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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Biggest issue with the Halo 1 scorpion is the *insane* amount of spread on the main cannon. It kept the weapon in check at long range so you couldn't cross map people, but even at mid-range the cannon shot could just take off wide right and airball on you and then you'd be killed by a ghost or whatever (add in Halo PC lag and holy shit). Combine that with the exposed driver seat and the Halo 1 tank was reduced to being stationery artillery or a distraction while your team is trying to pull a flag or recover one.

 

Halo really needs the chopper back. That thing had such good interplay with the warthog - better than the warthog/ghost dynamic in any other game.

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I'm fully aware of the many excuses people have for overpowered, low effort garbage that makes them feel cool in Halo games. Change is hard, I know. It's a consistent trend.

 

I pretty much agree with what Beast said, though. If you want to talk about the real problem vehicles (scorpion, wraith, banshee, ghost, gauss hog, mantis, etc) that dominate maps, then I would suggest that they fundamentally require a different kind of game to be much more than a low effort power fantasy for kids who normally go double negative on foot. The biggest problem is that Halo vehicles are and always have been trivially easy to use.

I've never seen someome so deadset on removing casual elements from Halo in a day and age where casual gameplay is more important than competitive gameplay for a gameplays growth.

 

Today, you need the Twitch streams, the YouTube clips, the crazy gameplay, the endless possibilities, the buzz between young kids (casuals), the near limitless variability between games, etc.

 

I don't know why removing fun for the biggest part of Halos fanbase is an actual thought by members of this community sometimes. Competitive needs casual, not the other way around. I honestly dont know what year you guys are stuck in sometimes.

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I've never seen someome so deadset on removing casual elements from Halo in a day and age where casual gameplay is more important than competitive gameplay for a gameplays growth.

 

Today, you need the Twitch streams, the YouTube clips, the crazy gameplay, the endless possibilities, the buzz between young kids (casuals), the near limitless variability between games, etc.

 

I don't know why removing fun for the biggest part of Halos fanbase is an actual thought by members of this community sometimes. Competitive needs casual, not the other way around. I honestly dont know what year you guys are stuck in sometimes.

Every game that is extremely popular is easy to get into (or free) and hard to master. Lowering the skill ceiling is not a good way to make the game popular.

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I've never seen someome so deadset on removing casual elements from Halo in a day and age where casual gameplay is more important than competitive gameplay for a gameplays growth.

 

Today, you need the Twitch streams, the YouTube clips, the crazy gameplay, the endless possibilities, the buzz between young kids (casuals), the near limitless variability between games, etc.

 

I don't know why removing fun for the biggest part of Halos fanbase is an actual thought by members of this community sometimes. Competitive needs casual, not the other way around. I honestly dont know what year you guys are stuck in sometimes.

 

I couldn't give less of a shit about appealing to casuals because that's what the vast majority of AAA games do. Just look at brainless, random casual games like Fortnite and you can see exactly what's popular. That's what casual gamers want. Low effort gameplay that makes them feel awesome as they drool into the bag of cheerios their mom prepped for them in the morning. These people care more about skins and progression systems than they do intellectually stimulating gameplay and they always will. Thank God Valve was smart enough to exploit that while still making a good game with CS:GO. Fingers crossed that they don't fuck that up by cracking down on gambling and skin sales.

 

At a certain point, I stopped really caring about the appeal of braindead gameplay. I don't care about Halo's existing casual player base. At all. I'm not talking about what would create growth for Halo. I'm talking about what I would actually enjoy. Those two things are often VERY different. Imagine a Halo game with more than one tolerable playlist. That's the dream.

 

This is a hypothetical discussion anyway. We all know there is no way vehicles would ever be removed from BTB or even pared back, they probably won't be significantly overhauled at any point, and there's a remote chance at best that a no vehicle or vehicle light playlist would even happen (temporary or otherwise). What we will likely get is a pumped up super Warzone that dials up all of the awfulness even further because it was the most popular/profitable game mode in Halo 5 by far, despite being an objectively broken, poorly designed mess on a fundamental level. And these same silver-rank equivalent kids will still complain that the Banshee is underpowered as they go 50-4.

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I've never seen someome so deadset on removing casual elements from Halo in a day and age where casual gameplay is more important than competitive gameplay for a gameplays growth.

