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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Just played a kid who got this on the enemy team, led his team in kills, went 16/6. He got a snipe and sword kill too, rounding out his kill total to 10 power weapon kills, and 4 BR kills, with a nade and a melee making up the two others. This fucking kid only had a fourth of his kills being the game's fucking utility. In a game where the utility actually works. H2A. This kid didn't get into ANY actual gunfights, and won the game like this. And if you remove his power weapon kills, only went 6/6. You can't actually tell me this shit is okay, and how Halo should work.

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Maybe you should get power weapon control so that he can't fucking have it then.

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And I even spoke on how you did a lot, which is where I get fucking befuddled that you could be so off on a topic pertaining to movement in a game.

 

The fastest route to the flag on Truth is a thrust slide bottom mid. It gets you from base to base in about 2 seconds when done right. It's also one of the easiest ways to get yourself killed, because you not only expose yourself to people in a power position ABOVE you, but you're zooming into the enemy's spawn. And having them above you. Consistently. Sitting basement is a good strategy to move spawns and to lay a distraction, but by no means a consistent or foolproof one, despite being the quickest way to get to the flag. Big wrongo there.

 

 

You bring up one location, from one map from one game.

 

On a map like The Pit, without power weapons huge sections of the map would be completely ignored.

 

It's pretty clear that players aren't going to get in line and do a congo line straight through the centre of the map. That's clearly not what I meant.

 

We already see this on plenty of maps.

 

When has a player ever deliberately gone into green room on Lockout? The only time players are down there is if they have to drop to escape a player. Not even the shotgun is enough incentive for players to waste their time down there.

 

How about rocket spawn or OS spawn on Damnation? Without those power ups you might as well just delete those entire sections of the map.

 

HeH without camo? Literally just delete anything that's not blue base and red base cuz players sure as shit aren't going to grid unless they spawn there.

 

 

Just played a kid who got this on the enemy team, led his team in kills, went 16/6. He got a snipe and sword kill too, rounding out his kill total to 10 power weapon kills, and 4 BR kills, with a nade and a melee making up the two others. This fucking kid only had a fourth of his kills being the game's fucking utility. In a game where the utility actually works. H2A. This kid didn't get into ANY actual gunfights, and won the game like this. And if you remove his power weapon kills, only went 6/6. You can't actually tell me this shit is okay, and how Halo should work.

GySz11M.png

 

lol, what playlist was this in and what map?

 

Sounds like this player was really good at controlling the map.

 

Some communication with team mates might have been able to shut him down. ;)

 

I'm guessing idiots just ran into his rockets like lemmings.

 

I've played a lot of Halo 2 in my time and the only time you saw this sort of stuff was some guy going on a rampage with a sword on Midship FFA with SMG starts.

 

I could bring up over 9000 games where 90% of kills in a game come from the BR. This doesn't really prove anything. Show me an MLG game where this happens. In the vast majority of cases most kills will come from BR's and maybe in some cases a sniper might have the most kills.

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Maybe you guys should have killed him and took the power weapons for yourself, since that's what Halo multiplayer is. That's like going into BTB and getting mad that people are using the vehicles.

That thought never crossed my mind as I had my snipers stolen from my side, while I spawned in poor positions that only favored rocket hailing, and other places that I couldn't contest because of easy sniper rifles being a thing. Hmm. You know what, I'll go toe to toe with rockets next time. And enter a sniper's LoS on their turf. Maybe that'll do me better since I didn't at all do it this time in an effort to actually gain some control. Not like they spawned red and had access to everything, lmao.

 

And do you think I don't get annoyed at that? Lel. Vehicles are their own shade of shit. Kids who rely on them are just as bad, and vehicles should be returned to paper status, ala Halo 4.

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That's like going into BTB and getting mad that people are using the vehicles.

You might think this is a ridiculous example, but that's literally her thoughts on BTB in a nutshell lmao.

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Him having that many rocket kills doesn't actually say anything bad about him or Halo. It does however mean you utterly failed at controlling the map.

 

I'd like to see this game myself and look at his other games. A player this good at controlling the map probably would have decimated the other team without any power weapons.

 

Chances are his use of power weapons just ended the suffering of the other team lol.

