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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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The Reach dmr had spread really? in v7 damn must of never noticed it. It definitely wasnt  game changer like it was in h3. 

Like anyone can play h3 online or lan and notice the spread. But in reach you must of been paying very close attention to detail. 

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Also my argument is that you shouldn’t be rewarded for spamming the shit out of your gun. Pacing is a skillful mechanic. 

 

Sure, finding the correct cadence can be considered a skill. However, the real issues arise on the other side of the equation.

 

Randomness will always favor the less skilled player or the player who is at some other disadvantage. Let's evaluate how random spread due to spamming the trigger is a bad mechanic. Consider an encounter between two players; player A and player B. Player A is a better player than Player B, and Player B knows it. In any encounter, it is better for player B to spam their trigger and bring as much randomness into the equation as possible. Sure, they won't win all the time, but they will win some of the time due to sheer randomness. They are firing more rounds in a shorter amount of time in a random pattern, and they will get lucky a certain amount of the time. It's in player A's best interest to not spam; player A knows they will win most gunfights based on their skill, so they will pace their shots. However, since player B can bring randomness into the equation by spamming, player A's reliance on "pacing skill" actually puts them at a disadvantage. Player A can do nothing to prevent player B from bringing randomness into the encounter, and player A will lose gunfights because of that randomness. 

 

The same evaluation holds true of players of equal skill; when one player gets down a shot or two, it's always in their best interest to spam and hope to get lucky. Pacing won't do them any good at that point, so they bring randomness into the equation. 

 

Someone will always get rewarded for spamming the shit out of their gun unless you eliminate the randomness. 

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Snip

 

I agree a lot with your post. I have played very little H3 V8 (I don't even think I've played every gametype), but Reach V7 being solid for the most part I strongly agree with.

 

I know you're a big Halo 1 fan, what's your thoughts on 4v4 Halo 1 and how do you compare it with the other titles? While I enjoy 4v4 in H1, I like the spawn system of the other games for 4v4 more, and I like it enough where I would put the other games above Halo 1 for 4v4 based on the spawn system alone especially if I want a nerdy try hard night. But I would love to hear your thoughts.

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I agree a lot with your post. I have played very little H3 V8 (I don't even think I've played every gametype), but Reach V7 being solid for the most part I strongly agree with.

 

I know you're a big Halo 1 fan, what's your thoughts on 4v4 Halo 1 and how do you compare it with the other titles? While I enjoy 4v4 in H1, I like the spawn system of the other games for 4v4 more, and I like it enough where I would put the other games above Halo 1 for 4v4 based on the spawn system alone especially if I want a nerdy try hard night. But I would love to hear your thoughts.

Oh it’s definitely inferior to its successors if you’re playing for money or anything more than just fun. I just don’t think it deserves to be written off as worthless like I see so often. I think it suffers more from map/gametype limitations than it does from the spawn system tbh. The spawn system becomes a “surround and contain” meta once everyone is aware of how it works and how to play around it, and it becomes absolutely vital that your team spread out off spawn as quickly as possible. Personally, I don’t think that’s that bad, so long as everyone knows to actually do it, which is usually the problem. It’s alleviated further in NHE because you can play to 100, and the score limit actually allows for some of those spawn traps to play out. Honestly, if we could give random spawns with just one living teammate standing on the random instead of ALL living teammates standing on a random, I think it’d be perfectly fine.

