets two shots on me and I just whip around and melt him down. Like, whew, nice, dude. Got me good. Totally anecdotal, and I know you won't always just outright challenge an OS, but in a game where you can't even see someone HAS an OS, sometimes you make that push without knowledge.

 

Everything can hypothetically be outplayed. On paper. But go nuts fighting a dude with nukets outright. And your Damnation example also just seems to hinge on this Slayer mentality. Where you sit around and don't have a goal unless there's some dumb pickup. In which case, give Slayer or the map that sick boot. You're not just gonna be sitting around on a map when you're forced to move for an obj. 

 

I'm guessing you're just gonna not respond to my original question? Please stop calling out others than for doing the same.

 

From your counter-points, I feel like I've had an opposite experience with CE from you. I think we should first establish some sort of baseline. Is what you're proposing supposed to cater towards the competitive or the casual crowd?

 

I'm saying from plenty of experience..

 

1) The cooldown times completely matter. There are plenty of times in top tier games where the rocket doesn't kill the enemy and the enemy is able to pistol the rocket guy. More commonly is that a teammate can shoot the rocket guy before he has time to fire the second one. 

2) What's the counterpoint with an okay? Isn't the issue that power weapons are free kills and too easy to use? If so then this goes against it.

3) How hard is the learning curve to lead your shots? You can fire a rocket or shoot the halo 3 BR right? Again, I thought the issue was easy OS.

4) Shotgun isn't just a insta-kill get out of jail free card. Figured that might be a good thing to you.

5) Is camo too easy? If so, are nades not powerful enough? It's really not that hard to nade spam camo or guess where he is. Once he's made it away with it in an area you didn't see, then sure he has a big advantage. I'm in the boat where YOU fucked up by letting it happen, not the boat where I feel my pistol shot is better therefor his kill is random and skillless.

6) Is your example from Halo CE? There's plenty of times where people get 3 shotted before having time to react, so you can get a few shots off on an OS guy before he even begins to find you. If you choose to shoot him when he is not looking, near an overshield spawn at an overshield minute than I really don't know why you would do that. Even if you didn't think it was up, a nade under his feet is much better. Sure, something visible would be nice but is this something you can't anticipate?

 

I'd save the post if you aren't going to respond to these points using some actual substance behind them.

 

 

Come on man. You know how many other skills are involved in halo without the power weapons. Think of Coli CTF with nothing on it. The map is the same. The jumps are the same. You need your movement skill, map control, map presence, spacing, spawn manipulation, and decision making ability. It's all still there. It's still CTF. It doesn't make it octagon at all.

 

So what happens when there are no power weapons in play? What happens to maps when power ups are burned/jumped off. For the game just instantly become octagon and no one move? Obj games always will have movement it's how they are.

 

I just asked if you guys were looking for something more like Onslaught CTF than Octagon. I'm not sure where I'm losing you guys but I feel like all of the skills you just mentioned does exist on Onslaught. Do those skills not exist on that map? I am also asking, which utility weapon feels skillful enough on its own that we can base the entire gameplay around it?

 

Your second question depends on the map/modes/game. Are you talking about slayer or obj here? In terms of OBJ yeah there is still incentive to move unless you are the team up. Then it depends but regardless of the context I don't see an improvement in gameplay by eliminating power weapons in place of a pure utility weapon game when the utility weapon on its own isn't skillful enough to warrant it.

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I'm guessing you're just gonna not respond to my original question? Please stop calling out others than for doing the same.

 

From your counter-points, I feel like I've had an opposite experience with CE from you. I think we should first establish some sort of baseline. Is what you're proposing supposed to cater towards the competitive or the casual crowd?

 

I'm saying from plenty of experience..

 

1) The cooldown times completely matter. There are plenty of times in top tier games where the rocket doesn't kill the enemy and the enemy is able to pistol the rocket guy. More commonly is that a teammate can shoot the rocket guy before he has time to fire the second one.

2) What's the counterpoint with an okay? Isn't the issue that power weapons are free kills and too easy to use? If so then this goes against it.

3) How hard is the learning curve to lead your shots? You can fire a rocket or shoot the halo 3 BR right? Again, I thought the issue was easy OS.

4) Shotgun isn't just a insta-kill get out of jail free card. Figured that might be a good thing to you.

5) Is camo too easy? If so, are nades not powerful enough? It's really not that hard to nade spam camo or guess where he is. Once he's made it away with it in an area you didn't see, then sure he has a big advantage. I'm in the boat where YOU fucked up by letting it happen, not the boat where I feel my pistol shot is better therefor his kill is random and skillless.

6) Is your example from Halo CE? There's plenty of times where people get 3 shotted before having time to react, so you can get a few shots off on an OS guy before he even begins to find you. If you choose to shoot him when he is not looking, near an overshield spawn at an overshield minute than I really don't know why you would do that. Even if you didn't think it was up, a nade under his feet is much better. Sure, something visible would be nice but is this something you can't anticipate?

 

I'd save the post if you aren't going to respond to these points using some actual substance behind them.

 

 

 

I just asked if you guys were looking for something more like Onslaught CTF than Octagon. I'm not sure where I'm losing you guys but I feel like all of the skills you just mentioned does exist on Onslaught. Do those skills not exist on that map? I am also asking, which utility weapon feels skillful enough on its own that we can base the entire gameplay around it?

 

Your second question depends on the map/modes/game. Are you talking about slayer or obj here? In terms of OBJ yeah there is still incentive to move unless you are the team up. Then it depends but regardless of the context I don't see an improvement in gameplay by eliminating power weapons in place of a pure utility weapon game when the utility weapon on its own isn't skillful enough to warrant it.