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And do you think I don't get annoyed at that? Lel. Vehicles are their own shade of shit. Kids who rely on them are just as bad, and vehicles should be returned to paper status, ala Halo 4.

 

You have bad opinions. Vehicles in Halo 4 and Halo 5 are shit, and its BTB, its supposed to be a god damn playground for vehicles. Having shit vehicles defeats the entire point of BTB. 

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lol, what playlist was this in and what map?

 

Sounds like this player was really good at controlling the map.

Some communication with team mates might have been able to shut him down. Beyond%20Wink.png

I'm guessing idiots just ran into his rockets like lemmings.

 

I've played a lot of Halo 2 in my time and the only time you saw this sort of stuff was some guy going on a rampage with a sword on Midship FFA with SMG starts.

 

I could bring up over 9000 games where 90% of kills in a game come from the BR. This doesn't really prove anything. Show me an MLG game where this happens. In the vast majority of cases most kills will come from BR's and maybe in some cases a sniper might have the most kills.

The argument isn't that it's constant (Barring a more tongue in cheek statement), but that it can happen, and when it does, it's a solid snowball. With a rock embedded in it. Which could be eliminated, pretty easily, in favor of actual gunskill. And as I said. H2A. Map was Stonetown/Zanzibar. Shit map on its own, but, teehee.

A player this good at controlling the map probably would have decimated the other team without any power weapons.

 

Chances are his use of power weapons just ended the suffering of the other team lol.

I find this hilarious.  "Would've decimated the other team without power weapons". Unless this is rhetorical and a general statement, it's bullshit. If you removed his power weapon kills for that game, he'd have gone 6/6. He wouldn't have decimated the other team, at all. Dunno where that comes from. If you were to entirely remove power weapons and the kills gained from them, red team would've gotten 33 kills, and blue team, mine, had 36. You actually have to be nuts if you think a lead on our part would've led to decimation without power weapons, lol. We could've traded the game away for a win. But teehee, power weapons come in to say the daaaay.

You have bad opinions. Like, Reddit gameplay suggestion level of bad. 

Okay, prove me wrong. When has a vehicle in Halo been hard to use. Unironically, for real. When have they not been general free kill machines. 

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I find this hilarious.  "Would've decimated the other team without power weapons". Unless this is rhetorical and a general statement, it's bullshit. If you removed his power weapon kills for that game, he'd have gone 6/6. He wouldn't have decimated the other team, at all. Dunno where that comes from. If you were to entirely remove power weapons and the kills gained from them, red team would've gotten 33 kills, and blue team, mine, had 36. You actually have to be nuts if you think a lead on our part would've led to decimation without power weapons, lol. We could've traded the game away for a win. But teehee, power weapons come in to say the daaaay.

 

 

If you removed their power weapon kills from the game, they would've been using his utility the whole game, and would've gotten more than 3 kills during that whole game to put their team in the lead anyway. 

 

Vehicles aren't supposed to be hard to use. If they were genuinely supposed to be balanced and require skill to be used, they'd be in ranked 4v4, but they aren't, because they aren't meant to be balanced, because BTB is designed as a casual playground for them to kill shit in.

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I find this hilarious. "Would've decimated the other team without power weapons". Unless this is rhetorical and a general statement, it's bullshit. If you removed his power weapon kills for that game, he'd have gone 6/6. He wouldn't have decimated the other team, at all. Dunno where that comes from. If you were to entirely remove power weapons and the kills gained from them, red team would've gotten 33 kills, and blue team, mine, had 36. You actually have to be nuts if you think a lead on our part would've led to decimation without power weapons, lol. We could've traded the game away for a win. But teehee, power weapons come in to say the daaaay.

What a completely ridiculous statement.

 

Those kills didn't happen in a vacuum.

 

How can you possibly make the assumption that he'd only go 6/6 without power weapons?

 

Chances are he'd play the game completely differently and position differently without them. Saying he'd get only 6 kills assumes all the power weapon kills would be replaced with none?

 

Also, this is Zanzibar we're talking about here. Something tells me the skill level of all players wasn't exactly high.

 

At least give us an example with BR starts on a tournament map.

 

Feel free to provide his Gamertag and we can see how many BR kills he gets on other maps.

