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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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I have no idea why anyone would intentionally play H3 in MCC.

 

:wutface:

 

Some people have a disappointment fetish.

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Halo 3's aiming was garbage, but it was at least consistent garbage, unlike Halo 5. Every game in Halo 5 feels like Russian roulette to me.

 

I'm not sure I'd say H5 aiming is better after all of the shit its gone through however Halo 3 aiming was and always will be absolutely trash. I still don't know how they got it so wrong compared to CE/2

 

I just don't get this anymore.  The last aiming patch made the aiming very consistent for me.

Consistent =/= good though.  its still wonky af.  It still doesn't feel "good".  I still can't switch to CoD or Destiny or Far Cry then back to Halo 5 without going "WTF just happened to my thumbs?"  But at least if i'm playing consistently it feels fine and i can look diagonally without feeling like im somehow bending space-time.  As it stands right now (not for the first 2 years of H5) H5 aiming > H3. obligatory "for me" , "imo" yadee yadee yada

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I only feel fucked up when my crosshair is just off of someone and I’m trying to make a small adjustment to get it on them. I don’t know if my problem is my dead zone, or if the sticky aim is kicking in too soon and making it harder to get on target, but sometimes the game feels like it’s ignoring my input and I don’t nudge my crosshair over. That shit drives me INSANE.

 

Edit: in H5. I forgot what thread I was in. That doesn’t happen in other games.

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I only feel fucked up when my crosshair is just off of someone and I’m trying to make a small adjustment to get it on them. I don’t know if my problem is my dead zone, or if the sticky aim is kicking in too soon and making it harder to get on target, but sometimes the game feels like it’s ignoring my input and I don’t nudge my crosshair over. That shit drives me INSANE.

 

Edit: in H5. I forgot what thread I was in. That doesn’t happen in other games.

 

Maybe that's part of my problem.  I have always had that experience for pretty much every game i ever play lol.  I'll get stuck.. just... a... tiny... bit... behind.

Even when I play on PC with a mouse.  If H5 is exacerbating that, i probably wouldn't even notice.

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I have no idea why anyone would intentionally play H3 in MCC.

I wanted H2, but just about everyone voted for it in BTB.

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I just don't get this anymore.  The last aiming patch made the aiming very consistent for me.

Consistent =/= good though.  its still wonky af.  It still doesn't feel "good".  I still can't switch to CoD or Destiny or Far Cry then back to Halo 5 without going "WTF just happened to my thumbs?"  But at least if i'm playing consistently it feels fine and i can look diagonally without feeling like im somehow bending space-time.  As it stands right now (not for the first 2 years of H5) H5 aiming > H3. obligatory "for me" , "imo" yadee yadee yada

Its the bolded. After the first two months of H3 it didn't matter anymore because it was consistent and I could learn and get better. After two years of Halo 5 its still weird and it was inconsistent and random for all of that time. Can't really top that as a bad experience

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I wanted H2, but just about everyone voted for it in BTB.

 

There's a reason it's called the Halo 3 Collection.

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Halo 3 BTB is awesome. When they release the update with a Halo 3 only BTB playlist, I will almost play that exclusively. Just hope they do it right with only BR start and bring back neutral assault. And if they could make shot registration identical to the original, then it will be a dream for me.

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lol

Halo 3 BTB is actually make a cameo in Infinity War. 

 

doctor_strange_torture_avengers_infinity

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H3 BTB had great vehicle physics, mostly good maps, and good interaction between equipment and vehicles. The vehicles were effective and served their purpose well. My issue with it, and I understand this is personal preference, is that the BR was almost useless against vehicles. This made certain vehicles too strong, especially if their intended counter was being denied (Hornets on Avalanche, Warthogs on Standoff, Chopper on Sandbox).

 

Some people like the rock/paper/scissors aspect of H3 BTB, in that there were usually plenty of possible counters available, but most were very difficult to pull off. And while it may be true that plenty of options existed, most of the options were not viable against a good operator, especially one backed up by a good team.

 

I personally like the Reach/H4/H5 route, where you can reliably, albeit slowly, whittle down a vehicle’s health with sustained utility fire. It should never be the best solution, but it should be A solution. I don’t think vehicles should be able to last all game. A good operator should be able to keep it in play way longer than an average one, but they should eventually fall if they’re being targeted.

