Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

Vehicles already have 10x the health and mobility of a normal person. They have consistently been the most op part of halo games. They shouldn't be dealing tons of damage on top of that. I don't get it it's honestly like you guys aren't even playing the same game. The hornet on Avalanche is easily one of the most map breaking things I have ever seen.

 

Vehicles literally let you lock down entire parts of the map with little resistance. Even if they dealt 1/5 of the damage they do now they'd still be extremely useful. But nah they should do all that and more. Cuz why not.

ur just being a poopy head.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Vehicles already have 10x the health and mobility of a normal person. They have consistently been the most op part of halo games. They shouldn't be dealing tons of damage on top of that. I don't get it it's honestly like you guys aren't even playing the same game. The hornet on Avalanche is easily one of the most map breaking things I have ever seen.

 

Vehicles literally let you lock down entire parts of the map with little resistance. Even if they dealt 1/5 of the damage they do now they'd still be extremely useful. But nah they should do all that and more. Cuz why not.

It has a lot to do with how coordinated the teams are. Riddler was speaking from a lot of experience with high level full party BTB and Squad Battle, and how the game plays when everyone knows what they’re doing. In games like that, vehicles aren’t as dominant because the available counters are almost always in play, the team is workin together to take it down, and the vehicle typically has to be vulnerable to be effective. This is totally different in the average social game, where a certain vehicle is practically a free perfection. That’s why I feel that the vehicle’s health settings should change depending on the audience and team composition.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

It has a lot to do with how coordinated the teams are. Riddler was speaking from a lot of experience with high level full party BTB and Squad Battle, and how the game plays when everyone knows what they’re doing. In games like that, vehicles aren’t as dominant because the available counters are almost always in play, the team is workin together to take it down, and the vehicle typically has to be vulnerable to be effective. This is totally different in the average social game, where a certain vehicle is practically a free perfection. That’s why I feel that the vehicle’s health settings should change depending on the audience and team composition.

@@MATCLAN, @@TiberiusAudley, you guys wanna weigh in on this?

 

I totally fat thumbed the quote/edit button :(

Share this post


Link to post

The thing with vehicle balance in large scale games is that it frankly doesn't need to be very good.  The more players you have, the more stuff becomes a shitshow regardless, which for BTB is half the fun.

The balance really needs to just not be frustratingly bad. Which unfortunately the last couple games have failed at.  The vehicle physics also haven't been "fun" in a while.  Some of the most fun parts of H2 and H3 BTB were when crazy shit would happen to the vehicle while you were in it.  That all got lost somewhere along the way.

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I watched that H5 BTB tournament that Matclan casted and some dude lived for like 8 straight minutes with a wasp on Guillotine. And that's the vehicle people say is like "paper" lol. If you play defensive with a vehicle it can live for years. Go play Fracture and see how long it takes to kill a mantis. If you're half decent in a vehicle you can dominate even the best players in the game. Because they have a ton of health, mobility and damage. And "high level" btb is only as high level as the people that actually try super hard. And it's not THAT many people.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I'd be totally fine with certain guns other than the big ones doing extra "penetration" damage in vehicles. Like let's say it's halo 3, the br would do more damage than the AR. Maybe the spiker and needler could do the same in this scenario.

 

Or we could just use a CE like system where vehicle health and player health are one thing. Damage to the vehicle does damage to the player. Maybe give the player a little more health while in a vehicle but not too much.

Share this post


Link to post

Halo 5 BTB is a broken pile of ass just like everything else in Halo 5. Why would anyone use that as their measuring stick for BTB as a whole?

  • Upvote (+1) 2
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

I watched that H5 BTB tournament that Matclan casted and some dude lived for like 8 straight minutes with it on Guillotine. And that's the vehicle people say is like "paper" lol. If you play defensive with a vehicle it can live for years. Go play Fracture and see how long it takes to kill a mantis. If you're half decent in a vehicle you can dominate even the best players in the game. Because they have a ton of health, mobility and damage. And "high level" btb is only as high level as the people that actually try super hard. And it's not THAT many people.

