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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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So this is what the Halo community has come to now? People are actually arguing for the removal of power weapons. Sometimes I wonder why I even stick around. Then again, I made it through the "AR takes skill" debates, so I figure I can make it through this.

I think it’s just one chick who likes attention and some thirsty dude who will agree with whatever she says.

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YOOOOOOOOOOOO LMAO

Do you actually believe that maps would play better without power ups or power weapons to periodically encourage player movement?

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Do you actually believe that maps would play better without power ups or power weapons that periodically encourage player movement?

dude yes I've said it like 9 times. Obviously some maps are shit and suck without incentives but that just means we need better maps. And slayer sucks anyway so I don't really care.

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dude yes I've said it like 9 times. Obviously some maps are shit and suck without incentives but that just means we need better maps. And slayer sucks anyway so I don't really care.

Apparently just about every Halo map sucks then.

 

And power items are just as, if not more, important in objective than Slayer.

 

Can you give me some reasoning behind why maps would play better without power ups and power weapons so I can understand your position better?

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With all due respect - I couldn't disagree more with you.

 

Halo has always been a franchise that is a game so many - of all ages - have grown to love for their own reasons.  Many of those reasons cross over between each other (competitive, grifball, infection, BTB, race, forge, warzone, etc.)  It's a franchise I can play trying to be my best, but can also party up with friends while drinking and have a fucking blast swinging a hammer!

 

Apparently it's national video game day (lame, but whatever) and I heard this news story on the way in to work.  Top 10 favorite voted on franchises.  Outside of the obvious platform exclusive Nintendo owns (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon,) the only other exclusive on the list is Halo.

 

To me that speaks volumes to how important a casual community is to this franchise.  People know the game, they love it just like you and everyone else on this forum.  And i'm happy we all have a chance to play it, in whatever capacity they want.

 

https://big979.iheart.com/content/2018-09-12-its-national-video-games-day/

 

You obviously didn't comprehend what I wrote.

 

Guess what? I was once a casual Halo player too.

 

I used to watch Halo trick videos. Me and my brother spent half a day getting a Warthog to the very bottom of the map in The Silent Cartographer. We used to play 1v1 on Blood Gulch.

 

Everyone on this forum was once a noob.

 

Want to know the difference between us and /r/halo though? We don't try to debate that SMG's are a better starting weapon. We don't down vote someone when they offer constructive criticism. We don't immediately get out our pitch forks when someone says something negative about Bungie or 343. These people are like an army of paid shills. It's insane to see people foaming at the mouth in defence of a corporation.

 

I don't give a shit if someone plays BTB all day. You think I care? Fuck no. What I care about is that same BTB player telling Bungie that they shouldn't make Team Slayer BR starts purely because they don't like MLG players without giving ONE SINGLE FUCKING LOGICAL REASON why the SMG is a better starting weapon. Their arguments are literally "no, I don't like the BR".

 

THIS is why I hate the casual community. Not because they don't take the game seriously, that would be stupid. I hate them because they insist on shoving their opinions where it doesn't belong. They SHOULD NOT be dictating game balance when they don't even have a concept of what game balance is. Asking them for advice on how to balance the game is like asking your plumber about open heart surgery when you have a freakin' heart surgeon in the same damn room as you.

 

MLG had to fix up movement speed in MLG settings. That's not something they should have had to do. What should have been done, is that competitive Halo players should have said "Bungie, the game feels slow as fuck, can we please make it so our super solider spartans don't move at a snails pace" and the casual community should have gotten behind this and said "yeah, these guys obviously know what they're talking about, how about we just make that the default".

 

But no, instead, every time I play Halo 3 I'm stuck with speed so fucking slow you could be forgiven for thinking I'm playing Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon.

 

Same thing with drop spawns. Bungie could have easily just fixed the spawns so they weren't so stupid and broken. Instead Forgers had to screw around with glitches. WHY!?!?! This is something Bungie could have fixed in a day if the casual community had given 2 shits. We know Bungie listens to the casual crowd, that's why they got Grifball. Meanwhile the competitive community was literally holding tournaments with MILLIONS in prize money and we had to beg and plead for years just to get an MLG playlist with decent settings.

 

Guess what? I hate BTB in Halo 5. Why? Because the maps suck. I've frequently argued that Halo 5 deserved REAL BTB maps and not Forge crap, despite the fact I'm a competitive gamer at heart and even if Halo 5 did have good BTB I'd barely ever play them. Would be nice if the casual community could get on our side once in a while.

