Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

Dude, I love me some Perfect Dark. I can still play that shit today. Single-player or multiplayer. I own all 3 versions of it. Probably in my top 3 shooters of all time.

 

Sure it was great at the time, and even now it's fun to pop in once in a while. But the N64 controls are pretty bad in hindsight and the AI was pretty brainless. The Xbox remake sort of rectifies the controls but they chose not to add any magnetism for people who didn't want to just have their gun straight up aim for them which I still scratch my head over.

 

The variety and creativity in weapon design and bots and stats and all that are still unparalleled to this day though. Some pretty good maps too.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Goldeneye and Perfect Dark don't really hold up that well tbh. The controls are so bad. I'd definitely rather play Halo 2.

 

Like count me in as not a big fan of Halo 2, but it's definitely not a bad game. The plot and character development are far better than Halo 1. The cliffhanger sucks but isn't that bad and really isn't an issue now when you can play Halo 3 right after. The graphics are aesthetically poor imo but still technically impressive.

 

It is a too linear in gameplay but the gameplay is still tight at least and feels fun. A lot of levels are pretty bad though. Like all of the flood ones and Outskirts and driving through the city is pretty boring.

I still think the arbiters turn was abrupt at the end though. Like the gravemind says shit and he straight up doesn't believe him. But then he goes to confront Tartarus and tells him it's all a lie. It feels like something was missing.

Share this post


Link to post

I was watching ogre2 stream h1 on MCC the other day.  He was complaining about how it was taking more than a full pistol clip to kill players in hh...  

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I still think the arbiters turn was abrupt at the end though. Like the gravemind says shit and he straight up doesn't believe him. But then he goes to confront Tartarus and tells him it's all a lie. It feels like something was missing.

I can sympathise with that, I suppose it never bothered me because that was the 4th consecutive character to tell the arbiter that Halo blows shit up after the heretic, the Oracle, and chief. I suppose even in that gravemind scene he knew deep down that his beliefs were a lie, and the tartarus betrayal probably revealed the motives of the prophets to him better.

 

The rest of the writing and character development in H2 is so damn incredible that it doesn't bother me

  • Upvote (+1) 7

Share this post


Link to post

Dude, I love me some Perfect Dark. I can still play that shit today. Single-player or multiplayer. I own all 3 versions of it. Probably in my top 3 shooters of all time.

I think Perfect Dark holds up a lot better than what people give it credit for, and I fully believe that its pros outweigh its cons by a HUGE margin. I don't consider "bad controls" and "brainless A.I.' as legitimate problems of the game, because the N64 controller only had one analog stick, and the console, itself, wasn't powerful enough to allow the game to have smarter A.I. People also criticized the game for its "outdated graphics" and framerate, but I think the framerate is the only valid problem of the game, and the graphics are actually one of the best you'll get out of an N64 cartridge; we tend to look at old video games from 2018 standpoint, instead of looking at them from a standpoint from a year or generation in which they were made in. Three out of the four problems that people have with the game now, weren't even considered that problematic back in 2000, because it was the standard for console games during that year.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I guess I'm lucky. Stuff like that is actually really rare for me. MCC has been pretty kind to me for a long time now.

Share this post


Link to post

> Jump into Team Slayer

 

> BRs on Warlord wins the vote

 

> Game starts and it's a plasma pistols FFA on Prisoner

 

MCC still has it, boys!

  • Upvote (+1) 8

Share this post


Link to post

Like count me in as not a big fan of Halo 2, but it's definitely not a bad game. The plot and character development are far better than Halo 1. The cliffhanger sucks but isn't that bad and really isn't an issue now when you can play Halo 3 right after.

It's bad for me cause I'd rather play Halo 3's story with Halo 2's gameplay.

Share this post


Link to post

I think Perfect Dark holds up a lot better than what people give it credit for, and I fully believe that its pros outweigh its cons by a HUGE margin. I don't consider "bad controls" and "brainless A.I.' as legitimate problems of the game, because the N64 controller only had one analog stick, and the console, itself, wasn't powerful enough to allow the game to have smarter A.I. People also criticized the game for its "outdated graphics" and framerate, but I think the framerate is the only valid problem of the game, and the graphics are actually one of the best you'll get out of an N64 cartridge; we tend to look at old video games from 2018 standpoint, instead of looking at them from a standpoint from a year or generation in which they were made in. Three out of the four problems that people have with the game now, weren't even considered that problematic back in 2000, because it was the standard for console games during that year.

