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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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@@Hard Way

 

I would be willing to argue that the majority of players would be somewhat confused playing objective on any given map. Not knowing where the flags spawn, not knowing where the hill is going to move to next, not knowing the best spots to jump off the map with the Oddball. These are all frustrations that many players don’t want to deal with.

 

4v4 is a core gametype because the majority of the maps are designed for 4v4 and Slayer is the most popular 4v4 gametype so it’s not just a buzzword, it’s the truth, there is no more “core” gametype than 4v4 TS.

 

If objectives are shitty, like you claim, why would you want to force players to play them? Petition for better and more objective gametypes before you try to shove the three, or however many gametypes H5 has, down other players throats who want no part of them.

 

What is your opinion on the casual player not wanting to learn all the new objectives? Is it better to have players quit out or stop trying because they were forced into a gametype they didn’t want to play or is it better to have all those players be able to play together in a gametype they do want to play?

 

All of these problems could be solved with a proper matchmaking system, some sort of in-game training and bots.

 

Speaking of bots, what is everybody's opinion on bot back-fill for social playlists?

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@@Apoll0

 

If players just want to play slayer, no amount of training is going to change that. Let them play what they enjoy, since apparently a lot of other people enjoy it too.

 

I don’t mind some kind of offline bot mode but please don’t mix them into online games with real players.

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All of these problems could be solved with a proper matchmaking system, some sort of in-game training and bots.

 

Speaking of bots, what is everybody's opinion on bot back-fill for social playlists?

 

Having a training playlist for the first 10 games would be great. Maybe the first five are one player with the rest of the slots filled by bots . Then the next five are two real players and two bots per team to slowly get people used to playing with real players.

 

And yes that would be amazing. Yeah social only so you don't get screwed over in ranked by a bad bot, but I don't see how it could hurt BTB or Multi Team. Definitely beats forcing people searching regular MM into JIP in order to backfill, which is just fucking stupid. 

Bots would also be good for Forgers to test their maps or when you're lanning/split screening with a few buddies and want to get more action going on the larger maps.

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@@Apoll0

 

If players just want to play slayer, no amount of training is going to change that. Let them play what they enjoy, since apparently a lot of other people enjoy it too.

 

I don’t mind some kind of offline bot mode but please don’t mix them into online games with real players.

 

You sure about that?  I'm not.  objective games are fun AF as long as  you aren't getting stomped by people repeatedly.  That's why people like slayer, there is less to focus on, especially at lower levels.  You can basically just focus on yourself or follow your teammates around and do OK.

 

Why not have bots in online social games with real players?  They would basically serve as placeholders until a real player joins.  I would want to try them as fill-ins for quitters only.  NEVER start a game with bots.  Still require all players to be real to start the match but if someone quits, backfill with a bot immediately until a new player is found.  This could also get rid of the issue where you JIP into a game only to immediately lose.  If 50% or more of the time or score to win has passed, game becomes JIP-ineligible for real players but all slots are at least filled for the team that lost its real players.  Not that they couldn't do the jip-ineligibility thing now, but by using bots they could at least make the rest of the game more tolerable for the team that has lost players.

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Having a training playlist for the first 10 games would be great. Maybe the first five are one player with the rest of the slots filled by bots . Then the next five are two real players and two bots per team to slowly get people used to playing with real players.

 

And yes that would be amazing. Yeah social only so you don't get screwed over in ranked by a bad bot, but I don't see how it could hurt BTB or Multi Team. Definitely beats forcing people searching regular MM into JIP in order to backfill, which is just fucking stupid. 

Bots would also be good for Forgers to test their maps or when you're lanning/split screening with a few buddies and want to get more action going on the larger maps.

 

I didn't think about that but thats a good point as well.  You could even make them dumb bots that don't actually move and use them to test spawn points and shit like that.

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Haven't been here in over 3 years so I got a couple of maybe stupid questions

 

 

How good and populated is Halo 3 BC and is MCC broken still?

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I've always wanted bots so I could practice up and git gud. Maybe won day I'll be able to understand the true perfection of the best competitive map in Halo history. I think bots could make it happen. If I act really adult like and git gud. Using those bots. Because I have no friends. Except bots. I feel so arrelavent. I need to git gud. Please bots let me git gud. So I can have friends. It's all I want. I want my Halo friends to like me. Please let me git gud bots. Please awww please. Maybe I can even get gud enough for the almight Sanctuary. Please bots let me git gud.

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Forgive me I just skipped like 5 pages of nerds sperging out

 

Are we talking about MCC playlists? Simple:

 

Remove cross-game playlists
Add gametype-specific playlists for each game

What's the concern? That certain playlists will have low population? So what? The solution isn't to consolidate playlists. If people can't find a match in one playlist, they can just go to another (for the same game).