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I'm sorry WHAT? Dude removing power weapons isn't to make the game focused only on gunskill. It's to remove the piss easy free kill weapons that are boring. It's nit trying to be ANYTHING like octagon. I guess removing power weapons somehow gets rid of movement skill, map control, spawn awareness and control, ALL positioning skill the list goes onnnnnn. Lmao somehow wanting the main focus to be even fights takes ALL that out of the game I guess. So halo is braindead 2 minutes at a time when power weapons aren't in play. Got it.

It's hyperbole of course, but nowhere near as asinine of a statement as saying shit like "if that guy didn't get 8 rocket kills he would've gone 6-6" or saying that nades, melees and all power items need to be removed from Halo. Saying BTB would be better if all vehicles were removed is just the cherry on top lmao. As I said, there are certainly balance issues with all these elements, but just completely removing everything but the Mangum from the game is about as sane of an opinion as making Octagon 1v1s the only ranked playlist. It's all just black and white for you two.

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Apparently just about every Halo map sucks then.

 

And power items are just as, if not more, important in objective than Slayer.

 

Can you give me some reasoning behind why maps would play better without power ups and power weapons so I can understand your position better?

Uh most halo maps have the incentives fine. In obj games movement has never been an issue, and never will be even without power weapons. Because the objective forces movement. We don't need power weapons too. Maps that NEED power weapons in slayer and usually maps I don't care for anyways. They're usually awkwardly segmented and big.

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Uh most halo maps have the incentives fine. In obj games movement has never been an issue, and never will be even without power weapons. Because the objective forces movement. We don't need power weapons too. Maps that NEED power weapons in slayer and usually maps I don't care for anyways. They're usually awkwardly segmented and big.

But movement would be an issue in objective games without power items. A team with the lead would have no reason to push and the losing team would have no assistance breaking their defensive setup.

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Just played a kid who got this on the enemy team, led his team in kills, went 16/6. He got a snipe and sword kill too, rounding out his kill total to 10 power weapon kills, and 4 BR kills, with a nade and a melee making up the two others. This fucking kid only had a fourth of his kills being the game's fucking utility. In a game where the utility actually works. H2A. This kid didn't get into ANY actual gunfights, and won the game like this. And if you remove his power weapon kills, only went 6/6. You can't actually tell me this shit is okay, and how Halo should work.

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How is what you're doing any different than the classic blame the game instead of yourself? When you pick up a rocket launcher, do you always get at least one kill with every rocket, or do some teams pick you off because keeping you from having rockets is important enough to organize their play around? I've played in competitive H2 customs on midship where a guy gets over 15 sword kills in a flag game. Do I want the sword removed? No, I think a battery that drains would balance it better. Obviously we're aware that shotguns are on the map, but in very intense team games they can become irrelevant (even on LAN) or impossible to get to.

 

And H1 without power ups or power weapons? Lol just uninstall the game at that point.

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Uh most halo maps have the incentives fine. In obj games movement has never been an issue, and never will be even without power weapons. Because the objective forces movement. We don't need power weapons too. Maps that NEED power weapons in slayer and usually maps I don't care for anyways. They're usually awkwardly segmented and big.

 

I still didn't get an answer from either of you regarding 1v1 and 2v2.

 

Are we gonna play 1v1 Oddball and 2v2 CTF just so we can remove power weapons off the maps?

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But movement would be an issue in objective games without power items. A team with the lead would have no reason to push and the losing team would have no assistance breaking their defensive setup.

As Nick has already told you turtling is PROVEN to not be an effective strategy to winning. It would be the same thing as the team winning and slayer not pushing for power weapons cuz they already have the lead. Sure you could do it but it's not an effective strategy and you're probably gonna lose. The objectives literally force movement on their own.

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I still didn't get an answer from either of you regarding 1v1 and 2v2.

 

Are we gonna play 1v1 Oddball and 2v2 CTF just so we can remove power weapons off the maps?

I don't care about 1v1 or 2v2 man relax. And yea 1v1 definitely shouldn't have power weapons or power ups lmao it's horrible with them. and yea I still prefer no power weapon 2v2 you just need maps that aren't as far and have established power positions to fight over.

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As Nick has already told you turtling is PROVEN to not be an effective strategy to winning. It would be the same thing as the team winning and slayer not pushing for power weapons cuz they already have the lead. Sure you could do it but it's not an effective strategy and you're probably gonna lose. The objectives literally force movement on their own.

