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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Anyone looking to play H:CE, H2, and H3 for customs or matchmaking. Please add me, my XBL GT is Tonafide.

 

Thank you

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The one problem with game chat has always had a solution:

 

muteplayerwcdn6.jpg

 

Party chat is the destroyer of online community.

 

Yeah well its not like part chat is going to be removed or that 343 are even capable of doing something like setting playlists up that force people out of party chat. Have you seen their gametype settings?

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Take away party chat and people will just use discord lmao. If I want to talk to my friends I don't want other people listening in or being forced to listen in. Privacy is a great thing. Game chat is ass. Acting like it's not some child verbally abusing his team all game 90% of the time is just a straight joke.

 

You act like Teamspeak hasn't been around forever. 99% of players aren't going to launch a 3rd party service if the in game chat works just fine.

 

And not only that, but this antagonism of the party system somehow ruining community's abilities to be social goes out the window when you can still communicate with random people by message and the like. Voice messages, at that.

Yes, you're right. I'll just pause my game, bring up the message menu, record myself saying "hey mate, rockets up in 10 seconds", hit send and then they can pause the game, read my message and go collect the rockets.

 

...

 

You didn't really think this through, did you?

 

Removing party chat does nothing but actually inconvenience people who want to just relax and game with their friends in peace and privacy,

 

This is why custom games exist. You can make the game fully private so you don't have to communicate with other nasty Halo players.

 

This. As I said in my other response, I find it hilariously shallow that your idea of why people wouldn't agree with this is because people don't want to interact with others (Like it's somehow a bad thing), and not only that, but it wouldn't fix shit, and would only be less user friendly.

 

Halo 2 would disagree with you.

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The one problem with game chat has always had a solution:

 

muteplayerwcdn6.jpg

 

Party chat is the destroyer of online community.

technically that doesnt exist on mcc

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Yes, you're right. I'll just pause my game, bring up the message menu, record myself saying "hey mate, rockets up in 10 seconds", hit send and then they can pause the game, read my message and go collect the rockets.

 

...

 

You didn't really think this through, did you?

 

 

This is why custom games exist. You can make the game fully private so you don't have to communicate with other nasty Halo players.

 

 

Halo 2 would disagree with you.

Lmao, yes, I'll completely separate myself from the competitive community, multiplayer setup, and my friends because I don't wanna talk with randoms. That's the solution. Entirely. You realize that's a hilariously inefficient "solution" to an intangible problem, right? Getting 8 people together at the right time for a Halo grind in specific settings. I don't even think I have 8 close friends like that. Let alone 8 that still play Halo. And no joke, I'd probably have better success finding matches on 2014 MCC before I'd be able to rally 8 people for Halo like that, again. @My Namez BEAST and I know this struggle a little too much, lmao.

 

But to summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong, the issue here is the fact your callouts may fall on deaf ears because you're hypothetically solo queuing or the like, as per an earlier TO3 reference. You can't message callouts, so there's a problem, because people hang in parties in games and can't hear you. So, somehow, your takeaway is the fact that party chat exists, is the problem, not the fact you're solo searching in a game that is defined by the fact you succeed as a group.  

 

And yeah, a decade and a half old game disagrees, yet, we don't live in those times anymore. We live in a time where the option to have both is available. You're talking about a time where it outright didn't exist. Not a time where it existed and was removed and things went fine. Big difference. It would be a proper response if this was 2004-2008, but it's not. It's 10 years AFTER that. 

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But to summarize, and correct me if I'm wrong, the issue here is the fact your callouts may fall on deaf ears because you're hypothetically solo queuing or the like, as per an earlier TO3 reference. You can't message callouts, so there's a problem, because people hang in parties in games and can't hear you. So, somehow, your takeaway is the fact that party chat exists, is the problem, not the fact you're solo searching in a game that is defined by the fact you succeed as a group

 

Ummm, exactly?

 

Since in H2 this wasn't an issue?

 

How the hell do you propose that new comers to XBL make new friends online when they can't even talk to others without jumping through hoops?

 

The experience for new Halo players is:

  • Join a game.
  • Get decimated by a group of 4 opponents that are all communicating while you have 3 team mates all in separate parties.
  • Repeat
  • Get frustrated
  • Quit the game and uninstall

Then people wonder why Halo is dying.

 

Your solution is that players shouldn't be allowed to search solo because you need to work as a group to win... Except there's literally nothing that prevents a group of randoms from communicating with each other and working together... In fact, it happens all the time. I've played plenty of scrims with people I've never played with before and we've communicated just fine. It's not like someone needs to be your best buddy to understand what "rockets on my X" means.

