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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Provided 343 has the capability, what about Tommy Kost's proposal?

 

Check which games you want to play, and then have individual playlists for each game mode. Eliminates cross-game playlists, and eliminates several playlists per game for the same mode.

 

e.g. You want to play Halo 3 doubles. You uncheck everything except Halo 3 and then search the "Team Doubles" playlist. As long as someone else has H3 installed and checked, you can match them. For example, you can match someone that has only Halo 3 installed, or has every game installed. If you want to play Halo 1 2v2, then you uncheck everything aside from Halo 1 and you have the H1 Doubles playlist as it is in current MCC. Yet it is the same playlist.

 

There's too many playlists and merging MLG and social (and similar ideas) sounds ridiculous. This idea would eliminate most people's issues with the playlists while also minimizing the amount of them. I get that 343 hate Tommy but given the current state of the game I don't see how this idea could go wrong if it functions properly.

this is what people mean when they say mix tape playlist

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I played 6 games of H2A yesterday... played snipers 5 fucking times. Who thought that was a good idea? 

Get fucking SCAMMED. I quit whenever I get it. Give no fucks to play a game where kids just hide and headglitch on wideass maps. 

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Get fucking SCAMMED. I quit whenever I get it. Give no fucks to play a game where kids just hide and headglitch on wideass maps. 

 

Yeah it was bad.  And i was playing on my tv from 10 feet away (hence why i was in that playlist in the fist place since it should be social).

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Turns out, if you don't pick up the Oddball in a game, people will message you, report you, and call you a K/D whore, even if you're doing nothing but waiting for icicles to spawn to kill people with, going 8/5, lmao.

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Turns out, if you don't pick up the Oddball in a game, people will message you, report you, and call you a K/D whore, even if you're doing nothing but waiting for icicles to spawn to kill people with, going 8/5, lmao.

Why do power ups and power weapons suck?

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Why do power ups and power weapons suck?

General shitty implementation and ease of use. Camo's either very finicky, forcing you to play cautiously and slow (Better), or obnoxiously implemented, like Halo 5's current camo. Where you can't see someone two feet in front of you, and can't shoot them at all, since you have no aim assist. Which means they can play recklessly and get stupidshit kills they normally wouldn't. It's obnoxious dicking on some kid and then being able to do nothing when you actually can't shoot, or aim at him, because teehee, camoooo. Overshield's just a mindless "run forward" mechanic that makes you play by running forward. One of those dumbass "you can't contest me, even if you're better than me" mechanics too, and I fucking despise that shit. I love counting four shots on an OS dude I'm juking and internally going "Yeah, I'd have murdered you in a straight up gunfight without your crutch, but alas".

 

Power weapons vary, too. The only half acceptable power weapon is Halo 3's sniper. It's "fine", but still nothing too special. Good enough to make a noscope impressive at least. But almost every other weapon is completely stupid, and braindead easy to use. Like the shotgun, rockets, etc. They're generally one hit kill mechanics which have no difficulty curve and little in the way of defense for people without them. And they make for some of the worst snowballing games of all time. And it's stupider when your utility is NEVER able to outright contest one, meaning someone who's completely braindead can still easily off you with one, even if you're better at the base game. Because unless you have one, you're always going to be four shots weaker than your attacker, which is stupid in a game with suuuuuper long kill times.

 

In general, just ease of use. There has basically never been a good Halo power weapon, or power up. Ironically barring the aforementioned, and speed boost. The latter being funny because people hate it for some reason when it's the only one with a practical effect that doesn't give you some obscene power or health buff. It only buffs your movement, which actually grants you a SLICK strafe speed, but that's about it. Speed boost is ONLY as good as you are, compared to others, which make you good enough to just have a guaranteed free kill, regardless of skill. I'd love to see speed boost used more for that, but I doubt it'll ever be used again. 

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General shitty implementation and ease of use...

 

And how do you propose an incentive for players to move around the map without power ups or power weapons?

 

Without an OS for players to contest or a rocket launcher spawning in the next 30 seconds players would just get 1 kill in the lead and then setup in a defensive position and run the clock down. Literally every single match would turn into Lockout TS or The Pit TS but 20x's more boring.