Pushing for power items is different than pushing for a flag though. You do the former not only to secure them for yourself but to also keep them out of your enemies’ hands. A winning team has much less reason to move when they don’t have to worry about the enemy gaining advantages that can be used against them. Do you disagree with this?

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Hypothetical Halo w/o contestable items. Incoming wall of text.

 

For this version of Halo to exist, there would need to be changes. The utility weapon would need to be strong, and hard to use. Maps would have to be much more unique in their design to keep players from getting bored of stagnant setups. Grenades, ammo caches, and med-kits (Because recharging health is dumb) would need to be placed in ways that more strongly suggest movement. Skill jumps and strafe would need to be more important. Game Modes would need removal, fixing, or updating.

 

Let's start with the utility.

 

I would personally prefer an updated version of the Evolved Magnum (4 shot kill to the head.) Its aim assist and magnetism would be tweaked. Its sound design would be more in line with CE and Halo 3's. Its look would be similar to Halo Reach's Magnum. m6b___halo_reach_magnum_by_chief_01-d30j

 

This version looks the cleanest and the beefiest out of all the different variants of the gun. Its strength and sound in Reach didn't go well with how wide and strong it looked. maxresdefault.jpg

 

Imagine having that weapon in your hands, with twelve shots in the magazine, and also having it sound like the CE/H3 variants. That's my ideal utility.

 

Slayer would outright no longer exist, but be completely replaced with Strongholds. Holding down three different locations on a map is already a good incentive to move, and collecting grenades, ammo and health would keep players from locking down and camping. Capture the Flag and Assault are already staple gametypes, but what if we also had the one sided versions tweaked as well? In One Flag or One Bomb, one team has six minutes to cap/detonate as many times as they can, and the round restarts with spawns switched. Oddball and King of the Hill wouldn't need to be altered at all. That makes a total of seven modes, each with their own unique playing methods.

 

Imagine this new version of Halo being played on all of the competitive maps in Halo history. People would still move regardless of there being no contestable items, because of the objectives themselves. Positioning and Skill would still be a strong part of the game, but now there is a third category that makes games have even less of a chance of slowing down: Resource Management. Your ammo, health, and grenades will eventually run low, so you'll have to eventually move to grab spoils from dead players and locations where med-kits and grenades respawn. So the cycle of movement will essentially never end because you have to focus on both the objective and your own pool of personal items.

 

This certainly sounds like a much different Halo from what we know today, but you have to remember that the most popular competitive games in the world have their own special method of Positioning, Skill, and Resource Management. Halo as it is now only has two of those things, with Resource Management being replaced with Resource Attainment. You're not worried about ammunition (or health) because you're contesting powerful, easy, items that will unarguably create a scenario where one team has the capacity to collapse on the other. And this is because they obtained something that makes their life easier, not because they made sure they kept their stack full.

 

Halo began with the idea of only having two guns at a time, grenades, melee, and contestable items. But what if it was about having one trusty Magnum, two grenades, and the goal of winning the objective with nothing but your wit and talent?

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Snip

 

Thanks for the reply - and I do understand what you're grip is about.  And to be honestly I agree for the most part.

 

But I don't necessarily blame the "casual" player, I blame Bungie and 343 for not understanding the value and knowledge the competitive player and community has to the health of the total game/franchise.  

 

I do think the game is better with the improvements MLG made back then, and suggestions MANY on this website have suggested for current and future states of the game.  But I also don't put the onus on a casual player - who might play 5 hrs a week to follow why it's better for the franchise - I put the onus on 343 to actually listen, test and believe that the competitive community know a thing or two.

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If you manage to get a power weapon(s) and successfully avoid any risky encounters, and make advantageous use of those weapons without overextending and giving them up then you're just flat out playing better than your opponents.

 

Not getting into risky encounters or always making sure that, as a team, you've got a way to at least break even on them (in terms of overall game resources including space/zoning) is optimum play. Even if you only have 1 weapon in the game, you want to make plays where the risk is lower than the reward a majority of the time anyway (exceptions being when you can afford to absorb the risk or it has to be taken in order to swing a comeback etc).

 

Power weapons are important not just for encouraging movement, but also for magnifying the significance of certain plays in order to push the game's "story" forward.

While you possibly lose in mechanical skill required you make a bigger gain in complexity, depth, and extend the parameters of development for players' game sense & communication. Even more so if it's like H1 where there are valid incentives for dropping your utility weapon, which will drastically change how you have to move around the map and your capabilities as a player for a period of time, thus changing the risk:reward assessments you need to be making at the time.