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Why not give people a customs browser with dedis so it can be popular in there, instead of drawing people from the five hundred matchmaking lists?

For the same reason I wouldn’t make people browse custom servers to play Team Slayer. SWAT is popular enough to warrant its own playlist in matchmaking.

 

You could make the argument that Social Slayer siphons players away from Ranked Slayer but SWAT is so different that you can’t make that argument. You’re not going to force people who want to play SWAT into Slayer by removing its matchmaking hopper and it doesn’t affect anything or anyone to have a SWAT hopper.

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Ok mods, please be gentle, I'm gonna rage for a bit...

 

I fucking HATE the casual Halo community.

 

Not dislike.

 

HATE.

 

I swear, if every casual Halo player left this game, the series could actually improve and for every casual player that left the game we would gain 5x's as many players that actually want to play Halo for...  HALO. All the SWAT players would discover that CoD exists and all the grifball players would go play Rocket League and those of us left would play arena shooter game types in AN ARENA SHOOTER.

 

Look at games like R6:S, LoL, DOTA, Counter Strike... Notice how the developers balance the game according to what pros want and not what a bunch of level 5's want?

 

Take a look at the Halo Reddit. Any outsider checking it out would think MCC is completely fixed and has no issues.

 

Literally the top post on the front page yesterday with 2.7k upvotes of... Wait for it...

 

A Warthog cameo in the next Forza game.

 

Seriously.

 

MCC just got a major patch about 2 weeks ago supposed to "fix" the game and bring all these players back to the community and 2 weeks later the top post is about a Halo vehicle appearing in a completely unrelated game from a genre 99% of the Halo community don't even care about.

 

I make a thread suggesting that perhaps 343 could give some sort of warning about long queue times to prevent players literally searching for HOURS and not finding matches. I think most here would agree that wasting peoples time like that is pretty disrespectful, especially given that match making ETA's aren't exactly a novel concept, plenty of games have them.

 

Instantly downvoted. I'm told by 343 apologists that I should be "grateful" that 343 finally decided to fix there broken game after 4 years and that "only Australians can't find matches" - as if that's somehow ok? And forgetting that ENTIRE CONTINENTS EXIST like South America and Asia. The only reason they think the game is fine because anything even REMOTELY critical of 343 is immediately down voted and swept under the rug. I swear, it's like Microsoft pays people to astroturf the sub because I can't think of any other reason people wouldn't want the game to improve.

 

Imagine a world where a bunch of level 5's in Team Slayer didn't get to dictate the balance of the game. Where casual players said "hey, maybe this guy called Ogre 2 actually knows what he's talking about considering he's won like 30 major tournaments, so if he says BR starts are more balanced than SMG starts then maybe we should just change the default starting weapon instead of dividing the community in 2"

 

Say what you will about the furries and weirdos that make up the LoL community, at least when pro players speak they're willing to listen. They're not afraid to call Riot out on bullshit decisions.

 

Apart from the awful MCC launch, has there EVER been a negative thread about 343 on the Halo sub?

 

Check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/top/?t=month

 

Heaps of negative and sarcastic threads towards Riot at the top.

 

Now look at this:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/top/?t=month

 

Notice the difference?

 

And even when there is something slightly negative it's done in the most pathetic way possible while still sucking up to the devs, like:

 

"Hey 343, MCC is the best game ever made and 343 is the best company ever. But ummmm, can I pretty please be allowed to find some games? Please? I promise I'll buy some REQ packs like a good little boy"

 

If casual players back in Halo 2 had just accepted that perhaps players with tournament and LAN experience knew how to balance a game better we wouldn't have this issue where we have to split players between a casual and a "hardcore" playlist - as if wanting to spawn with a weapon capable of actually killing people makes you "hardcore".

 

Notice how there's no "casual" ladder matches in Starcraft? Notice how there's no casual mode in LoL where champions only get half of their abilities? Notice how Counter Strike doesn't turn off all assault rifles in casual modes and only allow players to buy SMG's?

 

Notice how all these games are extremely popular and don't have dying communities?

 

Bungie apologists and 343 apologists don't like Halo. If you like something then you WANT it to improve. You don't scream at people over constructive criticism.