 

Perfect Dark is still fun. But it's really held back by its outdated controls and AI. Sure it was held back by the N64 so its hard to fault the developers themselves, but the point remains that it is held back by these things. Maybe they should have told Nintendo that they wanted to make it a Gamecube launch title and take advantage of more powerful hardware?

 

Like Halo came out literally a year later and is still replayable to this day and has more interesting gameplay and AI than Halo 5. Obviously the Xbox was more powerful and had a better controller but it was a gigantic leap forward and will stand the test of time much better.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

That said, I can’t respect a ranking system that doesn’t use matchmaking. The simple fact that you get to choose your opponents AND gametype/map renders a custom browser ranking system useless.

 

I quite liked Rainbow Six 3's use of Elo. You can pick the game you want to play, but you won't rank up unless you beat somebody better than you.

 

“situations tend to keep playing out the same.” That’s a bold face lie. Halo is known for having intelligent AI that varies gameplay encounters. Bungie has marketed this key design repeatedly during the development of the series. The halo trilogy is famous for having excellent AI that rivaled half life and FEAR. If anything H2 is more linear, that’s a valid criticism and something I wish future halo games addressed. But it was a concession to reduce the constant backtracking of CE. It’s a decision with pros (varied environments) and cons (linear). Still doesn’t disqualify H2 from being a “good game”.

The AI is wasted in Halo 2. Fewer wide-open battles, way more covering in corridors. In later levels, you can run right though some encounters, and some levels are extended by doing effectively the same close-quarters encounter over and over. The bad weapon balance also made battles drag out unless you kept doing the same thing. Not to mention the surprise insta-kill Jackal snipers that REALLY slowed things down. Halo 1's situational flexibility was off the charts thanks to more open level design and more weapons that were consistently effective.

 

And regarding mechanical play, I wasn't just talking about the campaign. Don't tell me you don't remember Team Slayer matches on Ascension ALWAYS playing the same way, and one-on-one encounters ALWAYS having the same rhythm. Unless I was in objective, BTB, or a rare custom match, Halo 2 multi was mind-numbing.

 

I’m sorry but a standard A and B plot that combines in the third acted is tangled? There’s nothing confusing about the plot of h2, I think you need to go into detail about the apparent narrative missteps.

I'm personally amazed to see others having fond memories of Halo 2's story. There are lots of interesting characters, but aside from the very broad strokes, I never fully understood who was doing what to whom, and why. During gameplay I never felt like I was making stuff happen, like my experiences were a sideshow, and the real action was always "over there". The transitions between locations were awkward, and when the plotlines merged, it just felt like "it happened", no sense of anticipation or payoff. Getting thrown into complex Covenant politics without any primer didn't help things.

 

I don’t know if you know much about the visual arts but it’s always subjective. This isn’t debatable. I personally think both CE and H2 isn’t the best looking games in terms of artstyle but at the time of release H2 was a technical beast. Easily one of the best looking games of the generation. Only games like Chaos Theory/ninja gaiden and pc games looked better.

Was Halo 2's lighting and animation technically better than Halo 1's? Yes. But it wasn't used well. Halo 2 is flat, muddy, and dark most of the time, with only brief moments of "pop". In some games this kind of grit is welcome, but it doesn't match the tone of Halo. Gone was the bright shiny metal, glowing highlights, area-filling flashes from plasma grenades, and looming Covenant dropships, replaced by dull textures, dull light sources, dull weapons, and dull troop drops (the ONE epic moment of tubes dropping on the beach excepted), with a nice goopy coating of bloom on it all. And outside of cutscenes, that nice animation is kind of wasted, as the emphasis on tight corridors and sniper perches means enemies don't move around as much as they used to. And GOD are those stiff Havok death animations UGLY.

 

Again why are you trying to take away online play from H2? It’s in the game, it was designed with online play in mind and it was shipped with online enabled. You can’t take away a key feature of a product to try to lessen the impact it had on the entire industry. It’s cheap. Gee I wonder how counter strike would be without its online. So you dislike matchmaking cool.. but how about the friends list or ranks? Or in game messaging? Or invites? Features so prolific that it molded the entire industry. Or we just going to sidestep that?