 

It's all basically a probability numbers game at the end of the day.

 

EDIT:

Also, Halo without power weapons would be boring as hell to watch. That's been one of the wider community's gripes about competitive settings since H3 MLG, really. Taking some essentially harmless or downright interesting weapons out in an all consuming desire to improve sandbox efficiency was well intended, but also makes the experience feel a lot more sterile and risks losing out on some great community moments like Walshy clowning on Twith a pair of Needlers in H2. And the Brute Shot deserved better.

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But movement would be an issue in objective games without power items. A team with the lead would have no reason to push and the losing team would have no assistance breaking their defensive setup.

 

This is the easiest way to lose a flag game you're winning.

 

As Nick has already told you turtling is PROVEN to not be an effective strategy to winning. It would be the same thing as the team winning and slayer not pushing for power weapons cuz they already have the lead. Sure you could do it but it's not an effective strategy and you're probably gonna lose. The objectives literally force movement on their own.

At this point I agree to disagree with you on whether or not power ups/weapons should be on map. I think they make the game flow differently, encourage risk/reward gameplay better, but they need to be appropriately difficult. H5 snipe can take a hike, but H3 or CE snipe in H5? Hitting doubles would be difficult and rewarding. Just how I see things. 

 

I also think Slayer as a competitive gametype outside of CE 2v2s is a joke and a half. 

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Hypothetical Halo w/o contestable items. Incoming wall of text.

 

For this version of Halo to exist, there would need to be changes. The utility weapon would need to be strong, and hard to use. Maps would have to be much more unique in their design to keep players from getting bored of stagnant setups. Grenades, ammo caches, and med-kits (Because recharging health is dumb) would need to be placed in ways that more strongly suggest movement. Skill jumps and strafe would need to be more important. Game Modes would need removal, fixing, or updating.

 

Let's start with the utility.

 

I would personally prefer an updated version of the Evolved Magnum (4 shot kill to the head.) Its aim assist and magnetism would be tweaked. Its sound design would be more in line with CE and Halo 3's. Its look would be similar to Halo Reach's Magnum. m6b___halo_reach_magnum_by_chief_01-d30j

 

This version looks the cleanest and the beefiest out of all the different variants of the gun. Its strength and sound in Reach didn't go well with how wide and strong it looked. maxresdefault.jpg

 

Imagine having that weapon in your hands, with twelve shots in the magazine, and also having it sound like the CE/H3 variants. That's my ideal utility.

 

Slayer would outright no longer exist, but be completely replaced with Strongholds. Holding down three different locations on a map is already a good incentive to move, and collecting grenades, ammo and health would keep players from locking down and camping. Capture the Flag and Assault are already staple gametypes, but what if we also had the one sided versions tweaked as well? In One Flag or One Bomb, one team has six minutes to cap/detonate as many times as they can, and the round restarts with spawns switched. Oddball and King of the Hill wouldn't need to be altered at all. That makes a total of seven modes, each with their own unique playing methods.

 

Imagine this new version of Halo being played on all of the competitive maps in Halo history. People would still move regardless of there being no contestable items, because of the objectives themselves. Positioning and Skill would still be a strong part of the game, but now there is a third category that makes games have even less of a chance of slowing down: Resource Management. Your ammo, health, and grenades will eventually run low, so you'll have to eventually move to grab spoils from dead players and locations where med-kits and grenades respawn. So the cycle of movement will essentially never end because you have to focus on both the objective and your own pool of personal items.

 

This certainly sounds like a much different Halo from what we know today, but you have to remember that the most popular competitive games in the world have their own special method of Positioning, Skill, and Resource Management. Halo as it is now only has two of those things, with Resource Management being replaced with Resource Attainment. You're not worried about ammunition (or health) because you're contesting powerful, easy, items that will unarguably create a scenario where one team has the capacity to collapse on the other. And this is because they obtained something that makes their life easier, not because they made sure they kept their stack full.

 

Halo began with the idea of only having two guns at a time, grenades, melee, and contestable items. But what if it was about having one trusty Magnum, two grenades, and the goal of winning the objective with nothing but your wit and talent?

 

 

 

I certainly don't want halo to turn into this.  But this concept does sound like a game that i would play and enjoy.

 

 

 

This is the easiest way to lose a flag game you're winning.

 

I also think Slayer as a competitive gametype outside of CE 2v2s is a joke and a half.