 

The exact health pool of the vehicle then becomes the real debate. Reach and H4 were too weak for the Ghost and the Warthog. They were barely worth using. H5 may have tipped the scales too far the other way though. The Ghost and the Wraith are in a mostly good place as far as health goes, but the Ghost could definitely use a damage nerf. Everything else is pretty damn strong though, especially the Banshee. That thing should be a nimble glass cannon.

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I'm not sure I'd say H5 aiming is better after all of the shit its gone through however Halo 3 aiming was and always will be absolutely trash. I still don't know how they got it so wrong compared to CE/2

The real question to ask is why Halo: CE seems to be the only game in the series that has reticle perfectly centered on the screen. Halo 2, I can understand, due to its development, but the rest of the series... no. That  should be a very simple adjustment.

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The real question to ask is why Halo: CE seems to be the only game in the series that has reticle perfectly centered on the screen. Halo 2, I can understand, due to its development, but the rest of the series... no. That should be a very simple adjustment.

It’s intentional. It has something to do with new players needing to see the floor in front of them to stay oriented, so having a lower reticle let’s them see more while they’re looking slightly down.

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It’s intentional. It has something to do with new players needing to see the floor in front of them to stay oriented, so having a lower reticle let’s them see more while they’re looking slightly down.

 

I need to change my wife's reticle placement in Far Cry then... The options came up at the start for Offset or Centered and i picked centered cuz DUH!!

She doesn't play shooters so changing that might help her out.

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I need to change my wife's reticle placement in Far Cry then... The options came up at the start for Offset or Centered and i picked centered cuz DUH!!

She doesn't play shooters so changing that might help her out.

Except the Bungie logic is backwards and misguided, as usual. It should be centered so that you can see the ground in front of you while still maintaining an appropriate aiming horizon. Having the reticle lower on the screen means you see more of whats above your reticle, forcing you to look downward just to get a good viewpoint. 

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It’s intentional. It has something to do with new players needing to see the floor in front of them to stay oriented, so having a lower reticle let’s them see more while they’re looking slightly down.

I'm reading this, right? Bungie made the decision to leave it as it is to accommodate the newer players just so they can see what's underneath their feet in the front, correct? This is counter-intuitive at best. Halo: CE nailed the placement perfectly, and players could still see the floor underneath them, and wouldn't need to look down just to adjust my viewpoint.

 

I personally like the Reach/H4/H5 route, where you can reliably, albeit slowly, whittle down a vehicle’s health with sustained utility fire. It should never be the best solution, but it should be A solution. I don’t think vehicles should be able to last all game. A good operator should be able to keep it in play way longer than an average one, but they should eventually fall if they’re being targeted.

I also didn't get the chance to post my thoughts on the Reach and subsequent Halo games approach to vehicular combat. I didn't like the health system of vehicles in Reach because it gave players vague visual information on how much health said vehicle had left. Another problem with this system were the potential imbalances in BTB matches - some vehicles felt too weak, while others dealt way too much damage.  A health system would greatly benefit from these issues because it would give players more sustainable feedback of how damaged a vehicle is. Maybe even a rechargeable shield system to some Covenants vehicles could work.

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Except the Bungie logic is backwards and misguided, as usual. It should be centered so that you can see the ground in front of you while still maintaining an appropriate aiming horizon. Having the reticle lower on the screen means you see more of whats above your reticle, forcing you to look downward just to get a good viewpoint.

I sorta responded about this a while back.

 

Is it really though?

Humans naturally tend to look at the ground when moving about. Blame it on never having any natural airborne predators and our hunter-gatherer mentality. It's also part of the reason why we prefer horizontal widescreen, not vertical. It's evolutionarily beneficial.

 

We emulate these habits when we play Halo. Players tend to focus their eyes on the reticle, and then proceed to move their view downward towards the ground(Hell, I still do it). Although this habit is good to have in real life, there isn't much reason or benefit for a player to look at the ground in Halo.

 

By placing the reticle lower on the screen, we can satisfy our psychological need to look at the ground and center our screen on the horizon. All without any real loss of visability.

 

Granted, this sort of setup only really helps games with a low FOV. Developers probably want players to make the most of what view they have. So "cutting the fat" and biasing players view upwards where most of the useful information is is actually a pretty good idea.

 

But as we see in that video, a higher FOV does everything better and makes the off center reticle kind of redundant and unnecessary.

 

But I don't think it's dumb at all. I think it's subtle and a brilliant way to work with what you have.

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Granted, this sort of setup only really helps games with a low FOV. Developers probably want players to make the most of what view they have. So "cutting the fat" and biasing players view upwards where most of the useful information is is actually a pretty good idea.