 

Friends lists, messaging, and invites all launched with Xbox Live in 2002. Rainbow Six 3 had ranks in 2003. Halo 2 only added matchmaking, which I feel was a step backwards, and clans, which was nice, but wasn't my bag, nor a central part of the community. Halo 1 was intended to have online, and if it had, Halo 2's impact would've been significantly diminished. Halo 2's legacy is thanks much more to timing than inherent quality.

 

I repeat - Halo 2's art style was dull, the campaign didn't flow well, the typical gameplay in campaign AND multi was inflexible, and the ONE widely used original component, matchmaking, felt like getting issued marching orders. I DON'T have an agenda, this was my ACTUAL experience, and feel free to continue insulting my intelligence.

  • Upvote (+1) 5

Share this post


Link to post

Maybe they should have told Nintendo that they wanted to make it a Gamecube launch title and take advantage of more powerful hardware?

 

Wasn't going to happen. PD was designed as a sequel to GoldenEye on the same platform, just as Banjo-Tooie was.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

 

I repeat - Halo 2's art style was dull, the campaign didn't flow well, the typical gameplay in campaign AND multi was inflexible, and the ONE widely used original component, matchmaking, felt like getting issued marching orders. I DON'T have an agenda, this was my ACTUAL experience, and feel free to continue insulting my intelligence.

 

I have no desire to insult your intelligence, not sure how you got that. My problem with your arguments however, is that they're completely subjective at best and nitpicky at worst. I find this to be a lazy way to critique something. Halo 2 has actual problems that most of the fanbase can agree on. Like super bouncing, smg starts, flood, etc. That's fair and good..nothing's perfect. But your techniques and arguments can be replicated to make almost anything look bad. Ex.. "Half-Life 2 is not a good game. The art style is unimaginative and lifeless, the combat doesn't flow well and the replay value non existent. The ONE widely praised component, facial animations i feel is a wasted attempt at mimicking cinema while the actual gameplay is lacking" Obviously I said a bunch of "stuff" about Half life but most of it is just hollow and personal feelings/problems. That's my issue with most of your criticisms. I feel we'll have to agree to disagree but I just want to put this out there. 

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I have no desire to insult your intelligence, not sure how you got that. My problem with your arguments however, is that they're completely subjective at best and nitpicky at worst. I find this to be a lazy way to critique something. Halo 2 has actual problems that most of the fanbase can agree on. Like super bouncing, smg starts, flood, etc. That's fair and good..nothing's perfect. But your techniques and arguments can be replicated to make almost anything look bad. Ex.. "Half-Life 2 is not a good game. The art style is unimaginative and lifeless, the combat doesn't flow well and the replay value non existent. The ONE widely praised component, facial animations i feel is a wasted attempt at mimicking cinema while the actual gameplay is lacking" Obviously I said a bunch of "stuff" about Half life but most of it is just hollow and personal feelings/problems. That's my issue with most of your criticisms. I feel we'll have to agree to disagree but I just want to put this out there. 

 

There's got to be SOME imperical reason why I consider Halo 2 to be BY FAR the weakest Bungie Halo. That's right, it's not even a "Halo 1 is the GOAT, all the rest suxz0rz" situation. I LIKE Halo 3 (the campaign brought back the epicness, and though the multi has some irritating qualities, it still plays a lot smoother), and I LIKE Halo Reach even more (if only for the incredible across-the-board production values).

 

Look at the facts. Halo 2 was rushed because Bungie had to throw out an engine that was too powerful for the console. Most of the textures (materials) have less detail and specular highlights than Halo 1 (where I was constantly zooming in and shining the flashlight on everything :P). There are fewer wide scale battles than Halo 1. And compared to other games on Xbox Live at the time (MechAssault, Project Gotham Racing 2, Rainbow Six 3, Unreal Championship, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow), the online play was more restrictive.

  • Upvote (+1) 1
  • Downvote (-1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

There's got to be SOME imperical reason why I consider Halo 2 to be BY FAR the weakest Bungie Halo. That's right, it's not even a "Halo 1 is the GOAT, all the rest suxz0rz" situation. I LIKE Halo 3 (the campaign brought back the epicness, and though the multi has some irritating qualities, it still plays a lot smoother), and I LIKE Halo Reach even more (if only for the incredible across-the-board production values).