 

Lul at citing H5 and then the fucking Mantis of all vehicles. Literally the worst form of cancer possible. Yes that thing just does not die and was clearly designed for Warzone. No one here is saying H4 or 5 have good vehicle balance. But in H2, H3 and to an extent Reach all had good vehicle balance, given that both teams kinda know what they're doing.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Lul at citing H5 and then the fucking Mantis of all vehicles. Literally the worst form of cancer possible. Yes that thing just does not die and was clearly designed for Warzone. No one here is saying H4 or 5 have good vehicle balance. But in H2, H3 and to an extent Reach all had good vehicle balance, given that both teams kinda know what they're doing.

And H3 Avalanche and Standoff show thats not true. People can live forever with them and even if "8 people can melt it" thats literally forgetting about the other 7 enemies on the map.
  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

HAHA.You need to control the SPLASER to take out the completely braindead, almost guaranteed kill machines that take practically no skill to use. IMPECCABLE balance. Such fun. It just wouldn't be FAIR if people could actually challenge vehicles without waiting for equally braindead weapons to spawn. Just think how many fewer sprees idiot savant Banshee GODS would get every game if you could actually damage them.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I can't tell what's real and what's sarcasm in this place anymore. Are people really saying that BTB DMRs was good and that H2/H3 BTB was bad?

Share this post


Link to post

I can't tell what's real and what's sarcasm in this place anymore. Are people really saying that BTB DMRs was good?

the dmr doing vehicle damage was a good idea. It not being accurate was a problem.

Share this post


Link to post

is that a 343 Spartan with a bungie assault rifle?

 

Usually that guy comes with an LOL WUT captioned on it. Guess my meme was a little too dank this time.

Share this post


Link to post

Usually that guy comes with an LOL WUT captioned on it. Guess my meme was a little too dank this time.

fail

Share this post


Link to post

So out of all things, that's what you picked up on?

everything else seemed normal.

Share this post


Link to post

I sorta responded about this a while back.

 

 

Is it really though?

Humans naturally tend to look at the ground when moving about. Blame it on never having any natural airborne predators and our hunter-gatherer mentality. It's also part of the reason why we prefer horizontal widescreen, not vertical. It's evolutionarily beneficial.

 

We emulate these habits when we play Halo. Players tend to focus their eyes on the reticle, and then proceed to move their view downward towards the ground(Hell, I still do it). Although this habit is good to have in real life, there isn't much reason or benefit for a player to look at the ground in Halo.

 

By placing the reticle lower on the screen, we can satisfy our psychological need to look at the ground and center our screen on the horizon. All without any real loss of visability.

 

Granted, this sort of setup only really helps games with a low FOV. Developers probably want players to make the most of what view they have. So "cutting the fat" and biasing players view upwards where most of the useful information is is actually a pretty good idea.

 

But as we see in that video, a higher FOV does everything better and makes the off center reticle kind of redundant and unnecessary.

 

But I don't think it's dumb at all. I think it's subtle and a brilliant way to work with what you have.

 
Players only move their view downward if the reticle is not centered. Go watch Halo CE videos and compare them to Halo 2 videos. In CE, players don't need to move their reticle down off the horizon to get a good view of the ground in front of them because the reticle is centered (meaning more of the area below the reticle is viewable). Players can move about naturally while still maintaining the optimal reticle location. 
 
By lowering the reticle on the screen, Bungie forced players to choose between their natural instinct and desire to see the ground in front of them  and having their reticle in the optimal place for a firefight. They are doing the opposite of what you said and biasing players view downward.  
  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

@@MATCLAN, @@TiberiusAudley, you guys wanna weigh in on this?

 

I totally fat thumbed the quote/edit button :(

 

Just going to brain-dump a bit, so forgive me if the formatting is a bit all over. I might come back and tidy it up later:

 

I think there's a good amount of personal preference in it and you can make pretty fair arguments either way.

Personally I agree with you - having primarily watched a ton of BTB tournaments from Reach onwards (lets just ignore the atrocious MM settings for now for obvious reasons) I like the concepts of partially recoverable health that can be whittled down by small-arms fire and chunked with medium and high tier weapons.Conceptually I also really dislike the Spartan Laser because it basically equates to several minutes of complete vehicle denial for the team without it, and I think that kind of momentum swing is excessive. The sheer threat of the thing is arguably more effective than any kills you do get with it.