I still think it was stupid on Bungie's part. I was told the FoV was lowered from Halo 2, and onward, just to accommodate for the graphics, in some way - make them sharper, somehow. ODST had a fairly decent FoV, yet they didn't use it back in 2007, when Halo 3 came out.

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H3 BTB had great vehicle physics, mostly good maps, and good interaction between equipment and vehicles. The vehicles were effective and served their purpose well. My issue with it, and I understand this is personal preference, is that the BR was almost useless against vehicles. This made certain vehicles too strong, especially if their intended counter was being denied (Hornets on Avalanche, Warthogs on Standoff, Chopper on Sandbox).

 

Some people like the rock/paper/scissors aspect of H3 BTB, in that there were usually plenty of possible counters available, but most were very difficult to pull off. And while it may be true that plenty of options existed, most of the options were not viable against a good operator, especially one backed up by a good team.

 

I personally like the Reach/H4/H5 route, where you can reliably, albeit slowly, whittle down a vehicle’s health with sustained utility fire. It should never be the best solution, but it should be A solution. I don’t think vehicles should be able to last all game. A good operator should be able to keep it in play way longer than an average one, but they should eventually fall if they’re being targeted.

 

The exact health pool of the vehicle then becomes the real debate. Reach and H4 were too weak for the Ghost and the Warthog. They were barely worth using. H5 may have tipped the scales too far the other way though. The Ghost and the Wraith are in a mostly good place as far as health goes, but the Ghost could definitely use a damage nerf. Everything else is pretty damn strong though, especially the Banshee. That thing should be a nimble glass cannon.

Halo 3 is the most balanced BTB and by far the best. You need to control Spartan laser to take out vehicles, or use stickies. Halo 2 BTB is great too. Reach isn't balanced, but it's a lot more fun than Halo 4 and Halo 5 because those ones are just absolute garbage.

 

 

 

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H3 BTB had great vehicle physics, mostly good maps, and good interaction between equipment and vehicles. The vehicles were effective and served their purpose well. My issue with it, and I understand this is personal preference, is that the BR was almost useless against vehicles. This made certain vehicles too strong, especially if their intended counter was being denied (Hornets on Avalanche, Warthogs on Standoff, Chopper on Sandbox).

 

Some people like the rock/paper/scissors aspect of H3 BTB, in that there were usually plenty of possible counters available, but most were very difficult to pull off. And while it may be true that plenty of options existed, most of the options were not viable against a good operator, especially one backed up by a good team.

 

I personally like the Reach/H4/H5 route, where you can reliably, albeit slowly, whittle down a vehicle’s health with sustained utility fire. It should never be the best solution, but it should be A solution. I don’t think vehicles should be able to last all game. A good operator should be able to keep it in play way longer than an average one, but they should eventually fall if they’re being targeted.

 

The exact health pool of the vehicle then becomes the real debate. Reach and H4 were too weak for the Ghost and the Warthog. They were barely worth using. H5 may have tipped the scales too far the other way though. The Ghost and the Wraith are in a mostly good place as far as health goes, but the Ghost could definitely use a damage nerf. Everything else is pretty damn strong though, especially the Banshee. That thing should be a nimble glass cannon.

I just going to give my take on thi .Not going to go deep into halo 5 because it's easily my least played halo game. Also just going to ignore the gauss warthog because its op as fuck in every game

 

in a team of 8 vs another team of 8, the vehicles in reach and 4 are paper mache. yes you can whittle them down when youre with randos, but when 8 people with a dmr are expecting a banshee to peak, you're lucky you even get 1 kill. Not to mention the fire power of the warthog is jokes and the accuracy of the weapons made the mongoose a joke. The strength of vehicles in halo3 (and halo2 honestly) is what made me love btb so much. In reach-4, it's not even worth using anything but the banshee to try and get pot shots. Yeah you can get 1-2 kills then instantly die, but that's not very fun imo. It also makes objective games very very hard vs people who camp their base. 

 

And if we're going to talk MM halo reach/4. YOU LITERALLY CAN SPAWN WITH CAMO. shit is ridiculous lol. And ofc with halo 4 you can spawn with stickies and with plasma pistols. God i fucking hated halo 4 btb because everything but the gauss was worthless. The h4 banshee wasn't terrible but the maps just never worked with it but valhalla. You were always way too close to the enemy so you had no where to retreat. Hello, im 343 and on ctf im going to make the enemies spawn in your base when youre pulling their flag. Yep. fun. The scorpion/wraith just got pp'd from behind then stickied/boarded. 