 

The OS guy that you think you're better than just because you had better aim had better map control than you. He didn't beat you because of a "crutch", he beat you because he controlled that area of the map and got the OS before you did.

 

If FPS were all about nothing but aim they would be boring as hell. Sure, I like to play instagib in UT or Quake, but only as a fun casual game type. It's fun to get a bunch of multikills in instagib FFA, but nothing beats the satisfying feeling of getting a lightning gun headshot on the guy that just picked up the super shield it a 1v1.

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General shitty implementation and ease of use. Camo's either very finicky, forcing you to play cautiously and slow (Better), or obnoxiously implemented, like Halo 5's current camo. Where you can't see someone two feet in front of you, and can't shoot them at all, since you have no aim assist. Which means they can play recklessly and get stupidshit kills they normally wouldn't. It's obnoxious dicking on some kid and then being able to do nothing when you actually can't shoot, or aim at him, because teehee, camoooo. Overshield's just a mindless "run forward" mechanic that makes you play by running forward. One of those dumbass "you can't contest me, even if you're better than me" mechanics too, and I fucking despise that shit. I love counting four shots on an OS dude I'm juking and internally going "Yeah, I'd have murdered you in a straight up gunfight without your crutch, but alas".

 

Power weapons vary, too. The only half acceptable power weapon is Halo 3's sniper. It's "fine", but still nothing too special. Good enough to make a noscope impressive at least. But almost every other weapon is completely stupid, and braindead easy to use. Like the shotgun, rockets, etc. They're generally one hit kill mechanics which have no difficulty curve and little in the way of defense for people without them. And they make for some of the worst snowballing games of all time. And it's stupider when your utility is NEVER able to outright contest one, meaning someone who's completely braindead can still easily off you with one, even if you're better at the base game. Because unless you have one, you're always going to be four shots weaker than your attacker, which is stupid in a game with suuuuuper long kill times.

In general, just ease of use. There has basically never been a good Halo power weapon, or power up. Ironically barring the aforementioned, and speed boost. The latter being funny because people hate it for some reason when it's the only one with a practical effect that doesn't give you some obscene power or health buff. It only buffs your movement, which actually grants you a SLICK strafe speed, but that's about it. Speed boost is ONLY as good as you are, compared to others, which make you good enough to just have a guaranteed free kill, regardless of skill. I'd love to see speed boost used more for that, but I doubt it'll ever be used again.

 

You say sniper no scopes are impressive but shooting at a Camo guy is obnoxious. Aren’t they both the same thing? Using your weapon without aim assist?

 

You say that that OS is just a mindless run forward mechanic that let’s him beat you in a one on one gunfight but wouldn’t you be just as mad if he sat in his fortified base the whole game and never moved, forcing you to attack him from a disadvantaged position every time, resulting in you losing those one on one gunfights too?

 

From what I gather, you aren’t against the concept of power ups and power weapons. You understand that powerful pick ups are neccessary to create player movement around the map but you feel like the current line up does not require skill to use. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

As for power weapons, how do you feel about the Reach Grenade Launcher? Does that weapon require skill to use effectively? Can that weapon be contested by a skilled player?

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@@Pyroteq

 

I think SWAT teaches a lot of valuable skills in Halo. Quickly lining up precision headshots, predicting spawns and player movement, how to give quick precise callouts, knowing when to challenge and when to back down, knowing when to throw that crouch/jump/strafe in at the perfect moment to throw your enemy’s aim off. I wouldn’t write it off as a casual, party gametype like you could with something like Griffball.

 

If anything, it could be argued that SWAT is closer to CE than most modern Halo gametypes because one player can quickly wipe out an entire enemy team if he is skilled enough because he possesses a weapon that allows him to do so.

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Just a reminder the only power weapon in CE is the rockets, which isn't a press button to win because you can miss relatively easy and you'll be dead before you can fire the 2nd.

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And how do you propose an incentive for players to move around the map without power ups or power weapons?