 

This forum is made up of players that actually LOVE Halo. There's people here that have flown interstate just to attend Halo LAN's. Plenty of people here have gone to tournaments. The casual Halo community doesn't deserve us.

 

Sorry.

 

/rant

 

Try posting that on reddit. ^_^

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Halo 2 Swat rotational playlist being added, Halo 1 4v4 getting adjustments:

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/forums/84ad72a8b51847978545f685f651fc15/topics/mcc-playlist-update-9-12-2018/675a6ad2-a316-498f-bbd9-bb48a4b7e76e/posts

 

 

Halo 2 Classic SWAT
This week we are adding in our first rotational playlist, Halo 2 Classic SWAT. With the current game variants built for SWAT in the retail build, only the Team Slayer variants will have the BR/Pistol starting weapons. In a future build update we will look to adjust the objective variants to include a pistol secondary starting weapon. We will be keeping a close eye on this social playlist to monitor its health. Here is a complete rundown of the maps and modes in this playlist.

Lockout

  • Slayer
  • Oddball
  • King of the Hill
Ascension
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
Midship
  • Slayer
  • Oddball
  • King of the Hill
  • CTF
Ivory Tower
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
Beaver Creek
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
Colossus
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
  • CTF
Warlock
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
  • CTF
Sanctuary
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
  • CTF
Turf
  • Slayer
  • King of the Hill
  • Oddball
Elongation
  • Slayer
Gemini
  • Slayer
With this playlist we have weighted the Team Slayer variants to appear the most comparatively to the objective gametypes. As always, please feel free to leave feedback on this playlist and we will continue to iterate as needed on it for future appearances.

Playlist Map and Mode Weighting Changes
HCE: Team Arena
Based on collective feedback from players within the HCE community, we have made some adjustments to the HCE Team Arena playlist. Below are the upcoming changes we are planning to rollout this Wednesday.
Weighting changes
  • Increased weighting to Damnation Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Battle Creek Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Prisoner Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Hang em’ High Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Chill Out Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Derelict Team Slayer
  • Increased weighting to Rat Race Team Slayer
Additions
  • Added Battle Creek King of the Hill
  • Added Blood Gulch Snipers
  • Added Boarding Action Snipers
Removals
  • Removed Longest Team Slayer
  • Removed Wizard Team Slayer
  • Removed Prisoner King of the Hill
  • Removed Damnation Oddball
  • Removed Wizard Oddball
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Just played a kid who got this on the enemy team, led his team in kills, went 16/6. He got a snipe and sword kill too, rounding out his kill total to 10 power weapon kills, and 4 BR kills, with a nade and a melee making up the two others. This fucking kid only had a fourth of his kills being the game's fucking utility. In a game where the utility actually works. H2A. This kid didn't get into ANY actual gunfights, and won the game like this. And if you remove his power weapon kills, only went 6/6. You can't actually tell me this shit is okay, and how Halo should work.

GySz11M.png

and if you spawn everyone with rockets and snipe he would have won. Ur team was worse because they sucked with power weapons, and the other team wanted them more and won those battles. Also what map has sword and rockets on it jn h2a? Good ole competitive stonetown/zanzibar? Theres 2 snipes on that map so seems like ur team just sucked at sniping.

 

He prob would have went 16/6 without rockets, its just ur team was easier to kill with them lol. Instead of rocketting the warthog for a triple kill, he could have stuck it for example but its easier to just rocket it. It also just means that none of his teammates got the rockets. Saying he would go 6/6 is absurd lol. He could have done even better. Like some games i pick up snipe/rockets and miss when i could have got an easy br clean up.

 

Also 8 rocket kills on stonedown is ********. The map is so fucking huge. Ur teammates were thumbless. Maybe you too.

 

Gunskill alone winning games is stupid. Getting power weapons requires gunskill and knowledge. Thats why we have them. To increase the skillgap. Losing to rockets doenst mean u lost to someone with less skill. Its just you got outmatched. Your gunskill is level 100 and his is level 80 but your analytical skill is a 20 and hes an 80 (figuratively). Aka hes more skilled than yoi, at least in that game.