 

I'll disagree a bit.  At a high level, getting the first cap then just waiting it out would be a terrible idea, power up and power weapons on the map or not.  But I think that probably all the way up to high 40's in rank, rushing first cap then squatting would be a viable strategy if there were no other items on the map.

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I can't imagine how boring Halo would be with the items gone. Even as much as I love the shooting mechanics and skill in CE, I can't imagine a game where that is the only emphasis regardless of maps. I'm fine allowing one map to break up the flow and put some emphasis on team shot like Midship. Even that right there is a good example compared to Onslaught which I think is a terrible example. Somehow "competitive" people loved that map despite it being the easiest meta in all of Halo. It was purely about pushing forward, BRs only and nading whichever spawn you didn't want them to spawn at. I guess maybe it allowed people to play on auto-pilot where they didn't have to think, they just had to shoot. I definitely can't relate to that mindset in a competitive mode.

 

 

Turtling generally means playing defensive. I don't exactly know if that requires you to be in the back of your base, but in Sanctuary Halo 2, if we were up 2-0 we would control ring 2 and not really push any further. You're playing for map position at that point and not the last flag cap. It's much easier to press them in their base for 5 minutes than it is to make an aggressive push. Elongation was also very defensive once you got the lead, and yes, that was on the MLG circuit. Usually, you could blame the weapon respawn system for the standoffs but not on Elongation.

 

I don't know why we aren't treating these powerups as mini-objectives. Getting rockets could help you secure the flag. Are people actually avoiding these because they feel too easy or cheap?

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This is the easiest way to lose a flag game you're winning.

 

At this point I agree to disagree with you on whether or not power ups/weapons should be on map. I think they make the game flow differently, encourage risk/reward gameplay better, but they need to be appropriately difficult. H5 snipe can take a hike, but H3 or CE snipe in H5? Hitting doubles would be difficult and rewarding. Just how I see things.

 

I also think Slayer as a competitive gametype outside of CE 2v2s is a joke and a half.

Yea I get what power weapons add. And I have no problem with people that like it. I just personally prefer the way the game plays without it. I understand what is lost. And yea it doesn't help that power weapons have blown dick the past decade. H5 snipe, h2 sword so many of them are just plain free kills.

 

And of course, slayer has been ATROCIOUS especially compared to other gametypes forever now. That sure doesn't help anything lmao

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What a completely ridiculous statement.

 

How can you possibly make the assumption that he'd only go 6/6 without power weapons

No, what's ridiculous is to say he'd have decimated the enemy team without power weapons when we would've had the lead without them, in a game that didn't go without them, lmao. If I'm questioned for making the "assumption" he'd have gone 6/6 without them, it's stupid on the opposite end to say they would've still won and that power weapon use did nothing but "end the suffering" faster, especially given you can break the game down and see we had a lead without them.

 

Gunskill alone winning games is stupid. Getting power weapons requires gunskill and knowledge. Thats why we have them. To increase the skillgap. Losing to rockets doenst mean u lost to someone with less skill. Its just you got outmatched. Your gunskill is level 100 and his is level 80 but your analytical skill is a 20 and hes an 80 (figuratively). Aka hes more skilled than yoi, at least in that game.

 

I get it, you dont find satisfaction in getting rocket kills. You like "out br-ing people" (which btw is just first shot wins at the highest level). But you know whats more satisfying? Killing rocket guy just before he grabs camo. Its not a 2 kill swing like a br on br kill but potentially an 8 kill swing. Then you have the fear of them doing the same to you. It makes the game exciting as well as adds depth/increases the skill gap

Towards power weapons, "getting" them requires a small baseline of skill, but apparently timing power weapons isn't much of a skill, given people consider H5's weapon pad timing to be QoL, when weirdly, I had that argument too, years ago. Timing isn't much a skill, and knowing where they are requires you to play the map once. So, basically, play the game once give or take a minute or two from respawn time, and you have that knowledge, and are on equal footing. 

 

Now, put a rocket in someone's hand and have them kill someone else. If that person being killed has level 100 gunskill, and you don't, but you happened to get rockets which are an easy OHKO, why in the hell should you have been given a kill in crutch form? This is the entire crux behind my argument. Why in any fucking world should maxed out gunskill (In this hypothetical) NOT be the determining factor, but INSTEAD, easy to use power weapons are, or can be. Seriously, in what world is that entirely fine and justified?

 

And WHEW, what a poor generalization of actual high level gameplay, lol. As if reversals and come backs don't exist. Just ridiculous. 

