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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Ahh, see I was under the impression CE was patched. To be fair I didn’t read the patch notes.

 

That explains a lot. I’ll stay away from it until next update. Shitty of them to put it on the back burner. Halo 3 is the worst of the OG Halos. Fix the good ones first.

 

Given the shitty reputation that MCC has, it makes sense from a business and play base standpoint to focus on Halo 3 first, and im fine with that.  As long as they fix CE and 2.  Hit detection for both games needs work.  And MY LORD the Halo 2 melees and spawns (especially initial spawns) are so fucked up.

 

Why not? Why are your subjective preferences superior to theirs? 

I hate this idea that "everybody's opinion counts" or "every preference is just as valid as every other one".  If you have never thought objectively about why you like or dont like a  game/gametype/weapon etc then you don't really know.  Anybody who has actually gone through that exercise realizes that starting with a weapon that can actually do something is better.  If you aren't going to truly understand the cause and effect, which people do in this argument all the time, i'm not going to take your opinions or preferences seriously.

 

The developers do absolutely nothing to help with this perception either. precision starts and no radar are "hardcore" while smg starts and radar are "social".  Or, even worse, STILL RANKED.

 

Here is the thing, the reason that casual players don't want BR starts really boils down to one thing that for some reason i rarely ever see mentioned in this conversation (Probably because the players with this problem don't want to admit it/dont frequent here):  Their aim sucks, making using precision weapons much harder and not fun for them.  I actually find this argument convincing, and it's literally the ONLY one i have heard that makes me think, "ok maybe there is legitimately an argument to be made that for SOME people, SMG/AR starts are the way to go." Its the only argument that isn't a misappropriation of cause and effect. Not everybody wants to be or can be good.  And frankly, thats fine.  Give them a playlist they can enjoy, but don't mix that shit in with everything else.  Label it properly and edit the weapons on the map properly.  If you insist on having a grab-bag "sometimes precision starts sometimes not" playlist, FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK, edit the weapons on the map to minimize the chance of "well they got all the BRs so now we are just going to get spawn killed for the next 8 minutes.  Let me go take a shit" occurrences. 

 

A proper ranking and matchmaking system can help here, but even playing against other bad players you can still "feel" if your not hitting anything.  Bad players that just want to hold forward and spray should be able to do so, but please PLEASE stop letting that shit infect other playlists and STOP designing the game around making those players feel welcome everywhere. Its never going to happen.  And if Halo 5 is any indication, making weapons easier and giving players "cool shit to do" just makes the game feel super sweaty all the goddamn time, so knock that shit off too.

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Because they don't actually reset the ranks. They just hide them until your placements are done, MMR is still the same.

 

I think that it is a good thing. Less good players who are traveling from bottom to top. We lesser skilled can play better games without them.

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Post on stuff.

See, the thing is, you could accomplish all of this by giving players the motion tracker. Literally, if you're gonna go un-competitive for social stuff (Dumb, IMO), then simply add the tracker, keep the utility, and your problem's solved. Kids can see people waddling around the map and can plan accordingly with a strong weapon to boot. They may actually learn something too, over just being catered to by being given a spray weapon under the guise of "it's just social, chill out". I don't think everyone is born to be the best at a game, but I refuse to think that would should just stagnate, and not attempt to move past a basic understanding of the game, lol.

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See, the thing is, you could accomplish all of this by giving players the motion tracker. Literally, if you're gonna go un-competitive for social stuff (Dumb, IMO), then simply add the tracker, keep the utility, and your problem's solved. Kids can see people waddling around the map and can plan accordingly with a strong weapon to boot. They may actually learn something too, over just being catered to by being given a spray weapon under the guise of "it's just social, chill out". I don't think everyone is born to be the best at a game, but I refuse to think that would should just stagnate, and not attempt to move past a basic understanding of the game, lol.

Or you could design a social starting weapon that fulfills both the role of a closer range spray and pray automatic and a longer range precision weapon so that beginners can still have fun while more advanced players can demonstrate skill.

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Just had the sweatiest BTB snipers match. Thank lord jibbers it was first to 50 and not 100. At least 4 players on each team including me are dehydrated from all that sweating.

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The aiming is so messed up, diagonals feel hyper-sensitive. I know 343 have it listed as a known issue but its so frustrating. 