 

I'm struggling to see your point. You'd rather people only ever interact with people they personally know?

 

I've been playing online games for 2 decades at this point and all the evidence I've seen would suggest that all games have far better communities when players can interact with each other, which massively boosts the longevity of a game. The fact that Halo's popularity has dropped off like a cliff helps support my claim.

 

Generally people play a game for the game play but they STAY for the community.

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And this is why Halo used to be great. 

 

I miss hearing some guy going "wooooooooow okaaaayyy" when you out-BR them in a H2 FFA before the Spartan deathsound cuts them off.

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You act like Teamspeak hasn't been around forever. 99% of players aren't going to launch a 3rd party service if the in game chat works just fine.

 

 

Just want to point out that I can play a PC game, use TS3/Discord for private convo with friends, but still use in-game voip options because TS3 and Discord don't lock me out of game chat if I am using them, like party chat does on Xbox One or PS4. I can have the best of both worlds. 

 

so, despite Discord/TS3 being a hell of a lot easier to use than Xbox Live Party chat, people still use in-game voip because they aren't locked out of it. Allow people to use both at the same time, so that you cant have that private convo with your friends, but you are still able to make call-outs to anyone in your team who isn't in your party. I do it all the time in Rainbow 6 Siege (PC). I'll play with a couple friends in our discord server and we'll have our private convo, but we are still able to make callouts and talk to the players who aren't in our discord but are in our team.

 

I'm not sure why people are calling for the death of party chat when PC literally has the ideal solution that works for everybody sitting right there.

 

 

Then people wonder why Halo is dying.

 

 

 

I imagine its because the past few games have been dog-shit, not because people aren't talking in voice-chat. 

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I didn't once act like I was being attacked, was offended, or anything, but okay. My entire point just hinged on how ditching parties for trash talk is stupid when trash talk loses its luster after a few games, and is just dumb and obnoxious. Not to mention how parties aren't an issue when the means of communication just shifts, the main point of what I was responding to being the claim that parties ruined the social aspect of the service. You missed my point. Gravely.

You also missed my point, which is hilariously surprising. Double whoosh. Do some rereading.

What Pyroteq said. I’ve been around for both. This is worse.

 

Just to be clear, I’m talking about forced game chat in ranked games. Nothing else. I love party chat and use it all the time. But let’s stop pretending that it’s anything less than a middle finger to your teammates in ranked games.

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Ranked mm should be forced gamechat. And you’ll go to discord? Go ahead, because most likely your buddies won’t even be playing the same game and don’t want to bother loading up that app on their Xbox ones(most Xbox one players don’t own a pc) because it’s buggy as shit.

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thinking that people will just switch to some 3rd party chat app if they are forced into game chat is laughable.  for the vast majority of people, thats simply a pita.  especially when you are playing on a TV, which most people do, using Discord is ass.    Odds are if people are willing to do that, they are playing in a full or almost full party anyway and its a moot point. In cases like that they aren't playing in party chat to avoid other players, they are playing in it because game chat sucks.  If you're unwilling to force people to use game chat in ranked, part of the solution could be to simply make game chat not suck donkey balls.  The way it is now, you lose connection when loading into or out of a game.  Games often start, and the chat for one of the players just fucking dies. etc etc.  That's why i started using party chat.

  Make game chat not terrible and people will be more likely to use it.

 

One of the problems with forcing game chat for ranked is the fact that there are so many fucking ranked playlists.  There might only be a ranked option for a gametype that someone wants to play casually.  We already know the fix for that problem...  If there were only 3 ranked lists like there should be, forcing game chat would be fine.  If they can't stomach that for ranked and there is a non-ranked option available then fuck it you aren't willing to try hard enough so don't play ranked.  Another option would be to give players more utility about how game chat actually works.  Don't want to hear people in pre or post game? There could be an option for that.  Never want to hear the other team? Put an option for that too. Or put in an "Autoswitch to game chat for ranked" option.  Then you could be in a party so that when you are navigating around you can still hear each other but when the game starts it will switch to game chat and you dont have to worry about handling it manually.  Or add a "Bleed through party chat for players in game" option that would let you be in party chat and game chat at the same time.  Only the voices from the people that are in your game with you would be passed to game chat.  ie, if you are in party chat with 4 people, 2 are in your halo lobby with you and the other 2 are playing Rocket League, only the people in your Halo lobby would have their voices passed to game chat and vice versa.