 

There have been low-population playlists in every Halo game. Why is this a problem? Leave the low-population playlists alone, it's not like there are a finite amount of playlists possible, literally nothing is lost by having more playlist choices for users. If it's taking too long to find a match, the gametype you chose is just not that popular. I don't want to roll the dice every time I jump into matchmaking, praying to get the gametype I want.

 

Build a playlist system that makes sense and the playerbase will grow. If my favourite gametype was 4v4 CE there's no way in hell you'd catch me in the mixed-game Slayer playlist, on my knees praying for CE.

 

Mixed game and gametype playlists were a mistake.

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Haven't been here in over 3 years so I got a couple of maybe stupid questions

 

 

How good and populated is Halo 3 BC and is MCC broken still?

You can find games in H3 BC.  The population counter is broken so its hard to tell how many people are actually playing.  

 

MCC is still broken as fuck.  Its barely serviceable if you are playing solo (ie it can get you into a game, but fairness and connection stability are questionable at best) but the ranking is still fucked, UI glitches still abound, random disconnects, delayed spawning, etc still happen regularly.  Playing in a party is a chore.  The over/under on build-quits before you can get a party of 4 together is 6.5.

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Remove cross-game playlists

Add gametype-specific playlists for each game

I can't agree with this more.  There's nothing more irritating having to go into a playlist hoping to get what you want, only to be forced to play an inferior version of Halo.  That shit is just destined to piss people off.  Just give us a few playlist for each game and be done with it. And for the love of God give us more than one Halo C.E. only playlist. The population argument really is a joke. The entire population is low and has been since the launch flop. Just re-tweek the matching algorithms for lower pops and give us what we want. 

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You can find games in H3 BC.  The population counter is broken so its hard to tell how many people are actually playing.  

 

MCC is still broken as fuck.  Its barely serviceable if you are playing solo (ie it can get you into a game, but fairness and connection stability are questionable at best) but the ranking is still fucked, UI glitches still abound, random disconnects, delayed spawning, etc still happen regularly.  Playing in a party is a chore.  The over/under on build-quits before you can get a party of 4 together is 6.5.

Sucks to hear about MCC. Bungie would never let that happen lol

 

But in H3 BC can you find a game in any playlist you like to play or is it the certain playlist that are actually "playable" i.e social slayer, multi-team

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Forgive me I just skipped like 5 pages of nerds sperging out

 

Are we talking about MCC playlists? Simple:

 

Remove cross-game playlists

Add gametype-specific playlists for each game

 

What's the concern? That certain playlists will have low population? So what? The solution isn't to consolidate playlists. If people can't find a match in one playlist, they can just go to another (for the same game).

 

There have been low-population playlists in every Halo game. Why is this a problem? Leave the low-population playlists alone, it's not like there are a finite amount of playlists possible, literally nothing is lost by having more playlist choices for users. If it's taking too long to find a match, the gametype you chose is just not that popular. I don't want to roll the dice every time I jump into matchmaking, praying to get the gametype I want.

 

Build a playlist system that makes sense and the playerbase will grow. If my favourite gametype was 4v4 CE there's no way in hell you'd catch me in the mixed-game Slayer playlist, on my knees praying for CE.

 

Mixed game and gametype playlists were a mistake.

When people routinely can’t find games in a playlist, they stop searching in that playlist altogether. That’s what happened to me with FFA in Doom. That’s what I want to play but I can’t get a game, so I rarely search it anymore. And they tried this idea of more playlists. There’s an FFA playlist, and a playlist for only FFA deathmatch. I feel like if there was only one FFA playlist, I might get a game every now and then.

 

Having a shitload of playlists is great at the beginning, but as population drops all it does isn’t ensure long wait times, and that’s if you can get a game at all. In the case of MCC, the answer is search preferences with checkboxes for each game.

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Sucks to hear about MCC. Bungie would never let that happen lol

 

But in H3 BC can you find a game in any playlist you like to play or is it the certain playlist that are actually "playable" i.e social slayer, multi-team

peak times pretty much any playlist.  Last time i played was maybe a couple weeks ago though?  It may have dropped off since.

 

There has been some good news about MCC though.  THey are reworking it now. have a team on it.  Starting a public testing program next spring so they can test and tweak repeatedly in the wild.  They are updating it for the One X but the infrastrucure, matchmaking, stability etc improvements are for all Xbox console versions.

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When people routinely can’t find games in a playlist, they stop searching in that playlist altogether. 

I think there's a really simple solution to that problem. Stop shrouding the population and show the total number of people online and the total number of people in each playlist.  

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You sure about that? I'm not. objective games are fun AF as long as you aren't getting stomped by people repeatedly. That's why people like slayer, there is less to focus on, especially at lower levels. You can basically just focus on yourself or follow your teammates around and do OK.