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Or you could design a social starting weapon that fulfills both the role of a closer range spray and pray automatic and a longer range precision weapon so that beginners can still have fun while more advanced players can demonstrate skill.

Why spend resources designing a new weapon (which may or may not work), over using tested and proven mechanics already in game? Seems like a waste.

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If Halo 2 shipped with a non-hitscan 3-shot BR with dramatically less aim assist as its starting weapon in default gametypes, nobody on the casual side of the aisle would be complaining about it sapping the fun out of the experience. Their problem is with "being told what to do". Pissants. 

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The aiming is so messed up, diagonals feel hyper-sensitive. I know 343 have it listed as a known issue but its so frustrating. 

 

Throughout the franchise a common theme has been lower latency will produce faster sensitivity. I've been real lucky with how consistent each host/server has been so I think that plays a big part. 

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Yes, but we also can't design a game around the nebulous concept of "fun," because, as you've pointed out, that means different things to different people. You first need to establish what the objective is; in this case, I think we can all agree that the objective, even in Social Slayer, should be to provide a fair, balanced gameplay experience. Once you define that as the objective, it is not longer subjective to say that AR/SMG starts are objectively worse. They are. It's not a debate. This isn't about "competitive vs. casual," it's about making the game play in the most fair way to all players. Saying "we're designing this for fun!" is a lazy way to avoid taking responsibility for failing to actually deliver what you hoped to deliver.

 

Just because players are "having fun" in Social Slayer does not mean the experience could not be even more fun with proper settings. A lot of players "have fun" by griefing teammates. A lot of players "have fun" by quitting early. Should we incorporate that into our game? Your argument is essentially "this is the way it should be because that's what Bungie said." We should instead be focusing on the question of "what makes the game play in the most fair, balanced way possible." People anchor their experiences too much on the original, shitty experience that Bungie designed rather than opening themselves up to even better experiences. This isn't unique to Halo or even video games, it's just a simple human bias. 

 

Look at something like Smash. There's no doubt that items in Smash make the game less fair and balanced. They're extraordinarily luck based and the right item at the right time can turn the tide of a match. Yet, tons of people prefer them to the objectively more competitive, fair, and balanced playset of no items. They *like* the randomness and chaos that items provide, because they aren't looking for the most fair or balanced game mode.

 

The same applies to Halo (which at its core is a party game that could just have easily been designed by Nintendo). SMG starts are undoubtedly worse, but tons of people prefer them because it offers them more variety in their playstyle (not just "because their aim sucks," which is an unfair attempt at trivializing an uncomfortable opposing viewpoint). I don't agree with the viewpoint, but I can't deny their numbers, and I don't see a reason to deny them what they want, especially when we already have a system designed to solve this very problem. Offering a variety of playlists should reasonably allow most every one to be somewhat happy. If you don't like casual settings, just play a different playlist. The idea of competitive players trying to dominate the *social* playlist is just as repugnant to me as casual players trying to decide settings for Hardcore. We have like 10 playlists already in MCC. I think two of them don't have BR starts, H3 Arena and Social Slayer (H2 Arena accidentally has one gametype with SMG starts which will be fixed). Play one of the others if it annoys you this much.

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Where are warlock slayer and sanc ctf? And sanc slayer doesnt even have snipes on it.

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No bullshit... I get the issues that still remain, and I should have to state them here again (read last 3 days) but the fact that I can get a game, in damn near any playlist in 30 secs is fucking game breaking for me.

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The same applies to Halo (which at its core is a party game that could just have easily been designed by Nintendo). SMG starts are undoubtedly worse, but tons of people prefer them because it offers them more variety in their playstyle (not just "because their aim sucks," which is an unfair attempt at trivializing an uncomfortable opposing viewpoint). I don't agree with the viewpoint, but I can't deny their numbers, and I don't see a reason to deny them what they want, especially when we already have a system designed to solve this very problem. Offering a variety of playlists should reasonably allow most every one to be somewhat happy. If you don't like casual settings, just play a different playlist. The idea of competitive players trying to dominate the *social* playlist is just as repugnant to me as casual players trying to decide settings for Hardcore. We have like 10 playlists already in MCC. I think two of them don't have BR starts, H3 Arena and Social Slayer (H2 Arena accidentally has one gametype with SMG starts which will be fixed). Play one of the others if it annoys you this much.