 

I get it, you dont find satisfaction in getting rocket kills. You like "out br-ing people" (which btw is just first shot wins at the highest level). But you know whats more satisfying? Killing rocket guy just before he grabs camo. Its not a 2 kill swing like a br on br kill but potentially an 8 kill swing. Then you have the fear of them doing the same to you. It makes the game exciting as well as adds depth/increases the skill gap

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For the same reason I wouldn’t make people browse custom servers to play Team Slayer. SWAT is popular enough to warrant its own playlist in matchmaking.

 

You could make the argument that Social Slayer siphons players away from Ranked Slayer but SWAT is so different that you can’t make that argument. You’re not going to force people who want to play SWAT into Slayer by removing its matchmaking hopper and it doesn’t affect anything or anyone to have a SWAT hopper.

 

If the population can support it, fine, give it a playlist, but FFS don't make it ranked and pretend it's not a casual game type for casual players.

 

Ranks lose meaning when you've got people playing a completely different game. LoL doesn't rank ARAM, Halo shouldn't rank SWAT.

 

Also, people that play Halo to play SWAT are literally just playing a medicore version of Call of Duty, so I really don't get it.

 

Why would you play SWAT in Halo when Call of Duty offers pretty much the exact same mechanics except 10X's better?

 

It's like if you wanted to play a racing car game so you drove Warthogs around Valhalla when you could just play Forza.

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If the population can support it, fine, give it a playlist, but FFS don't make it ranked and pretend it's not a casual game type for casual players.

 

Ranks lose meaning when you've got people playing a completely different game. LoL doesn't rank ARAM, Halo shouldn't rank SWAT.

 

Also, people that play Halo to play SWAT are literally just playing a medicore version of Call of Duty, so I really don't get it.

 

Why would you play SWAT in Halo when Call of Duty offers pretty much the exact same mechanics except 10X's better?

 

It's like if you wanted to play a racing car game so you drove Warthogs around Valhalla when you could just play Forza.

What does it matter to you if SWAT is ranked?

 

SWAT did have a gamebattles league so regardless of what you think, people did take it seriously. You can call it casual but people did play it hyper competitively.

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Also vehicles are hard to use in halo, they have a lot of skill involved.

 

Yes any joe can go 2:1 in the banshee. It takes a real pro to go 30:1 on valhalla dealing with 8 competent people who have Ars, stickies, power drains, missile pods. its hard to lead the turret and if ur close enough you dont have to lead then u can die to two ars.

 

I was a 50 in btb/squad for h3. Well 47-50. There were only a handful of people that we would worry about getting a banshee. And if they werent in the game the banshee was a non factor most of the game.

 

And that goes for all the vehicles minus the warthog in halo3. The driver is the one with the most skill for the warthog. Being able to put the most dps as possible and push the vehicle to its limit is what took skill. And also taking them down took skill and coordination with a little bit of luck.

 

Guess the same could be said with power weapons and ups in halo except generally you can win 1v1 vs rockets/snipe (disregarding having spartan laser).

 

 

Also yes if one team loses a game and a banshee pilot went 50-3 vs them, i would consider that team less skilled at that map even if all of them had "better br skill" - lmao at me even typing br skill in halo3.

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The irony of thinking a console shooter should have its skill gap consist entirely of aiming and strafing. God forbid people use their brain once in a while and use some strategy to time and acquire a power item. Are power weapons entirely too easy outside of CE? Yes for the most part, especially in recent titles. But saying all power items need to go is just ridiculous.

 

Let's just do away with all ranked playlists and make Octagon 1v1s the premier eSport gametype.

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What does it matter to you if SWAT is ranked?

 

SWAT did have a gamebattles league so regardless of what you think, people did take it seriously. You can call it casual but people did play it hyper competitively.

 

Like I said, it makes ranks lose meaning.

 

If someone says "I'm an Onyx" that should mean something. Note, I don't say it does mean anything because at this point ranks don't and never have meant anything. It would be nice if they did though.

 

If someone in LoL says they're Diamond that means they're in the TOP 2% of players. If someone says they're a Master or Challenger than you know they're pretty much a pro player. It's like the top 0.04% of players.

 

If someone in Halo says "I'm a level 50" it just means they played a lot. I got ranked Onyx in SWAT after my placements in Halo 5. I've played the playlist like a dozen times or something. That just shows how stupidly easy the game mode is.

 

And GameBattles having a league really doesn't mean anything.