 

Why not have bots in online social games with real players? They would basically serve as placeholders until a real player joins. I would want to try them as fill-ins for quitters only. NEVER start a game with bots. Still require all players to be real to start the match but if someone quits, backfill with a bot immediately until a new player is found. This could also get rid of the issue where you JIP into a game only to immediately lose. If 50% or more of the time or score to win has passed, game becomes JIP-ineligible for real players but all slots are at least filled for the team that lost its real players. Not that they couldn't do the jip-ineligibility thing now, but by using bots they could at least make the rest of the game more tolerable for the team that has lost players.

If you are solo, especially at lower ranks, obj is fucking hell.I distinctly remember a CTF game of truth where I singlehandedly got the flag all the way back to red sneaky then dying.I watched two teamates spawn and ignore it then the enemy return it right after I spawned.That's why I dislike obj because the gametype isn't even remotely fun 90% of the time unless you're at least diamond.

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I think there's a really simple solution to that problem. Stop shrouding the population and show the total number of people online and the total number of people in each playlist.

 

That can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.  People won't even try to search the lower pop ones.

At the same time i believe in transparency and think that the population numbers should be visible in some capacity.  They should make them available on the website or via the API for those that "want to know" but they dont need to "throw them in your face", so to speak.

 

If you are solo, especially at lower ranks, obj is fucking hell.I distinctly remember a CTF game of truth where I singlehandedly got the flag all the way back to red sneaky then dying.I watched two teamates spawn and ignore it then the enemy return it right after I spawned.That's why I dislike obj because the gametype isn't even remotely fun 90% of the time unless you're at least diamond.

Thats exactly why training should be a bigger part of the game. Along with making objective work more rewarding (not via a ton of obnoxious medals please).

 

Something like a sick weapon skin being tied to a milestone , "Be MVP of CTF/Oddball/KotH/whatever 25 times".  MVP is given to the player with the best combination of objective work per game..

 

Make the game value being a good teammate over anything else.  You can implement a lot of little nudges into various aspects of the game to influence player behavior in a positive way.

 

Using a mic is key too.  Playing some games last night i was the only one saying anything, but a couple guys on the team were clearly listening and responding to what i was saying.  In a couple other games other people started talking positively and the next thing you know we have 4 people talking, not calling anybody else stupid, and we win the game.

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peak times pretty much any playlist.  Last time i played was maybe a couple weeks ago though?  It may have dropped off since.

 

There has been some good news about MCC though.  THey are reworking it now. have a team on it.  Starting a public testing program next spring so they can test and tweak repeatedly in the wild.  They are updating it for the One X but the infrastrucure, matchmaking, stability etc improvements are for all Xbox console versions.

Appreciate the reinsurance

 

Another story but my GM at work she bought me an xbox one lmao so I was going to download H3 BC and get MCC 

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That can create a self-fulfilling prophecy.  People won't even try to search the lower pop ones.

At the same time i believe in transparency and think that the population numbers should be visible in some capacity.  They should make them available on the website or via the API for those that "want to know" but they dont need to "throw them in your face", so to speak.

Rocket League shows all the population counts and does just fine.  But then again, it has a healthier population overall.  I still think it would help, even with Halo.  Personally, it would encourage me to not give up on searching for a playlist if it's taking a little longer than usual if I could at least see there was 500 other people searching too. If there is literally no one playing a certain playlist, maybe that's a sign the playlist blows and shouldn't even be there, or maybe even more, that the game sucks and needs to be fixed.    

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In the case of MCC, the answer is search preferences with checkboxes for each game.

 

The result of this is the exact same as having multiple playlists per game. The only difference is how it's presented. Search times will still be slow for people that have a strict search criteria. Doesn't matter if the restrictions come in the form of playlist choices or search filters.

 

I'm indifferent in regards to the approach, as long as I can specify my favourite Halo title and not have to gamble every time I want to play.

 

PS: my point is that population and search times shouldn't limit accessibility and choice. I truly believe it's better to throw it all out there and let the playlist populations and search times speak for themselves. Any other approach will sacrifice total player count because if people can't play the title/gametype that they want, they simply won't play at all.

 

The real self-fulfililng prophecy is that they limit choice by jamming a plethora of gametypes across titles into mixed playlists, then they sort these piss-poor playlists by order of population and say "hey look the top playlists are the mixed ones we did it right!". In reality people are only playing in those because it's the only way to get their gametype of choice. Sorting by population doesn't take into account the amount of incomplete matches caused by quitters who don't get the gametype that they want in the mixed playlists.

 

Also, maybe instead of showing a population counter per-playlist, show an estimated search time next to the playlist.

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I've always wanted bots so I could practice up and git gud. Maybe won day I'll be able to understand the true perfection of the best competitive map in Halo history. I think bots could make it happen. If I act really adult like and git gud. Using those bots. Because I have no friends. Except bots. I feel so arrelavent. I need to git gud. Please bots let me git gud. So I can have friends. It's all I want. I want my Halo friends to like me. Please let me git gud bots. Please awww please. Maybe I can even get gud enough for the almight Sanctuary. Please bots let me git gud.

This is exactly what I'm talking about

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