 

Today, you need the Twitch streams, the YouTube clips, the crazy gameplay, the endless possibilities, the buzz between young kids (casuals), the near limitless variability between games, etc.

 

I don't know why removing fun for the biggest part of Halos fanbase is an actual thought by members of this community sometimes. Competitive needs casual, not the other way around. I honestly dont know what year you guys are stuck in sometimes.

 

The "Halo needs to appeal to casuals" argument has been around for a solid decade by now. And the facts have remained the same throughout all these years and a couple of awful Halo games:

  • Casuals don't give a fuck how big the skill gap and skill ceiling of a game are. All they want is fun gameplay fair matchmaking and addictive progression systems (hint: we haven't had any of those three since H3).
  • One can make a game that is easy to get into without compromising skill gap (see Halo CE, CSGO, Rocket League, LoL etc.)
  • Dumbing down the game (and/or the integrity of the competitive settings) in order to attract more casuals has backfired three times in the history of Halo by now. I think it's time to stop.

All people want is a good game. This fucking stupid casuals vs competitive war is so backwards and achieves nothing besides giving the developer excuses to neglect both communities and get away with insane amounts of bullshit.

 

Yes, for Halo to be great again there needs to be more casual influx. But will this be achieved if we get another H4 with a compressed skill gap and fancy unlocks that "the casuals will love"? Hell no. If you want casual attention, get rid of the cancerous spartan abilities that artifically raise the skill floor. Fix the matchmaking so people don't get destroyed by to4 as solo players. Fix the aiming so people can actually get good at the game. Make a good and addictive ranking system like H3 that makes people want to get good at the game and hence transforms casuals into competitive players (I was one of those kids 10 years ago and so were probably many other people on this forum).

 

Making another "casual friendly" Halo with tons of aim assist, gimmicks and stupid unlocks will achieve exactly nothing and result in another H4/5: a game that satisfies neither community. Make a great game, the rest will follow, stop trying to pander to sub-communities.

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does anyon e know if there is an equivalent of halobugs.com for halo 2 or 3. i am curious what the major issues in those are. as of right now h2 and h3's problem for me when i played mcc was there seemed to be a lot more bloodshots and dropped shots than their original versions but i wanna see some concrete examples n explanations like insid did for h1

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I couldn't give less of a shit about appealing to casuals because that's what the vast majority of AAA games do. Just look at brainless, random casual games like Fortnite and you can see exactly what's popular. That's what casual gamers want. Low effort gameplay that makes them feel awesome as they drool into the bag of cheerios their mom prepped for them in the morning. These people care more about skins and progression systems than they do intellectually stimulating gameplay and they always will. Thank God Valve was smart enough to exploit that while still making a good game with CS:GO. Fingers crossed that they don't fuck that up by cracking down on gambling and skin sales.

 

At a certain point, I stopped really caring about the appeal of braindead gameplay. I don't care about Halo's existing casual player base. At all. I'm not talking about what would create growth for Halo. I'm talking about what I would actually enjoy. Those two things are often VERY different. Imagine a Halo game with more than one tolerable playlist. That's the dream.

 

This is a hypothetical discussion anyway. We all know there is no way vehicles would ever be removed from BTB or even pared back, they probably won't be significantly overhauled at any point, and there's a remote chance at best that a no vehicle or vehicle light playlist would even happen (temporary or otherwise). What we will likely get is a pumped up super Warzone that dials up all of the awfulness even further because it was the most popular/profitable game mode in Halo 5 by far, despite being an objectively broken, poorly designed mess on a fundamental level. And these same silver-rank equivalent kids will still complain that the Banshee is underpowered as they go 50-4.

If Fortnite is so "low effort" and "casual" you should stream it and makes some easy money since you're so good.
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does anyon e know if there is an equivalent of halobugs.com for halo 2 or 3. i am curious what the major issues in those are. as of right now h2 and h3's problem for me when i played mcc was there seemed to be a lot more bloodshots and dropped shots than their original versions but i wanna see some concrete examples n explanations like insid did for h1

it was posted in this thread. go to wildcherry's profile and look at his last posts

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it was posted in this thread. go to wildcherry's profile and look at his last posts

thank u big fella

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If Fortnite is so "low effort" and "casual" you should stream it and makes some easy money since you're so good.

 

It's literally random, that doesn't mean there is no skill ceiling. That said, junior high kids are blatantly its target audience, so I'm not shocked you would jump to defend it. Your continuous state of butt hurt about statements of fact on internet forums is almost as amusing as your forum name is sad.