 

There are many practical ways to handle the situation and make it palatable whether you are forcing game chat for ranked or not.  The game devs and microsoft's OS team just need to be creative enough and give enough shits to make it happen.

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@@Apollo, I’m with you. I’d never want to do that for MCC or H5, bc game chat in both is so fucking bad. I’m talking about future games. It was fine in H2, H3 and Reach. I know it can be good enough to support this again.

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Also, if 343 had any idea what they're doing then we could mute players in the pre-game lobby like we could in the real Halo games. In H5 you have to mute the entire lobby because one idiot is blasting shitty music over the mic. In MCC, you can't mute found players in MM at all. No wonder no one uses game chat anymore.

 

 

I also think Reach had a good approach with the mute ban system. Unfortunately it didn't work correctly as everything was social people had to mute the entire enemy team in MLG, which caused tons of players to get mute banned. But I think people who regularly scream down the mic and/or play music over the mic should get some form of penalty, which would again make people more likely to use game chat.

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What Pyroteq said. I’ve been around for both. This is worse.

 

Just to be clear, I’m talking about forced game chat in ranked games. Nothing else. I love party chat and use it all the time. But let’s stop pretending that it’s anything less than a middle finger to your teammates in ranked games.

Forced ranked chat will do nothing but make me avoid that playlist, or just go to Discord, lol. I would rather not play than be forced to listen to, or talk with people I don't want to. Or better yet, get radio silence from likeminded people. Especially if I'm already in a party with other people. Solo opinion, entirely. But trying to force me to do something still won't make me do it. And for a game, I don't get why we're doing this. It's not that serious to where you need to remove a social aspect or force one. If people want to do it, they should have the choice. 

 

Ummm, exactly?

 

Since in H2 this wasn't an issue?

 

How the hell do you propose that new comers to XBL make new friends online when they can't even talk to others without jumping through hoops?

 

The experience for new Halo players is:

  • Join a game.
  • Get decimated by a group of 4 opponents that are all communicating while you have 3 team mates all in separate parties.
  • Repeat
  • Get frustrated
  • Quit the game and uninstall
Then people wonder why Halo is dying.

 

Your solution is that players shouldn't be allowed to search solo because you need to work as a group to win... Except there's literally nothing that prevents a group of randoms from communicating with each other and working together... In fact, it happens all the time. I've played plenty of scrims with people I've never played with before and we've communicated just fine. It's not like someone needs to be your best buddy to understand what "rockets on my X" means.

 

I'm struggling to see your point. You'd rather people only ever interact with people they personally know?

 

I've been playing online games for 2 decades at this point and all the evidence I've seen would suggest that all games have far better communities when players can interact with each other, which massively boosts the longevity of a game. The fact that Halo's popularity has dropped off like a cliff helps support my claim.

 

Generally people play a game for the game play but they STAY for the community.

I didn't say people shouldn't be allowed to search solo, only that they should know what to expect when they're not playing with a team against enemies in what is probably going to be a sweaty game based on teamshot, lol. You basically shoot yourself in the foot there. And no, I didn't say I'd rather people only interact with others they know. I said I would. And said that others, if they want to talk, have the means to, and that if they don't want to, shouldn't be forced to. 

 

You're acting like there's absolutely no means of communication, AND that Halo's popularity dropped off a cliff mainly due to said lack of communication, when that's simply not the case. People didn't drop Halo 45, and MCC because they couldn't talk in the pregame lobbies with randies. Your "evidence" is anecdotal at best. 

 

And all this comes to a head with your "newbie's experience". You could fix that problem by implementing good party restrictions that don't put them against people who're full squadding. The issue is the fact they get their teeth kicked in unfairly, not the fact they're not socializing while they're doing it. They're getting frustrated because they're being stomped 9 ways to Sunday. A new player isn't gonna be one that's hardcore into calling out, knowing map spawns, spawn times, shot counts, etc. And some people, the majority, actually, don't care to know it, and never will. They literally just wanna auto pilot and shoot shit, and if stuff doesn't go their way, they quit, which would happen if it was one person stomping them, or four, with, or without a party. Casual complex. It has nothing to do with parties, just poor matchmaking design in the case of Halo 5 specifically.

 

In the end, I propose people use other viable means to become friends. I've gotten many a message from people just talking with me. It takes some effort to write, oh no, but it works. And if people wanna play and talk, they invite me to a game and party/message me and ask if I wanna play. There is NOTHING stopping people from becoming friends. At all. People have the means to do it, it's just about the amount of effort you put into it, lol. It's not a giant hoop to jump through. And if it somehow is, one must be supremely lazy, lmao. Party chat didn't kill Halo, Halo being shit to Halo fans killed Halo.