 

and in halo 3, The br did shit damage yes, but the AR that you always spawned with tore them apart. The range on the vehicles were much shorter in halo2/3 and barely outranged the AR. But outside AR range it's hard to aim and hard to actually finish kills. The chopper on sandbox or the hornet on avalanche is the perfect example of this. They were absolute tanks but their dps was horrid. If the glass was broken on the hornet you could out dps it with a BR lol. Vehicles were strong but not indestructible on h3, it took teamwork to kill these behemoths and that's why I loved it so much. And you have the tools to kill these things.

 

Yeah a team of 8 is going to 100-5 a team of randoms. But running ranked btb and ranked squad, games were almost always competitive. With a coordinated team, you always had options. Banshee on Valhalla? your base carries a 10s respawn power drainer, 2 stickies on 10sec respawn, 2 plasma pistols, and a missle pod. plus the 8 ARs your teammates spawn with. A skilled pilot was needed for ranked btb, but even then they had to be smart as fuck, keep those respawns on their mind. They just used drainer? be more aggro for the next 10s. But you still got to be wary because 3 people with an AR will take you out. 

 

Chopper on sandbox? again you have a 10s drainer, a missle pod, and ARs. A very effective method was legit just chucking frag grenades up there. They have to be stationary to be invincible from br bullets. They either have to back up everytime a frag is chucked at them, or they get hit by a frag which jolts them to the side and they die instantly to BR pellets. 

 

Warthog on standoff. Stickies, drainer, pp in the base. But to be honest the easiest way to deal with a warthog was just to have every1 br it until it flipped over then rain grenades until it blows up. 

 

sandtrap, rats nest, avalanche, some sandbox varients, longshore, last resort, (and isolation, construct, high ground for squad) aren't even vehicle heavy (assuming it's not heavies, haha!) so you got plenty of games in that didn't focus solely around vehicles. 

 

Sometimes it is like derelict where the other team has legit fucking everything, but i've never played a game where they retained control for the whole game. 

 

and one nitpick but hornets on avalanche were more like mosquitos. They were just annoying af. They didn't really do anything. They just poked you from distance. They cant push up because the turret you can shoot off spawn freaking wrecks that thing, same with the warthogs that are on a fast respawn. It was like that annoying thing you had to kill on the opponents side of the map before you could pull the flag/arm the bomb. Controlling keyhole (the middle of the map) with tons of bodies was the most important part of that map. 

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Halo 3 BTB is actually make a cameo in Infinity War. 

 

 

 

Good meme, but H3 BTB is probably the best in the series, H2 is a strong contender but the MCC H2 BR is so fucked at range that BTB is unplayable for me (yes it's worse than the H3 BR in most matches).

The vehicle balance has been talked about above: H3's is far from perfect, but it still shits on all the other Halo game's vehicle balance. I agree with @HardWay that vehicles should never be invincible to the starting weapon, but at the same time Reach and H4 did this so horrid that I'd rather just have H3's solution. And at least H3 didn't have vehicles that are just zero fun to play against like the Reach/H5 Banshee or the Wasp, seriously who designed that PoS.

 

H3 also has some of the best BTB maps besides H2. Last Resort, Valhalla, Standoff, Rats Nest, Avalanche, even the shitty Sandbox forge maps are miles ahead of anything in H4/5 and the vast majority of Reach's BTB maps. And the fact H3 doesn't have a Blood Gulch variant makes it all the better because that map is complete thrash outside of a LAN setting with people who have no idea what they're doing.

 

Lastly, H3 BTB back in the day was amazing because H3's ranking system and MM were so much better than anything we've ever had since. MCC BTB doesn't have any of this. Back in the day, you'd get real balanced matches (crazy right), so if you search in 2s with a buddy to relax you'd get guests and people fucking around on Mongooses, but in larger parties you'd actually get decent opponents and believe it or not, people actually tried to win in H3 because that was the only way to get XP. We didn't need a fucking Flagnum to "empower objective carriers", people pulled the flag because they wanted to win. No one plays objective anymore because there's no incentive to do so and in the case of H4 you're stuck with the Flag for eternity (lmao this company).