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It's literally random, that doesn't mean there is no skill ceiling. That said, junior high kids are blatantly its target audience, so I'm not shocked you would jump to defend it. Your continuous state of butt hurt about statements of fact on internet forums is almost as amusing as your forum name is sad.

Says the vitriolic poster who spends way too much time ranting about a "dead" game he hates. Sure my username is a joke that's why I fucking made it. But the fact you spend so much time posting here when it seems like you hate the majority of what we talk about on here is an even bigger one.
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It's literally random, that doesn't mean there is no skill ceiling. That said, junior high kids are blatantly its target audience, so I'm not shocked you would jump to defend it. Your continuous state of butt hurt about statements of fact on internet forums is almost as amusing as your forum name is sad.

it’s random because it’s a BR game, but still is a lot more consistent than pubg that’s for sure. Tbh fortnite has what made halo popular. Simplistic gameplay that’s easy to pick up, but hard to master. Halo reach implemented this system as well but bloom, no skill ranking, and AA killed it for people. Halo 4 was easy to pick up and easy to master, halo 5 not easy to pick up and not easy to master, but that’s because of one fatal flaw and that’s heavy aim. Most players could spend weeks off of halo 1-3 and play rather decently once we returned. But halo 5s heavy aim and overall aiming mechanics in general(the acceleration is really bad) make that impossible. It’s gameplay isn’t even that fun.

On a side note how would you improve halos competitive skill level? Don’t say remove aim assist we are playing a console game with controllers that’s ridiculous to ask for. Tbh I say halo 3 did aim assist levels right especially with its projectile system, though it be nice if h3 LAN felt similar to its online.

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I couldn't give less of a shit about appealing to casuals because that's what the vast majority of AAA games do. Just look at brainless, random casual games like Fortnite and you can see exactly what's popular. That's what casual gamers want. Low effort gameplay that makes them feel awesome as they drool into the bag of cheerios their mom prepped for them in the morning. These people care more about skins and progression systems than they do intellectually stimulating gameplay and they always will. Thank God Valve was smart enough to exploit that while still making a good game with CS:GO. Fingers crossed that they don't fuck that up by cracking down on gambling and skin sales.

 

At a certain point, I stopped really caring about the appeal of braindead gameplay. I don't care about Halo's existing casual player base. At all. I'm not talking about what would create growth for Halo. I'm talking about what I would actually enjoy. Those two things are often VERY different. Imagine a Halo game with more than one tolerable playlist. That's the dream.

 

This is a hypothetical discussion anyway. We all know there is no way vehicles would ever be removed from BTB or even pared back, they probably won't be significantly overhauled at any point, and there's a remote chance at best that a no vehicle or vehicle light playlist would even happen (temporary or otherwise). What we will likely get is a pumped up super Warzone that dials up all of the awfulness even further because it was the most popular/profitable game mode in Halo 5 by far, despite being an objectively broken, poorly designed mess on a fundamental level. And these same silver-rank equivalent kids will still complain that the Banshee is underpowered as they go 50-4.

“intellectually gameplay” what is it you mean by that? Something like counter strike? Seriously I’m quite curious what you mean?

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On a side note how would you improve halos competitive skill level? Don’t say remove aim assist we are playing a console game with controllers that’s ridiculous to ask for. Tbh I say halo 3 did aim assist levels right especially with its projectile system, though it be nice if h3 LAN felt similar to its online.

 

I would transition official competition to PC with no console assist mechanics whatsoever. For the console experience, minimal to no bullet magnetism moderately high aim assist/reticle friction, and an aiming system that isn't a complete mess would be a nice start. Faster perfect kill times (5-shot to 4-shot magnum). No default melee lunge/assist and a static unassisted lunge for melee-only weapons. No redundant weapons on competitive maps (i.e. 7 different precision rifle pick-ups). And maybe exploring more meaningful grenade utility (i.e. non-damage functionality), with significantly reduced damage output and radius (especially compared to Halo 5, in which grenades are basically nukes).

 

 

“intellectually gameplay” what is it you mean by that? Something like counter strike? Seriously I’m quite curious what you mean?

 

Games that require you to think in order to succeed. Games with a focus on consistent, controllable variables that good players can use to their advantage. Games that are not built around what I would consider the core tenants of casual gameplay: shallow variety, randomness, and constant meaningless positive feedback.