Exceeeept that argument goes out the window when you realize how much SMG starts actually force players to slow down and hold corners and angles, especially when they don't get pickups, because they can't contest anything, or play against anyone. "Playstyle variety" makes no sense there, and if anything, makes more sense with Halo 5's situation where you began with the AR and Magnum and had a shitton of other viable pickups on top of your "fine" utility on launch. Halo 5 was obnoxious, but the PERFECT fit for a "tons of pickups suit my playstyle" argument.

 

I'd make an argument for denial when their argument for the situation makes no sense.

 

I also do find the connotation of "social" being something players with a competitive mindset don't touch to be poor. It's social. Not "only shitty players who can't properly play at any skillful level". Anyone can play it. It's good for a quick play. I don't get why comp minded players talking about social lists is somehow bad, lol. Whereas the inverse (Bad players trying to decide comp lists) can actually be a detriment if someone doesn't understand gameplay and what makes it work in Halo. Which we also seemingly saw with Halo 5's first year of Arena if official B-Roll is anything to go off of.

 

Aaaaaaand the argument of "just play something else" is also flawed when it doesn't eliminate a problem, lol. It's ignoring an issue, not fixing it.

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I can't tell if the issue is the aiming, the netcode, or both. So many of my battles have gone like this:

 

1. Shoot directly at person. Shots don't connect.

2. Attempt to modify my aim. End up overcorrecting.

3. Lose the battle, with no idea why.

 

And this happens on CE, H2, and H3. H2A and H4 (ironically the only 343-made games) don't seem to have this problem. Am I crazy?

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So are party/rank restrictions really not working? Also I gotta disagree w everyone crying about sniper/obj in team arena. The whole fuckin point of that playlist is to put all the gametypes that aren't in the hardcore playlist. I would take it a step further and combine the two playlists anyway to add btb or dubs.

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If Halo 2 shipped with a non-hitscan 3-shot BR with dramatically less aim assist as its starting weapon in default gametypes, nobody on the casual side of the aisle would be complaining about it sapping the fun out of the experience. Their problem is with "being told what to do". Pissants. 

 

100% true. If Halo 2 shipped with 100% BR starts we would never ever hear it being an issue. Cairo Station, Outskirts and Metropolis you start with a BR. If team slayer was by default BR, it would never be an argument. But because it wasn't, it's apparently an issue now.

 

For some reason people don't like spawning with a weapon that can shoot people more than 0.0000000001m away, they'd rather get spawn slapped by someone who picked one up.

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343 intern:  Hey guys, for CE I'm going to make the opposing team have red names, remove the ability to vote on maps, remove the ability to see the ranks of people pre-game, remove pre-game chat, and keep ranks meaningless.  But I'll add post game chat with no indicator on who's talking....

 

343 fails @ life.

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I finished my session last night in Social Slayer with about 3 back to back games of Halo 3 with AR/Mag starts and one AFK on my team in each of them. Suicide was on the table but I doubt my untimely death would have brought me peace.

 

You cannot play worse Halo than that. BR starts in Halo 3 is not optional.

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Oh boy I forgot how horrendous the bullet magnetism is in Halo 2A. It really compounds the latency issues my word.

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Getting a lot of d/c in H1. 4 tonight at random points of various games. I know its not my connection as the wife is streaming various apps with no issue. Called spectrum and assured everything running fine. Was not an issue for me pre-patch. Looking forward to the H1 patch, this build is still broken. H2 feels much better post-patch.

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The playlists are damn near perfect. We can literally play what we want.

 

Correction... You can queue up for what you want.

 

Whether or not you actually find a game is another question.

 

Why does the game need to cater to literally every possible game combination at the expense of faster and more accurate match making just because some players don't like a certain game type?

 

This game doesn't have the population to support this many playlists. That's a fact. A month from now you'll struggle to find games in most playlists off peak, I guarantee it.

 

Custom games exist for a reason. You don't see Counter Strike letting players queue up for surf maps.

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The playlists are damn near perfect. We can literally play what we want.

I've been waiting for no-grenade TS on Backwash, and it's finally here. Kreygasm

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