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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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no conspiracy here pal, i use the given reputation system in accordance with the rules

i wasn't being serious lmao...

 

 Idk how this devolved into so much anger

because you're an angry person?

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i wasn't being serious lmao...

 

because you're an angry person?

Go back to your first response where you started the arguing again please. Didnt 2 people already quote you showing that you were the first one to respond like a dick? And you really misuse the word anger quite a bit. Idk why you assume people are so angry.

 

Then you kept periodically posting sarcastic responses when no one was talking to you and for some reason (just like now) you kept responding to me trying to stir the pot.

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@@Hard Way

 

Is popularity enough to justify a playlist’s existence? It absolutely is.

 

You trying to force people who want to play slayer into a playlist that is a mix of objective and slayer is the same as me forcing you into a playlist with mixed AR starts and BR starts. Look at it like that.

 

Mix OBJ and Slayer in Doubles and BTB? Absolutely. Those aren’t “core” gametypes in the same way Team Slayer is.

 

Don’t you guys always say “don’t mess with a working formula”, like in relation to classic Halo compared to modern Halo? Why are you trying to fuck with a working formula then? I don’t buy your bullshit about “wanting to make players more well rounded”. If some kid wants to run TS 24/7 then fucking let him.

The popularity argument is a hard one to overcome. I know a lot of people will never be swayed from that position, but I’ll try anyways.

 

AR/BR argument doesn’t fly. *Well crafted* obj gametypes are absolutely worthy of playtime. AR starts are fundamentally broken and inferior settings. You can’t say the same about Obj. In fact, we have several pages saying the opposite.

 

4v4 TS is in no way more of a “core” gametype than 4v4 obj. Those are nonsense buzzwords. The TS playlist continues to exist due to sheer precedence. I’d be willing to argue that most players wouldn’t even mind an occasional obj game. Problems arise when they have to choose to play only obj, with bad settings and long wait times.

 

And the case for don’t fix what isn’t broken is compelling until you consider that all but one modes of play ARE broken at the moment (in that you can’t fucking play them), and should be fixed. “If someone wants to only play obj then let them.” Oh wait, you can’t. Because we’ve forced players to make an arbitrary choice and have let the obj gametypes be shitty for a decade+. This is where the selfishness part comes in. “I want my simple gameplay all the time, I don’t want to learn anything, and I don’t care that you can’t play.”

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One thing to consider is:

 

Would the number of people upset about sharing a playlist with GOOD obj gametypes be greater than the number of people thrilled to have a home for their favorite gametypes? I don’t think it’s as grim you’re making it out to be.

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Halo 5 flopped because it's not immerse enough. Halo needs to EVOLVE. I'm talkin' sprint. I'm talkin' ADS. I'm talkin' hero-shooters. I'm talkin' kill-streaks. I'm talkin' air dodging. I'm talkin' kill times which are either 4-5 seconds, or instantaneous. We can't keep holding halo back.

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@@Hard Way

 

I would be willing to argue that the majority of players would be somewhat confused playing objective on any given map. Not knowing where the flags spawn, not knowing where the hill is going to move to next, not knowing the best spots to jump off the map with the Oddball. These are all frustrations that many players don’t want to deal with.

 

4v4 is a core gametype because the majority of the maps are designed for 4v4 and Slayer is the most popular 4v4 gametype so it’s not just a buzzword, it’s the truth, there is no more “core” gametype than 4v4 TS.

 

If objectives are shitty, like you claim, why would you want to force players to play them? Petition for better and more objective gametypes before you try to shove the three, or however many gametypes H5 has, down other players throats who want no part of them.

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Go back to your first response where you started the arguing again please. Didnt 2 people already quote you showing that you were the first one to respond like a dick? And you really misuse the word anger quite a bit. Idk why you assume people are so angry.

 

Then you kept periodically posting sarcastic responses when no one was talking to you and for some reason (just like now) you kept responding to me trying to stir the pot.