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Games that require you to think in order to succeed. Games with a focus on consistent, controllable variables that good players can use to their advantage. Games that are not built around what I would consider the core tenants of casual gameplay: shallow variety, randomness, and constant meaningless positive feedback.

 

 

To be honest, I don't even know what your take is on competitive Halo. From what I can tell, you feel Halo is dead, classic Halo is better and all console gaming is a joke. (including classic halo?) Yet, you seem to always be talking down to casuals from a competitive or an "ahem actually" stand point. Do you actually feel there is a version of Halo that lives up to whatever standards you have for "competitive gaming"?

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To be honest, I don't even know what your take is on competitive Halo. From what I can tell, you feel Halo is dead, classic Halo is better and all console gaming is a joke. (including classic halo?) Yet, you seem to always be talking down to casuals from a competitive or an "ahem actually" stand point. Do you actually feel there is a version of Halo that lives up to whatever standards you have for "competitive gaming"?

 

I have a fundamental problem with a "competitive" shooter that requires significant built-in mechanical handicaps to be playable, yes. So, basically, all console FPS games. That is a conclusion that I reached after I ran out of patience with Halo (H5 in particular) and revisited better games on PC. So, yes, in retrospect, I think Halo has always had plenty of issues as a competitive game, though it's hard to point to many of them consistently because the series changed so much with every single entry.

 

I also think that Halo has a lot of the building blocks for a really good competitive game and it has yet to reach its full potential in that respect. Weighing every possible change against the desires of AR starts aficionados, Team Duels tacticians, Grifball competitors, and BTB Banshee specialists is not productive.

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I have a fundamental problem with a "competitive" shooter that requires significant built-in mechanical handicaps to be playable, yes. So, basically, all console FPS games. That is a conclusion that I reached after I ran out of patience with Halo (H5 in particular) and revisited better games on PC. So, yes, in retrospect, I think Halo has always had plenty of issues as a competitive game, though it's hard to point to many of them consistently because the series changed so much with every single entry.

 

I also think that Halo has a lot of the building blocks for a really good competitive game and it has yet to reach its full potential in that respect. Weighing every possible change against the desires of AR starts aficionados, Team Duels tacticians, Grifball competitors, and BTB Banshee specialists is not productive.

 

 

If you are a fan of competitive gaming or "games that require you to think in order to succeed", Why not come to a Beach LAN? I'd make a suggestion for H2 or H3 but I don't know of events for those. I did hear a h2 one was in the works in Vegas.

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Ahhhh, the competitive edgelord phase. I remember going through this around 2011 or so. Vehicles are for noobs, grifball is for idiots, ARs are for children, anyone who doesn't play the game exactly the way I do is casual trash, etc etc...

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Ahhhh, the competitive edgelord phase. I remember going through this around 2011 or so. Vehicles are for noobs, grifball is for idiots, ARs are for children, anyone who doesn't play the game exactly the way I do is casual trash, etc etc...

I mean, you can break down while vehicles suck, why Grifball's literally mindless, how ARs are for people who need that handicap (Among other reasons, obviously) and how the way you play is better than someone else, making them figurative trash. I don't see how it's an edgelord phase when you can just acknowledge basic reality.

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All these posts, you would think then games fixed and there's something worth talking about.

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“intellectually gameplay” what is it you mean by that? Something like counter strike? Seriously I’m quite curious what you mean?

He just means something that makes you think.

 

I think Fortnite’s art style gives it a bad rep. It’s building and shooting mechanics are pretty good from what I’ve seen (I’ve barely played it). People tend to write it off as a kiddy game because it has bright colors I guess. I know for sure PUBG fans do that.

 

I think it’s hilarious when insecure PUBG guys talk shit about Fortnite like PUBG is a “man’s” game, when Fortnite has a much higher skill ceiling. Lol okay guy, snuggle up with your graphics blanket and keep ignoring gameplay. Whatever helps your ego.

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I think Fortnite’s art style gives it a bad rep. It’s building and shooting mechanics are pretty good from what I’ve seen (I’ve barely played it). People tend to write it off as a kiddy game because it has bright colors I guess. I know for sure PUBG fans do that.

Random spread's never fun and you're basically playing a menu simulator, provided you build like a pro on consoles.

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