 

That said, I also don't think that the post-Reach vehicle health system has been done well yet; light vehicles tend to be way to vulnerable to 3-4 people coordinating fire and anything that has shields is inherently going to be used oppressively to control space with near impunity.

I'd say that H5 comes pretty close if we're just talking about raw health values and Laser alternatives (the Railgun, Grenade Launcher, and Plasma Caster do good chunks of damage but are rarely an instant kill surprise factor), but everything else is off. They're often more frustrating and risky than fun and empowering, and if you view the Warthog as essentially being the bridge between infantry and other vehicles - if it isn't usable then everything else is going to be broken one way or another.The Warthog gunner's vulnerability to just being shot at makes the overall health of the vehicle a moot point since it's so easy to just tag the gunner a few times and that the chaingun itself isn't effective enough to be threatening in most scenarios. Plus the ground vehicle physics have all gone downhill since H3, and this doesn't help at all.

 

As for the H3 style - I don't particularly like it, but it has to go with the huge caveat of the H3 online experience and the H3 BR (and other weapons, aside from some dual-wield combinations being surprisingly effective) being so inconsistent that it's hard to really tell how it feels when shooting the occupants is so rarely a valid option. I'd be quite open to trying it again with an accurate weapon and solid netcode. I do think that the tanks definitely are more balanced in the Reach health system (also, pour one out for the Revenant; a medium-weight vehicle that encouraged mobile aggressive objective play and could still be worn down over time should have become a staple imo).

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

It’s intentional. It has something to do with new players needing to see the floor in front of them to stay oriented, so having a lower reticle let’s them see more while they’re looking slightly down.

 

 

Except the Bungie logic is backwards and misguided, as usual. It should be centered so that you can see the ground in front of you while still maintaining an appropriate aiming horizon. Having the reticle lower on the screen means you see more of whats above your reticle, forcing you to look downward just to get a good viewpoint. 

 

 

I can't look right now but will dig for it after work. It might be from a twitter exchange I had with a developer but I swore it was the opposite reasoning. I believe that they chose to have the reticle lower so players could focus more on the horizon than the ground, as if players were supposed to look past the reticle.

Share this post


Link to post

I can't look right now but will dig for it after work. It might be from a twitter exchange I had with a developer but I swore it was the opposite reasoning. I believe that they chose to have the reticle lower so players could focus more on the horizon than the ground, as if players were supposed to look past the reticle.

Yeah I couldn’t remember exactly why, but I knew it was intentional and had to do with new players tendency to look at the ground.

Share this post


Link to post

In games like that, vehicles aren’t as dominant because the available counters are almost always in play, the team is workin together to take it down, and the vehicle typically has to be vulnerable to be effective. This is totally different in the average social game, where a certain vehicle is practically a free perfection. That’s why I feel that the vehicle’s health settings should change depending on the audience and team composition.

That's one of the biggest issues with H5 social. There's not enough decent lower tiered counter weapons on a lot of maps so your team gets wrecked in-between power weapon spawns and then they continue to get destroyed because the other team gets all the power weapons since they're spawn camping you with vehicles. The adjusting health system sounds interesting although I doubt they would do something like that. 

Share this post


Link to post

@@MATCLAN, @@TiberiusAudley, you guys wanna weigh in on this?

 

I totally fat thumbed the quote/edit button :(

 

In response to the thread where 343 posted asking for what people to believe the most important change Halo 5 needs, I posted that the biggest flaw in the game is the imbalance between vehicles and infantry in Warzone.

 

Vehicles give you additional health, additional mobility (mobility is also health) and unlimited ammo of a stronger weapon.

Using REQ weapons only gave you a tiny amount of ammo and to get the extra health/mobility you'd have to spend more REQ points for boosts.

 

 

 

As for vehicle health systems, damaging vehicles with SAF should be centered around weakpoints, like the ghost gas tank.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use & Privacy Policy.