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I know you guys like to live in the past and pine endlessly for your rose-tinted vision of "classic Halo," but the world has changed, online communication options have expanded, and no one gives a fuck about Halo match-making ranks. I know you haven't moved on from the 2004 glory days, but the vast majority of the kids still taking console FPS games seriously are feeing their game audio through a PC interface and talking to their party of 4 through Discord. The remaining population doesn't give a shit about getting call-outs from every single random they get matched with

 

All you're trying to do is somehow force people to take ranked solo queue as seriously as you like to think you do by forcing them to mute your endless whining in voice chat instead of forming a party with 3 other people who want to sweat their nuts off as much as you do BEFORE you search. Most people just want to play some ranked with a friend or two and aren't planning on putting their Gold 4 on their resume.

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The game could have a custom search parameter like “Prefer Teammates in Gamechat”.

 

I understand why there’s all this talk about game chat in ranked but it just seems ironic that SOCIAL Slayer has become quite the opposite.

 

I may not change your mind, but maybe I can lessen your hate:https://youtu.be/dQBoKH3cmWw

Good video. What do you think would need to change about CE’s spawn system to better accommodate larger playercounts like 4v4 and 8v8?

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I agree with Pyrotec's first statement saying that it ruined gaming communities compared to when we didn't have Party Chat.  I think its something you had to experience back then. I'm not saying its completely impossible to find full lobbies with mics nowadays but from 2002-2005 or whenever party chats came lobbies and communities as a whole were much better. I can name a ton of different games where we played made-up modes with honor rules. Anyone who joined should be able to hear the rules whether through the mic or tv and it worked pretty well. Trying to get people to follow rules when they aren't in the chat (at a social level) is impossible. It seems like now we avoid that problem as a whole because these made up modes are now actual playlists, like zombies from Halo or Cat n Mouse from Forza. Sending messages post or mid game really isn't an effective way of communicating unless its a passing comment. Hell, I remember adding people in Halo 2 just because they were hilarious and isn't something I would really get through a single message or text.

 

It's a trade-off of having more options today to talk to others vs forcing everyone in the game to be able to hear each other. I would be fine forcing people out of chat for ranked game types and allowing them to stay in for social. If you play solo and don't want to talk, at least listen for the call outs. For custom games or something, I wouldn't mind having a toggle switch, or some search tags for the browser forcing mics or looking for players with mics. I think Overwatch's group finder is a great way of bringing competitive people together.

 

Add party restrictions, force game chat for ranked, allow party chat for social, allow parameters to search for mics or host customs preferring mics, add an in-depth group finder. That's definitely a good start for me and its possible to do other stuff, like a spotting feature or allowing a mix of game chat audio to come through in parties (not that fond of these)

 

Nothing will ever come close to what @@Jake Teh Nub is talking about. No matter what they said it was 10x better because it'd get cut off but you could just HEAR the frustration. Same goes for when you killed a person and you could trash talk them real fast and they couldn't do anything but listen to you until they respawned.

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The game could have a custom search parameter like “Prefer Teammates in Gamechat”.

 

I understand why there’s all this talk about game chat in ranked but it just seems ironic that SOCIAL Slayer has become quite the opposite.

 

 

Good video. What do you think would need to change about CE’s spawn system to better accommodate larger playercounts like 4v4 and 8v8?

The short and easy answer would be to use a different system for 2v2 than for every other player count. I think H3 had a really nice system for everything else.

 

But if I was bound to using one system for both, I’d experiment with spawning players at the most equidistant spawn point to all living players. So in a 3v3 on Hang Em, if I have a teammate on red tower and another at blue magnum, I’m gonna spawn at red shotty every time. I’d also change the system to allow a random spawn if only one teammate is on a random instead of requiring all teammates to be on one. Then I would reduce the number of random zones, place them thoughtfully instead of accidentally, and mark them visually. I think that would still preserve the “surround and contain: spread out or die” meta of H1 4v4, it would eliminate the randomness of which teammate you’re spawning on, it would make everyone accounatable for giving decent spawns, and it would still allow for some much needed breaks in a bad spawn cycle.

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@@Hard Way

 

I think forced spawns could work even better in games with higher player counts. Kinda like a remote spawn beacon that all players could use.

 

There could even be forced spawns that require multiple teammates to pull off, like if Player A stands a Spot A and Player B stands at Spot B then Player C will respawn at a spot that is otherwise unavailable. It keeps the CE aspect of thinking about your teammates spawns but requires coordination to pull off with a potentially greater reward.

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