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I just going to give my take on thi .Not going to go deep into halo 5 because it's easily my least played halo game. Also just going to ignore the gauss warthog because its op as fuck in every game

 

in a team of 8 vs another team of 8, the vehicles in reach and 4 are paper mache. yes you can whittle them down when youre with randos, but when 8 people with a dmr are expecting a banshee to peak, you're lucky you even get 1 kill. Not to mention the fire power of the warthog is jokes and the accuracy of the weapons made the mongoose a joke. The strength of vehicles in halo3 (and halo2 honestly) is what made me love btb so much. In reach-4, it's not even worth using anything but the banshee to try and get pot shots. Yeah you can get 1-2 kills then instantly die, but that's not very fun imo. It also makes objective games very very hard vs people who camp their base.

 

And if we're going to talk MM halo reach/4. YOU LITERALLY CAN SPAWN WITH CAMO. shit is ridiculous lol. And ofc with halo 4 you can spawn with stickies and with plasma pistols. God i fucking hated halo 4 btb because everything but the gauss was worthless. The h4 banshee wasn't terrible but the maps just never worked with it but valhalla. You were always way too close to the enemy so you had no where to retreat. Hello, im 343 and on ctf im going to make the enemies spawn in your base when youre pulling their flag. Yep. fun. The scorpion/wraith just got pp'd from behind then stickied/boarded.

 

and in halo 3, The br did shit damage yes, but the AR that you always spawned with tore them apart. The range on the vehicles were much shorter in halo2/3 and barely outranged the AR. But outside AR range it's hard to aim and hard to actually finish kills. The chopper on sandbox or the hornet on avalanche is the perfect example of this. They were absolute tanks but their dps was horrid. If the glass was broken on the hornet you could out dps it with a BR lol. Vehicles were strong but not indestructible on h3, it took teamwork to kill these behemoths and that's why I loved it so much. And you have the tools to kill these things.

 

Yeah a team of 8 is going to 100-5 a team of randoms. But running ranked btb and ranked squad, games were almost always competitive. With a coordinated team, you always had options. Banshee on Valhalla? your base carries a 10s respawn power drainer, 2 stickies on 10sec respawn, 2 plasma pistols, and a missle pod. plus the 8 ARs your teammates spawn with. A skilled pilot was needed for ranked btb, but even then they had to be smart as fuck, keep those respawns on their mind. They just used drainer? be more aggro for the next 10s. But you still got to be wary because 3 people with an AR will take you out.

 

Chopper on sandbox? again you have a 10s drainer, a missle pod, and ARs. A very effective method was legit just chucking frag grenades up there. They have to be stationary to be invincible from br bullets. They either have to back up everytime a frag is chucked at them, or they get hit by a frag which jolts them to the side and they die instantly to BR pellets.

 

Warthog on standoff. Stickies, drainer, pp in the base. But to be honest the easiest way to deal with a warthog was just to have every1 br it until it flipped over then rain grenades until it blows up.

 

sandtrap, rats nest, avalanche, some sandbox varients, longshore, last resort, (and isolation, construct, high ground for squad) aren't even vehicle heavy (assuming it's not heavies, haha!) so you got plenty of games in that didn't focus solely around vehicles.

 

Sometimes it is like derelict where the other team has legit fucking everything, but i've never played a game where they retained control for the whole game.

 

and one nitpick but hornets on avalanche were more like mosquitos. They were just annoying af. They didn't really do anything. They just poked you from distance. They cant push up because the turret you can shoot off spawn freaking wrecks that thing, same with the warthogs that are on a fast respawn. It was like that annoying thing you had to kill on the opponents side of the map before you could pull the flag/arm the bomb. Controlling keyhole (the middle of the map) with tons of bodies was the most important part of that map.

I can see how that would be better in more organized games, but it’s a nightmare in pubs. This seems like a setting that should be scaleable. Maybe competitive or ranked BTB should use a higher health pool on the vehicles/reduced utility damage, and have social be the area where you don’t need as much coordination to take down vehicles.

 

Personally I feel like you could find the right balance for both styles of play just by using a slider for the vehicle’s health.

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Vehicles already have 10x the health and mobility of a normal person. They have consistently been the most op part of halo games. They shouldn't be dealing tons of damage on top of that. I don't get it it's honestly like you guys aren't even playing the same game. The hornet on Avalanche is easily one of the most map breaking things I have ever seen.

 

Vehicles literally let you lock down entire parts of the map with little resistance. Even if they dealt 1/5 of the damage they do now they'd still be extremely useful. But nah they should do all that and more. Cuz why not.

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