I'll have you know I served 1337 successful missions in the Kekistani meme wars of 2016 with over 420 confirmed redpills. Black ops, psyops, intel, counter-intel -- you name it, I did it. At one point I was so far undercover as a (((blackpilled shill))), I forgot which side I was fighting for. You see, I have a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career as a dank meme operative. Skills that make me a #nightmare for people like you.

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What about a version of slayer where you spawn with a 30 sec timer. At the end of the 30 sec you die. Dying doesn't score the enemy team a point but it does cost your team a point. The only way to reset the timer is to get a kill. Getting a kill only resets your timer not your teammates'. I'm just spitballing ideas here. Suggestions welcome.

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I think something that doesn't come up often enough is how many GOOD settings do we actually have to have to eliminate in order for Slayer to become obsolete. Variety might not be that compelling from a competitive standpoint (look at Counter Strike), but I don't think its irrational to have a variety of gametypes.

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@@Hard Way

 

I would be willing to argue that the majority of players would be somewhat confused playing objective on any given map. Not knowing where the flags spawn, not knowing where the hill is going to move to next, not knowing the best spots to jump off the map with the Oddball. These are all frustrations that many players don’t want to deal with.

 

4v4 is a core gametype because the majority of the maps are designed for 4v4 and Slayer is the most popular 4v4 gametype so it’s not just a buzzword, it’s the truth, there is no more “core” gametype than 4v4 TS.

 

If objectives are shitty, like you claim, why would you want to force players to play them? Petition for better and more objective gametypes before you try to shove the three, or however many gametypes H5 has, down other players throats who want no part of them.

What you call frustrations others might call fun new experiences. Don’t forget how big of an impact position at the top of the list of playlists has, or population numbers next to that playlist, or even just historical precedence. All of those things drive players into the TS playlist, but none of them reflect the merit of the gameplay itself, or would lead me to believe that those players wouldn’t enjoy some obj too. How many people mindlessly search what they’re familiar with and never explore playlists? A shitload. That doesn’t mean they’d hate they’re exposure to obj, but asking them to search exclusively for it is often out of the question.

 

“Core” gametypes mean nothing, dude. The maps are designed for obj too. CTF, Hill and Ball have been around since the beginning. They’re “core” too, and they deserve a presence in a playlist. It’s a meaningless word, it adds nothing to your argument, and you should stop using it. TS Pit is no more “core” than CTF Pit.

 

I’m all for improving obj, which I would argue H5 has done for the most part. Certainly default settings over Bungie’s default settings anyway. But I’m not naive enough to think players would go out of their way to play exclusively obj. I think the gametypes belong together and the segregation is silly. There are just as many people that would be delighted by their new experiences and wonder why they didn’t try it sooner as there are people that would be furious over having to learn something new.

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What you call frustrations others might call fun new experiences.

There are just as many people that would be delighted by their new experiences and wonder why they didn’t try it sooner

You obviously know better than all these other players that choose to play only team slayer.

 

Maybe they only play a few games a week and don’t want to waste the little leisure time they have learning the order and location of the five hills on every map.

 

And you know this is coming from someone who wants to expand objective, bigger Invasion, mixed objectives in one gametype.

 

Is why I wanted to add objective elements to slayer gametypes making any more sense to you now?

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You obviously know better than all these other players that choose to play only team slayer.

 

Maybe they only play a few games a week and don’t want to waste the little leisure time they have learning the order and location of the five hills on every map.

 

And you know this is coming from someone who wants to expand objective, bigger Invasion, mixed objectives in one gametype.

 

Is why I wanted to add objective elements to slayer gametypes making any more sense to you now?

I’ve said my peace and I acknowledge that I’m probably not going to win people over from the popularity argument. We can agree to disagree on this one.

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I’ve said my peace and I acknowledge that I’m probably not going to win people over from the popularity argument. We can agree to disagree on this one.