 

The real limitations with 4v4 come from things like:

Cant play to 100 kills in default H1

No UI when your flag is out

Autopickup

No indication if enemy is holding ball

1 minute hills, random hills, no “contested hill” option where neither team can get time if both teams are in, lack of every man counts hill scoring, lack of hud indicator when enemy has hill

 

Derelict’s weapon set for CTF (2 rocks 2 snipe 2 camo)

Lack of viable symmetricals (alleviated by Zero Hour and Doubletake)

Wizard’s spawns

Hang Em and Chill Out’s hill locations and dimensions

THE BALL TAKING 30 SECONDS TO RESET IF IT GOES OFF

Derelict’s lack of orientation aid making it hard for newer players to have fun on one of the most versatile 4v4 maps in the game

 

There’s probably more that I’m forgetting, but H1 4v4 also has some super unique and fun experiences that I would put toe to toe with any other 4v4 gametype throughout Halo. If you ever get to do a 4v4 LAN with modded boxes, make sure to play these because they’re fun as hell:

 

TS on any map to 100. The spawning meta is way more tolerable with twice the deaths to play with.

Chill Out Oddball,

Derelict Oddball and KotH (and CTF set to “no sniping”...trust me)

Prisoner Oddball,

Battle Creek KotH and CTF,

Wizard Oddball and “Pistols Only” CTF with the new modded 7sec respawn

Longest CTF

Dammy KotH and Reverse Tag

Rat Race KotH

Outbound KotH and Reverse Tag

Zero Hour KotH, Ball and CTF

Imminent KotH and Reverse Tag

Hotbox KotH and Ball

Exhibit KotH and Ball

Decidia KotH and Ball

Redshift KotH and Reverse Tag

Doubletake CTF

Atlas KotH and Reverse Tag

 

There’s probably gametypes I’m forgetting, but you get the idea. If you have a modded box, there is no shortage of EXCELLENT gametypes. It’s just that the map pool is heavily assymetrical, so you’ll be playing a lot of KotH and Ball. Luckily, Reverse Tag is an awesome substitute for Ball on maps with an abyss. There’s also other fun gametypes that are only in H1 like Kill in Order and Race (rally rules only, or it’s totally dumb). For Race with Rally rules, you can set the scoring to “Max” instead of “Sum”, and it will only count your leading scorer’s points, which creates a kind of escort mission dynamic to it which can be really fun.

 

Anyone that says H1 4v4 can’t be fun is full of shit.

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I feel like I'm the only person that likes halo 1 4v4, but its not easy to play logistically and people would obviously rather play 2v2s. There used to be the playlist and sometimes 8s lobbies on MCC but other than that no one really was interested. Pretty much agree with everything Hard Way said, slayer kind of sucks and KOTH's random rotations don't help. Most of the bigger segmented maps (Derelict, Creek and Damnation come to mind) can be fun as you have room to breathe

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Holy shit, this is nuts.

Fixing H2 spawns is gonna be cool

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>literally the only CE map I don't want to play in TS is Longest

>the only time people pick CE is Longest

 

Nope lets pick H3 AR starts when something good for 4v4 like Derelict or Battle Creek shows up.

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can anyone edit the text out of that splash screen for a wallpaper?

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"Another area Sean has been tinkering with on the side is working on the pipeline and process to bring Halo Custom Edition maps into MCC." YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-3

 

Lots of good stuff on the way

It appears that having Sean Cooper working on this project is going to pay huge dividends for H1 and H2 fans. Massive kudos to 343/MS for bringing such a passionate, experienced, and talented engineer onto the MCC team. For those who don't know, here is Cooper's bio (https://www.linkedin.com/in/seancooper1).

 

I am really interested to know which bugs are on the P1 and P2 list, because aside from "Networking and Matchmaking improvements," the bugs they are able to squash will have the biggest impact in how much this next update will improve MCC's play experience.

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"Another area Sean has been tinkering with on the side is working on the pipeline and process to bring Halo Custom Edition maps into MCC." YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

https://www.halowaypoint.com/en-us/news/mcc-development-update-3

 

Lots of good stuff on the way

I put that in my survey! 

 

"what do you want from the mcc"

 

It would be really cool if you could make maps on halo pc then download them to your xbox one to play on halo CE since the map files are compatible. 

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I do hope that installed progress bar is hideable, texture streaming support is pretty dope, faster loading times will especially benefit H2A which I avoided due to them(and I found jumping to feel weird in it,) also who ported H2 to Vista? Geesh.