 

Also vehicles are hard to use in halo, they have a lot of skill involved.

 

Yes any joe can go 2:1 in the banshee. It takes a real pro to go 30:1 on valhalla dealing with 8 competent people who have Ars, stickies, power drains, missile pods. its hard to lead the turret and if ur close enough you dont have to lead then u can die to two ars.

 

I was a 50 in btb/squad for h3. Well 47-50. There were only a handful of people that we would worry about getting a banshee. And if they werent in the game the banshee was a non factor most of the game.

 

And that goes for all the vehicles minus the warthog in halo3. The driver is the one with the most skill for the warthog. Being able to put the most dps as possible and push the vehicle to its limit is what took skill. And also taking them down took skill and coordination with a little bit of luck.

 

Guess the same could be said with power weapons and ups in halo except generally you can win 1v1 vs rockets/snipe (disregarding having spartan laser).

 

See, you didn't really answer my question, you just provided a steamrolling example. The fact people can go 50:1 isn't a testament to a vehicle's skill, nor is the fact people can take them down if they all hyper focus on it (Given, yunno, this never happens in a game where the team consists of 7 other people on top of this vehicle, which we conveniently ignore.) Someone can go 50:1 with Halo 2's sniper, or Halo 4's Beam Rifle, or any set of rockets, it doesn't mean they require skill to use. It just means that as you climb that ladder of skill, they just become easier and easier for the user. The actual mechanics of using a vehicle aren't hard. At all. My point. Casual players can easily jump in a Ghost and spray down someone caught in the open, just as much as a good player can. You know, the majority of the map the vehicle's designed around. My point behind that the best "nerf" to vehicles was their health, as per Halo 4, which stopped BTB games from relying on them and instead, being actual "big team battles" on a map. Because you as a user could realistically shoot a Banshee down over relying on teamshot. Or even launch Halo 5, which, with its easy BR actually gave you the power to stop vehicle rushes since you could easily peg people out of their vehicles. Not the best solution, but ten times better than the current vehicle steamrolls, now.

 

I also love this idea in the end that you can somehow win a 1v1 versing rockets, or a sniper. A sniper realistically can be potentially killed with their pants down, but you go tussle with that rocket dude, and tell me how it goes, lol. Have fun, my man.

 

It's hyperbole of course, but nowhere near as asinine of a statement as saying shit like "if that guy didn't get 8 rocket kills he would've gone 6-6" or saying that nades, melees and all power items need to be removed from Halo. Saying BTB would be better if all vehicles were removed is just the cherry on top lmao. As I said, there are certainly balance issues with all these elements, but just completely removing everything but the Mangum from the game is about as sane of an opinion as making Octagon 1v1s the only ranked playlist. It's all just black and white for you two.

Yet neither of us advocated for octagons, lol. Because removing everything but your utility doesn't just make the game an octagon. So, no, it's not black and white in any way but removing easy ass mechanics in favor of actually shooting your gun, whereas generalizing the game's formula into the former statement is ironically black and white. My entire point behind the former post not so much being he'd have gone 6/6 without power weapons, BUT that the game literally ended up boiling into power weapons that are easy as fuck over an actual set of gunfights determining an outcome.

 

And H1 without power ups or power weapons? Lol just uninstall the game at that point.

 

You say that like I'd have installed that shit in the first place, lel.

 

I think it’s just one chick who likes attention and some thirsty dude who will agree with whatever she says.

When you resort to this, you know you've lost all argumentative integrity. By a long shot, lmao. Personally, while I don't care if you agree or disagree, (nothing's gonna change in game, and I'm not bent on convincing you) this is just such a hilarious stretch over the idea two people share a minority opinion. If I wanted attention, I'd be making controversial posts all the time, and yunno, in general be asking for it. I wouldn't occasionally spout shit people disagree with which ends up being forgotten in six hours, with no tangible or lasting effect. Completely counters the idea it's for attention, when it does nothing for me, assuming I wanted it.

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I think it’s just one chick who likes attention and some thirsty dude who will agree with whatever she says.

Just saw this and lmao. It's impossible they just have similar views on a topic

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Timing a power weapon isn’t where the skill is involved. Using your positioning and gun skill to beat the enemy who is also preparing to grab it is.

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What are you guys looking to play ideally then? If not octagon, then what? Onslaught?

 

How are any of the utility weapons skillful or fun enough to warrant the entire game to consist of these gunfights? 

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