 

Without an OS for players to contest or a rocket launcher spawning in the next 30 seconds players would just get 1 kill in the lead and then setup in a defensive position and run the clock down. Literally every single match would turn into Lockout TS or The Pit TS but 20x's more boring.

 

The OS guy that you think you're better than just because you had better aim had better map control than you. He didn't beat you because of a "crutch", he beat you because he controlled that area of the map and got the OS before you did.

 

If FPS were all about nothing but aim they would be boring as hell. Sure, I like to play instagib in UT or Quake, but only as a fun casual game type. It's fun to get a bunch of multikills in instagib FFA, but nothing beats the satisfying feeling of getting a lightning gun headshot on the guy that just picked up the super shield it a 1v1.

Basically, to offset the lack of them, I'd propose obj, lmao. Obj, and giving you a good spawn weapon. A reason to move, and win. Move, shoot, control, win. Yunno, the goal of the game. Make it a thing. Push it forward in terms of importance. So that you're able to not only fight WITHOUT power weapons, but still have a need to push around the map. I just find it funny that, apparently the only thing making people move in game is the fact power weapons and power ups exist. Because they're not in rotation 24/7 nonetheless, yet, people still move around the map and slay, to change or hold positions, or get momentum going for a flag cap. So it's not like removing them permanently changes that. Just play a game of Truth CTF. Camo isn't in rotation 24/7, and no power weapons exist on it, yet that map has super good gameplay, and isn't campy.

 

To the map control point, my point on the OS fight is solely how OS impacts the fight, not how map control impacts picking up the OS, which I find also dumb in a game so dependent on your team, lol. The point, again, is just that OS allows some dude to survive a fight where he'd have been dicked on elsewhere. It's entirely a crutch in how it plays out in a fight.

 

And I don't get how an FPS solely determined by your aim and how good you are would somehow be boring. If you're fucking good, slaying people off the bat and getting a good obj push going would be great, especially when you have no cheeseball shit coming in to randomly OHKO you. It's literally just you against some other team and it boils down to how well you can aim, shoot, and position yourself. GREAT mechanics when bundled together, if done right. I don't get why a game needs shitass mechanics to somehow be fun. As if the base gameplay isn't good enough. I literally just don't get it. Especially when said power weapons are again, almost always free kills. What is fun about running a train on someone with an easy sniper, or a rocket launcher. Or getting an uncontested kill on someone because your shield has 2X the juice behind it. 

 

You say sniper no scopes are impressive but shooting at a Camo guy is obnoxious. Aren’t they both the same thing? Using your weapon without aim assist?

 

You say that that OS is just a mindless run forward mechanic that let’s him beat you in a one on one gunfight but wouldn’t you be just as mad if he sat in his fortified base the whole game and never moved, forcing you to attack him from a disadvantaged position every time, resulting in you losing those one on one gunfights too?

 

From what I gather, you aren’t against the concept of power ups and power weapons. You understand that powerful pick ups are neccessary to create player movement around the map but you feel like the current line up does not require skill to use. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

As for power weapons, how do you feel about the Reach Grenade Launcher? Does that weapon require skill to use effectively? Can that weapon be contested by a skilled player?

They're not the same thing. Camo isn't JUST about shooting someone without aim assist. You're losing your ability to see them, and they have the ability to move anywhere, and sit anywhere in the open. That's different than engaging in a battle with a noscope being a potential outcome. Camo has a huge impact for that reason.

 

And no, I wouldn't be mad at that OS situation, because I wouldn't be attacking him if he ran off. I'd just let him burn it out if he wants to sit back like a turret. He isn't forcing me to do anything if he plays defensively like that, compared to being attacked in a straight gunfight.

 

Power ups/weapons aren't necessary. At all. You can see this shit when power weapons and ups aren't in rotation and people still move around freely, if not more freely without the threat of some rocket kid sitting around. You're not gonna be having games where people just sit in their bases and don't move just because they don't have a power weapon. Truth in Halo 5 is a hilarious example of this. 