What is your opinion on the casual player not wanting to learn all the new objectives? Is it better to have players quit out or stop trying because they were forced into a gametype they didn’t want to play or is it better to have all those players be able to play together in a gametype they do want to play?

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What is your opinion on the casual player not wanting to learn all the new objectives? Is it better to have players quit out or stop trying because they were forced into a gametype they didn’t want to play or is it better to have all those players be able to play together in a gametype they do want to play?

My opinion is that if the gametypes are presented as a package deal, they won’t have an issue with it. They’ll play what they’re given and not question it much.

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My opinion that if the gametypes are presented as a package deal, they won’t have an issue with it. They’ll play what they’re given and not question it much.

I feel like a hypocrite because I argued the same point on map selection (vote vs veto vs no player selection and I was in favor of no player selection) but I think that forcing different maps on players is a completely different beast than forcing different gametypes on players. At the basic level a map is just a place to run around in. A gametype has a bunch of rules you have to learn.

 

I know you could argue that a map has its own tricks and secrets to it too but I just think that changing the rules is like asking a track runner to start playing wide receiver. They both involve running but you gotta learn a lot more rules for the latter.

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I feel like a hypocrite because I argued the same point on map selection (vote vs veto vs no player selection and I was in favor of no player selection) but I think that forcing different maps on players is a completely different beast than forcing different gametypes on players. At the basic level a map is just a place to run around in. A gametype has a bunch of rules you have to learn.

 

I know you could argue that a map has its own tricks and secrets to it too but I just think that changing the rules is like asking a track runner to start playing wide receiver. They both involve running but you gotta learn a lot more rules for the latter.

I think if you did it from the beginning of a new game, when people are most receptive to it, there would be very little backlash because it would be accepted as the way that it is. If SMG starts can be accepted as the way the game is supposed to be played, so can a playlist that features every standard 4v4 mode. Later in a game’s lifespan it’s harder, for sure, but it’s not like those players have NEVER played obj. Maybe they don’t go out of their way to search for it most of the time, but it wouldn’t be like teaching a fish to walk.

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I agree, but I’d also like to see TS become a Game 5 or 7 only gametype, and use 1 minute powerups that can’t be burned. Then balance the OS so that one perfect magazine from the magnum will kill, and put OS and Camo on every map with static timers. Slayer needs a higher frequency of item spawns, especially powerups since they’re time sensitive and can’t be used passively.

 

Halo 1 had it right. We never should have fucked with it.

 

 

Sooo...just me, right? Just say it dude, we can talk about it.

 

The only thing it has going for it is popularity. Maybe that’s enough to justify its existence. Maybe that’s why I don’t get to make these decisions. But I find it frustrating that its popularity (and the sense of entitlement brought on by its popularity) DIRECTLY chokes out the experience I want to have. Oh, they wouldn’t get to have exactly what they want 100% of the time? I already don’t get to have exactly what I want at all.

 

So the argument for a Team Slayer playlist (which comes directly at the cost of a healthy obj playlist, as we know) is literally just “its popular”, which don’t get me wrong, is a very strong argument, but it’s the only one.

 

Whereas the reasons to combine them:

Players that want to play obj actually can

It consolidates playlists and gives faster matches

Players become more rounded players and experience all of the game’s content

I don’t think the majority of players would mind

Separating Slayer from obj when you know full well that obj will die on its own, just so you don’t have to grow as a player, is selfish and lazy

Slayer only would make an excellent rotational playlist

 

It’s the most logical way to organize playlists. I think most players would be fine with it. The only backlash comes from whiny, entitled players that would rather fuck over their fellow players because of their own unwillingness to develop as a player. It sounds harsh but I’m not wrong.

Halo 1 did have it right. Know what else it did right? It was 2vs2 which is soooo much more balanced in a game like Halo with long average kill times.