Nothing I'm saying is about slayer. I don't like slayer regardless of anything that can be done to it. Slayer maps are definitely much harder to force movement on and need a lot more attention to detail. And yes onslaught does require those skills. But you're purposely picking the simplest ctf map of all time and it makes it look like you're trying to say "that's what you want basic hold forward maps". I believe every ctf map would play fine without any added power weapons because the gametype itself promotes movement and has easy spawn manipulation that allows aggressive play to be rewarded. And the team losing will always have to move because they are losing. The won't have to completely shut down and wait sanc Slayer style (where both teams just end up sitting still for minutes at a time).

 

As far as skillful utility I think H3 level aim assist on a gun like the h5 magnum would be plenty skillful. He'll H5 alone I think has some of the most skillful weapon combat with all the movement and shit. Granted I do want some form of extra movement in the game to allow for more movement depth to compliment the shooting skill. And I'm not opposed to good additions to the sandbox but I would want it to be guns that aren't just power weapons. I think a game focused on a skillful utility and a movement skill gap could play wonderfully in straight obj modes with slayer used just as a social warm-up.

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Nothing I'm saying is about slayer. I don't like slayer regardless of anything that can be done to it. Slayer maps are definitely much harder to force movement on and need a lot more attention to detail. And yes onslaught does require those skills. But you're purposely picking the simplest ctf map of all time and it makes it look like you're trying to say "that's what you want basic hold forward maps". I believe every ctf map would play fine without any added power weapons because the gametype itself promotes movement and has easy spawn manipulation that allows aggressive play to be rewarded. And the team losing will always have to move because they are losing. The won't have to completely shut down and wait sanc Slayer style (where both teams just end up sitting still for minutes at a time).

 

As far as skillful utility I think H3 level aim assist on a gun like the h5 magnum would be plenty skillful. He'll H5 alone I think has some of the most skillful weapon combat with all the movement and shit. Granted I do want some form of extra movement in the game to allow for more movement depth to compliment the shooting skill. And I'm not opposed to good additions to the sandbox but I would want it to be guns that aren't just power weapons. I think a game focused on a skillful utility and a movement skill gap could play wonderfully in straight obj modes with slayer used just as a social warm-up.

 

I mean this is a good response and kinda what I'm looking for when asking you guys about this. I think the hold forward meta is honestly there is most Halo 3 maps but I picked onslaught because it only has a mauler on it and is primarily all BR focused. Heretic is next but has a shotgun and sword. For Halo 2 we're looking at Warlock and Midship but they also had some power weapons too. To me, it was just the closest example but also depends on the map layout. Controlling spawns was incredibly easy in H3 with the nade weight so the map itself was simple.

 

For a utility weapon, I would love to try that. I never played Halo Online but wonder if any of those weapons actually felt good or like that. I love the H5 pistol and enjoy the movement and combat in general. It was really refreshing to me even though I understand a lot of people dislike it. What are some good additions to the sandbox? Gonna assume Rockets and Sniper are out, or the sniper is reworked? I assume niche weapons like PR or Shotty is good, or something like the reach grenade launcher?

This is unrelated but would you rather have a larger amount of mid tier weapons? Picture Halo 5's redundancy but with pretty much no top tier power weapons? Or would you have a smaller sandbox that had a bigger gap in its power/niche?

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I mean this is a good response and kinda what I'm looking for when asking you guys about this. I think the hold forward meta is honestly there is most Halo 3 maps but I picked onslaught because it only has a mauler on it and is primarily all BR focused. Heretic is next but has a shotgun and sword. For Halo 2 we're looking at Warlock and Midship but they also had some power weapons too. To me, it was just the closest example but also depends on the map layout. Controlling spawns was incredibly easy in H3 with the nade weight so the map itself was simple.

 

For a utility weapon, I would love to try that. I never played Halo Online but wonder if any of those weapons actually felt good or like that. I love the H5 pistol and enjoy the movement and combat in general. It was really refreshing to me even though I understand a lot of people dislike it. What are some good additions to the sandbox? Gonna assume Rockets and Sniper are out, or the sniper is reworked? I assume niche weapons like PR or Shotty is good, or something like the reach grenade launcher?

This is unrelated but would you rather have a larger amount of mid tier weapons? Picture Halo 5's redundancy but with pretty much no top tier power weapons? Or would you have a smaller sandbox that had a bigger gap in its power/niche?

Snipe is fine if they actually make it difficult. Nade launcher could replace rockets since its a more skillful version of that weapon anyway. Niche weapons are what I would prefer be in the place of power weapons. Like having those weapons in normal power weapon spots seems like it would work fine. And it's not really how many weapons total there are that annoys me it's more so how many are on each individual map. All the maps you are maps I've always enjoyed. Even midship with the H2 sword. Because it was one weapon on the entire map. Of those 2 options I would definitely prefer the smallest sandbox that also offered a diverse option. Honestly aside from rockets and power ups CE has a damn good weapon set to me. You have a weapon for basically every range but there aren't so many that their effective ranges are too close together. I hate the cod balance approach of "this weapon dominates this 5 foot area but this one dominates in this 5 foot area". I also tend to prefer additions to the game that aren't just straight killing tools. Things like the made launcher and PR don't just straight murder you, they allow you to play a certain way to make it easier for you to win engagements.

 

Of course spawn times and ammo would have to be played around with but overall a few niche weapons per map would be my go to. Again, speaking in terms of obj maps where movement is already forced.

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