 

And I find Reach's GL to be kinda overrated to be honest, lol. Maybe I'm just dumb with it, but it is super easy to hit someone with what amounts to an airborne grenade, WITH manual explosive properties. It's not really a hard weapon at a base, no. If anything, it can be more annoying than a super easy sniper, as most explosive weapons tend to be. Especially with the maps it's on. Like fucking Powerhouse. CQC. It's terrible.

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@@TheIcePrincess

 

In a game of CTF, where red team is winning 2-0, what incentive do they have to move themselves into a less advantageous position without on map pick ups like power ups and power weapons?

 

In the same vein, what are the chances of blue team successfully wiping out a team who is set up and playing defensively, when there are no power ups or power weapons on the map?

 

Can you see that power items encourage a winning team to move and allow a losing team to push successfully?

 

Are there any power weapons in any Halo games that you believe require skill to operate effectively?

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@@TheIcePrincess

 

In a game of CTF, where red team is winning 2-0, what incentive do they have to move themselves into a less advantageous position without on map pick ups like power ups and power weapons?

 

In the same vein, what are the chances of blue team successfully wiping out a team who is set up and playing defensively, when there are no power ups or power weapons on the map?

 

Can you see that power items encourage a winning team to move and allow a losing team to push successfully?

 

Are there any power weapons in any Halo games that you believe require skill to operate effectively?

I mean, it depends on the situation, lol. If they're winning and have no need to push up, then that's their choice, but the win is why they'd want to. Power weapons aren't gonna change that if they're running a 2-0 train on someone, lol. They could very well just be waiting to amass another multi-kill train to push up again. It's a hypothetical, so it could go sixteen different ways.

 

And if blue team's being dicked on by red, why is the "solution" to give them cheeseball shit to have a fighting chance against people who're outright better than them, lmao. WHY nullify the fact red team is better to the point of a straight 2-0 without these dumb mechanics behind it. Just let people lose, lmao.

 

If a team is getting their ass kicked, the solution shouldn't be "have an easy weapon to make a push with". It should be "take the impending loss on the nose and move on" or "try and fight for a comeback with your base skill, since you're literally on even footing with your opponent equipment wise". 

 

And as I said, H3's sniper is basically the only acceptable one.

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@@TheIcePrincess

 

So once a team gets the lead, their best strategy is to turtle up and play defensively for the entire rest of the match. Do you think that makes for fun, interesting gameplay?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtling_(gameplay)

 

“Turtling is a gameplay strategy that emphasizes heavy defense, with little or no offense. Ostensibly, turtling minimizes risk to the turtling player while baiting opponents to take risks in trying to overcome the defenses. In practice, however, games are often designed to punish turtling through various game mechanics. Consequently, while turtling strategies are usually simple enough for novices to learn and are effective as such, they are easily defeated by experienced players who understand the game's methods to counter turtling.”

 

Without power ups or power weapons, what mechanics punish turtling in Halo?

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@@TheIcePrincess

 

So once a team gets the lead, their best strategy is to turtle up and play defensively for the entire rest of the match. Do you think that makes for fun, interesting gameplay?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtling_(gameplay)

 

“Turtling is a gameplay strategy that emphasizes heavy defense, with little or no offense. Ostensibly, turtling minimizes risk to the turtling player while baiting opponents to take risks in trying to overcome the defenses. In practice, however, games are often designed to punish turtling through various game mechanics. Consequently, while turtling strategies are usually simple enough for novices to learn and are effective as such, they are easily defeated by experienced players who understand the game's methods to counter turtling.

 

Without power ups or power weapons, what mechanics punish turtling in Halo?

I get where both people are coming from but c'mon this one is was provided. 

 

Turtling never (well usually doesn't) ends well in CTF for Halo. 

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@@Pyroteq

 

I think SWAT teaches a lot of valuable skills in Halo. Quickly lining up precision headshots, predicting spawns and player movement, how to give quick precise callouts, knowing when to challenge and when to back down, knowing when to throw that crouch/jump/strafe in at the perfect moment to throw your enemy’s aim off. I wouldn’t write it off as a casual, party gametype like you could with something like Griffball.