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  • Tickrates – A single update of a game simulation is known as a "tick." The rate at which the simulation is run on a server is referred often to as the server's tickrate; this is essentially the server equivalent of a client's frame rate, absent any rendering system. When the Vista port was created for Halo 2, the “tickrate” was updated from 30 to 60, which resulted in the fire rate of some weapons inadvertently changing. There are also some similar oddities that have been discovered with AI fire rates that appears to be linked to the shift from 30hz to 60hz. Sean has been working on digging into this and identifying areas where this can be adjusted to more accurately replicate the original Xbox experience. This is ongoing but eventually is an area where the team will definitely want community feedback once this work hits a public flight build.  

Hopefully they can get the timing of the doubleshot/rrbx back to OG and not just using the fire rate mod like vistas.

Glad Dersky and co reached out to us!

 

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  • Tickrates – A single update of a game simulation is known as a "tick." The rate at which the simulation is run on a server is referred often to as the server's tickrate; this is essentially the server equivalent of a client's frame rate, absent any rendering system. When the Vista port was created for Halo 2, the “tickrate” was updated from 30 to 60, which resulted in the fire rate of some weapons inadvertently changing. There are also some similar oddities that have been discovered with AI fire rates that appears to be linked to the shift from 30hz to 60hz. Sean has been working on digging into this and identifying areas where this can be adjusted to more accurately replicate the original Xbox experience. This is ongoing but eventually is an area where the team will definitely want community feedback once this work hits a public flight build.  

Hopefully they can get the timing of the doubleshot/rrbx back to OG and not just using the fire rate mod like vistas.

 

is h2x not good enough? 

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is h2x not good enough? 

Its solid and I'll be glad if they put that in MCC. But the timing(you have to press the trigger twice as fast) of doubleshots is not the same in vista as in OG.

The vista guys are working to try and get it like og and it would fix bouncing too! I tested what they were working on and the rendering was 60 fps standing still but when you'd move it felt like 30 fps and had the old timing/bounces.

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New title screen looks nice but none of this (for me anyway) matters one bit. Unless they finally decide to put the OG halo 2 instead of the vista port.

"Sean has been working on adjustments to restore the Halo 2 spawning code back to how it worked in the original game. Originally, in MCC, Halo 2 spawning was modified to heavily weight players to respawn by teammates / at team spawns, which is something a portion of the community (particularly the Halo 2 Vista community) has given a lot of feedback around. While it seems minor, it’s just another example of the focus the team has on trying to get all of MCC’s titles to play and feel as close to the original console games as possible."

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"Sean has been working on adjustments to restore the Halo 2 spawning code back to how it worked in the original game. Originally, in MCC, Halo 2 spawning was modified to heavily weight players to respawn by teammates / at team spawns, which is something a portion of the community (particularly the Halo 2 Vista community) has given a lot of feedback around. While it seems minor, it’s just another example of the focus the team has on trying to get all of MCC’s titles to play and feel as close to the original console games as possible."

 

Yeah, i saw that entire part already & i still won't believe anything until i see some actual changes. They already Bullshitted everyone on release with the whole "Halo 2 will be the original H2 from 2004 xbox blah blah" & it was just the vista one. So not holding my breath but we'll see how the fuck up this time.

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Custom Edition maps sounds awesome, but they should take it one step further;

 

Visible Timer.

I agree with you 100%, but first I'd settle for original gun sounds, and shooting mechanics that are as close to OG as possible. Given the fact that they are talking about adding Custom Edition maps, a timer seems all but a forgone conclusion, but I guess we will see.

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I'm pretty everyone saw it coming that visual upgrades would be one of the first updates, but its still upsetting that it is one of the first updates.

We want the game to work before we care how pretty it looks.

 

Still progress is a plus in my book. The UI (mock up?) looks a lot better. Vertical > Horizontal any day.

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