 

Look at the facts. Halo 2 was rushed because Bungie had to throw out an engine that was too powerful for the console. Most of the textures (materials) have less detail and specular highlights than Halo 1 (where I was constantly zooming in and shining the flashlight on everything :P). There are fewer wide scale battles than Halo 1. And compared to other games on Xbox Live at the time (MechAssault, Project Gotham Racing 2, Rainbow Six 3, Unreal Championship, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow), the online play was more restrictive.

I'm sure there is a reason why you feel that H2 is the weakest but your original statement was that "Halo 2 is not a good game". I simply asked for you to elaborate. I see now that you personally just dislike the game I see no problem with this but you still failed to show why H2 should be regraded as a failure in the eyes and memories of gamers. 

 

Halo 2 had better online than all of those games.. Can't believe that your hatred of matchmaking is so great that you would claim that MechAssualt/PGR had comparable or less restrictive online experience. You were aware that if you disliked matchmaking so much you can just run customs? You know that feature where gametypes like zombies, troy, tower of power, and tour de walsh came from? Again attacking or disregarding H2's online component doesn't help your argument. It was the most robust online system at the time it made even PC players look back and it's still widely regarded as one of the best mulitplayers games in the history of the industry. 

 

The "facts" are that Halo 2 is a good game with flaws. History has proven this. Again your gripes are justified and you and many others can dislike H2 I'm not taking that away from you. I hate reach with a fiery passion, just one clip of the bloom mechanic will destroy the rest of my day and I'll fight anyone that claims reach is the best game in the series. Just wanted a more detailed explanation of your dislike. Need some discussion going till this update drops "soon"

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

 

Ahh. Going with the good ol’ fashioned CE anniversary treatment huh?

 

 

 

:kappa:

Man the relaunch in 2022 is gonna be sick!

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Y1yp7hd.png

 

Ahh. Going with the good ol’ fashioned CE anniversary treatment huh?

 

707yUsi.png

 

:kappa:

I don't know who's tweeting that, but do they know how much a fail the master chief collection was/is?

Share this post


Link to post

Some things Halo 2 did by far the best

 

Response time - one of the fastest of any console game I've ever played

 

Animation speed and canceling - still the most buttery fps to date, literally anything can be cancelled

 

Best writing of any Halo game by a mile

 

The best map pool next to Halo 3. You could probably make a case that H2s is even better

 

Those are all pretty impressive achievements if you ask me, I'd never place H2 outside the top 3 Halo games

  • Upvote (+1) 9

Share this post


Link to post

Some things Halo 2 did by far the best

 

Response time - one of the fastest of any console game I've ever played

 

Animation speed and canceling - still the most buttery fps to date, literally anything can be cancelled

 

Best writing of any Halo game by a mile

 

The best map pool next to Halo 3. You could probably make a case that H2s is even better

 

Those are all pretty impressive achievements if you ask me, I'd never place H2 outside the top 3 Halo games

I mean its pretty much impossible to place the first 3 outside of the top 3 unless you enjoy really shitty armor abilites/SA and super wonky maps intended to somehow make sprint work but keep the game playing like sprint isn't in the game which never actually works. 

  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I mean its pretty much impossible to place the first 3 outside of the top 3 unless you enjoy really shitty armor abilites/SA and super wonky maps intended to somehow make sprint work but keep the game playing like sprint isn't in the game which never actually works.

Well, yeah lol. Odst could definitely be a contender for best Halo experiences though and outside of core MP Reach had a lot of things going for it

Share this post


Link to post

Halo 2 had better online than all of those games.. Can't believe that your hatred of matchmaking is so great that you would claim that MechAssualt/PGR had comparable or less restrictive online experience. You were aware that if you disliked matchmaking so much you can just run customs?

It was hard to pull people away from matchmaking. Zombies matches were fairly common, but otherwise customs just floated in the wind.

 

Rocketball was the best time I had with Halo 2, but hardly anybody ever wanted to play it.

 

But with MechAssault and PGR 2, craziness was common. Stuff like all Elemental matches and Cat & Mouse...epic times. And that glorious UT Instagib... :D

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.