 

If anything, it could be argued that SWAT is closer to CE than most modern Halo gametypes because one player can quickly wipe out an entire enemy team if he is skilled enough because he possesses a weapon that allows him to do so.

 

Except SWAT in many Halo games has BR spawns so you don't even need to aim properly, you just swipe the burst over their head and get insta-kills. What seperates Halo from many other FPS like Counter Strike and CoD is the longer kill times. You have to sustain your aim over multiple shots, other wise you might as well play any number of other tactical FPS.

 

I have nothing against people playing SWAT in custom games just like I have nothing against instagib in UT and Quake. It doesn't belong in ranked though and I don't believe it helps player skill at all. What helps player skill is knowing how to sustain you aim in a fire fight, how to strafe and how to position yourself and move around the map.

 

SWAT in Halo might help you learn how to position in CoD or CS, but it won't make you better at competitive Halo... The way you get better at Halo is just playing Halo. No one has ever become a Halo pro from playing FFA on Octagon or SWAT, they've become good by playing real Halo games.

 

 

Basically, to offset the lack of them, I'd propose obj, lmao. Obj, and giving you a good spawn weapon. A reason to move, and win. Move, shoot, control, win. Yunno, the goal of the game. Make it a thing. Push it forward in terms of importance. So that you're able to not only fight WITHOUT power weapons, but still have a need to push around the map. I just find it funny that, apparently the only thing making people move in game is the fact power weapons and power ups exist. Because they're not in rotation 24/7 nonetheless, yet, people still move around the map and slay, to change or hold positions, or get momentum going for a flag cap. So it's not like removing them permanently changes that. Just play a game of Truth CTF. Camo isn't in rotation 24/7, and no power weapons exist on it, yet that map has super good gameplay, and isn't campy.

And what, we play 1v1 Oddball or 2v2 CTF? Literally the only weapon is the BR? Every map would need to be symmetrical to accommodate more objective game types.

 

Areas of the map would be completely ignored and players would only ever take the fastest route to the objective.

 

I'll be blunt, what you're proposing is stupid. We have DECADES of arena FPS games like UT and Quake - Games that require far more skill than Halo and if you think an OS makes a player OP, wait until you see what a player does with a Mega Health and a Super Shield.

 

GREAT mechanics when bundled together, if done right. I don't get why a game needs shitass mechanics to somehow be fun. As if the base gameplay isn't good enough.

 

You're basically implying Quake and UT have "shitass mechanics"... Kinda hard to take this seriously.

 

Also, you keep implying players don't deserve kills just because they picked up OS or rockets and ignore the fact that they had to fight over control of these power ups in the first place. It's not like you just spawn with rockets. Both teams know it's coming up and they contest them. If you're so much better than another player they'll never get rockets in the first place.

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I get where both people are coming from but c'mon this one is was provided. 

 

Turtling never (well usually doesn't) ends well in CTF for Halo.

 

Turtling doesn’t mean have all four players hide inside the base. Back down from less advantageous fights, force enemies to move into less advantageous positions. Basically, force the enemy to take all the risks while you enjoy all the advantages.

 

If I am misunderstanding you, please explain further.

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Turtling doesn’t mean have all four players hide inside the base. Back down from less advantageous fights, force enemies to move into less advantageous positions. Basically, force the enemy to take all the risks while you enjoy all the advantages.

 

If I am misunderstanding you, please explain further.

Playing defensive and turtling in halo is effectively the same thing. Regarding later Halo's where the individual is less powerful all the attacking team needs to do is get 1 kill and the defense theoretically fall apart. Not to mention with 10 second respawns, if the other team slays your team once over and gets the next spawner or two it's a cap with potential to be a double cap. 

 

Dying in/near your base is bad juju

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@@Pyroteq

 

I agree that burst weapons don’t belong in SWAT. I disagree that it shouldn’t be a playlist because it has consistently been the third most popular playlist in past Halo games, behind BTB and TS. Why take something away that so many people enjoy just because it doesn’t fit your view of how Halo should be played when it in no way affects how you want to play Halo?

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