 

If you made the OS weak enough to get 12 shotted, it wouldn't be worth picking up in Halo 5 because 3 people could instantly melt it. You dont have that problem in 2vs2. If you make it strong enough to withstand 3 people teamshooting, then you're fucked if you're not holding hands which takes away a lot of individual skill.

 

2vs2 was the ideal gametype for Halo. When a single person is 50% of their team, you can do so much more by yourself. Everything you do is twice as impactful and twice as detrimental. It sucks that 2vs2 will only ever be considered "half of real Halo" now. Ninja had a really good post once and he said Halo is 100x better when its 2vs2 instead of 4vs4.

 

And furthermore, H1 2vs2 was slayer but the powerups acted as objectives. It was everything in 1.

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Sorry for interrupting this team slayer v. objectives shouting match, but 12 hours ago Frankie made another uplifting comment on reddit. In response to a comment saying that Frankies "what happened"-essay was focused on matchmaking and NAT/networking, and unclear whether also game-specific bugs (e.g. everything on halobugs.com for H1) would be fixed, Frankie wrote the following (emphasis added):
 

There are known issues (and emergent ones) with Campaign, game saves and more, as I mentioned in the article, all bugs are being looked at, not just network and matchmaking. There are a couple of bugs that are original to the first iteration of the game too, but those will sit in a different spotlight as we work through it. We won't ignore anything, but for obvious reasons we're being cagey about making promises. That said we'll certainly detail the majority of fixes at time of release (and enhancements).

 

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/77q13s/halo_mcc_what_happened_and_what_happens_next/dos2myd/?context=3

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Just for the record, we're talking about slayer being slow in the context of modern Halo being fucking garbage, right?

 

Because a game of TS in CE, especially 4v4, is the literal opposite of slow. (So, fast I think)

 

Fix the game and TS gets fixed.

unless its damnation*

 

But yeah priz, chilly, wizard, and dere can be 3 minute games.

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unless its damnation*

 

But yeah priz, chilly, wizard, and dere can be 3 minute games.

As someone that LANs H1 4v4 every time I go home on leave, one of the things I’m most grateful for with NHE v7 is the 100 kill limit. It makes 4v4 TS sooooo much better.

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Halo 1 did have it right. Know what else it did right? It was 2vs2 which is soooo much more balanced in a game like Halo with long average kill times.

 

If you made the OS weak enough to get 12 shotted, it wouldn't be worth picking up in Halo 5 because 3 people could instantly melt it. You dont have that problem in 2vs2. If you make it strong enough to withstand 3 people teamshooting, then you're fucked if you're not holding hands which takes away a lot of individual skill.

 

2vs2 was the ideal gametype for Halo. When a single person is 50% of their team, you can do so much more by yourself. Everything you do is twice as impactful and twice as detrimental. It sucks that 2vs2 will only ever be considered "half of real Halo" now. Ninja had a really good post once and he said Halo is 100x better when its 2vs2 instead of 4vs4.

 

And furthermore, H1 2vs2 was slayer but the powerups acted as objectives. It was everything in 1.

Yes, OS is less powerful in 4v4, but if it’s coming up every minute and it can’t be burned, it’s still highly sought after. If you think you can win a 4v4 by just baiting OS every minute, more power to you, but I’m telling you from experience it’s still a hell of an asset.

 

Edit: talking about 12sk OS.

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Sorry for interrupting this team slayer v. objectives shouting match, but 12 hours ago Frankie made another uplifting comment on reddit. In response to a comment saying that Frankies "what happened"-essay was focused on matchmaking and NAT/networking, and unclear whether also game-specific bugs (e.g. everything on halobugs.com for H1) would be fixed, Frankie wrote the following (emphasis added):

 

 

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/77q13s/halo_mcc_what_happened_and_what_happens_next/dos2myd/?context=3

 

That's great news! Really hoping they look at everything that makes the MCC not play like the original games.

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That's great news! Really hoping they look at everything that makes the MCC not play like the original games.

For C. E. they should just patch in NHE
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