 

I mean, there's literally a sport where a bunch of people chase a giant wheel of cheese down a hill. No, seriously:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper%27s_Hill_Cheese-Rolling_and_Wake

 

You can have a tournament over anything.

 

 

The irony of thinking a console shooter should have its skill gap consist entirely of aiming and strafing.

 

Yeah, good point. The autoaim in all Halo's is crazy. Even Halo 1 has a pretty good amount of autoaim.

 

I've been playing a bit of Quake Champions on PC recently and just getting a body shot with the railgun is on par with getting a TSK in Halo 1.

 

If you were going to argue that power weapons should be removed to make aiming more important than maybe making aiming hard to begin with would be a good place to start. In Halo 5 I get perfection medals constantly and I don't even think I'm particularly good at the game. Granted I'm not playing pros or anything, but far out, the autoaim could be cut in half easily and it would still have a decent amount.

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The irony of thinking a console shooter should have its skill gap consist entirely of aiming and strafing. God forbid people use their brain once in a while and use some strategy to time and acquire a power item. Are power weapons entirely too easy outside of CE? Yes for the most part, especially in recent titles. But saying all power items need to go is just ridiculous.

 

Let's just do away with all ranked playlists and make Octagon 1v1s the premier eSport gametype.

I'm sorry WHAT? Dude removing power weapons isn't to make the game focused only on gunskill. It's to remove the piss easy free kill weapons that are boring. It's nit trying to be ANYTHING like octagon. I guess removing power weapons somehow gets rid of movement skill, map control, spawn awareness and control, ALL positioning skill the list goes onnnnnn. Lmao somehow wanting the main focus to be even fights takes ALL that out of the game I guess. So halo is braindead 2 minutes at a time when power weapons aren't in play. Got it.

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When i used to play Halo 2 and 3 religiously with the same small group of people, we had 1 guy that was always whoring the power weapons.  He would regularly get half or more of his kill from the power weapons... and that was on purpose.  He was better with them than we were (partially because he used them so much haha) so we coordinated control around that.  We did it better than the other teams, and he would go ham.  This didn't "just happen", and if we were playing games without as much control he was still one of the better players and did well.

 

Trying to say that because one guy had a good game with power weapons he would have been average without them is totally asinine.  Controlling weapons is part of the game and is a very core element of what makes Halo, Halo since 2001. Its often one persons job.  If we want to bitch about power weapons in any halo game, it should be the fact that the utilities got watered down to make challenging them riskier and how for some awful reason static spawns were removed as well.  Those 2 elements can lead to shitty experiences trying to challenge power weapons and power ups.  Its generally not the weapons themselves, except maybe in the case of the Reach -> Halo 5 sniper.

 

Like i said earlier, if you dont have specific complaints like what i just mentioned and just hate that aspect of Halo regardless, then you're basically pissing into the wind with your complaints.  

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/rant

 

With all due respect - I couldn't disagree more with you.

 

Halo has always been a franchise that is a game so many - of all ages - have grown to love for their own reasons.  Many of those reasons cross over between each other (competitive, grifball, infection, BTB, race, forge, warzone, etc.)  It's a franchise I can play trying to be my best, but can also party up with friends while drinking and have a fucking blast swinging a hammer!

 

Apparently it's national video game day (lame, but whatever) and I heard this news story on the way in to work.  Top 10 favorite voted on franchises.  Outside of the obvious platform exclusive Nintendo owns (Mario, Zelda, Pokemon,) the only other exclusive on the list is Halo.

 

To me that speaks volumes to how important a casual community is to this franchise.  People know the game, they love it just like you and everyone else on this forum.  And i'm happy we all have a chance to play it, in whatever capacity they want.

 

https://big979.iheart.com/content/2018-09-12-its-national-video-games-day/

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@@Pyroteq

 

I don’t find your reasoning of “making ranks lose meaning” compelling enough to limit an entire community of players. If they want to play SWAT competitively, for ranks, it hurts no one and nothing to let them. You can still be pretentious and feel superior to them even if the SWAT playlist is ranked.

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So this is what the Halo community has come to now? People are actually arguing for the removal of power weapons. Sometimes I wonder why I even stick around. Then again, I made it through the "AR takes skill" debates, so I figure I can make it through this.

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