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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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On the topic of oddball, Damnation is one of those maps that I bet would have been great for oddball if it wasn't for the quality-of-life issues oddball has in H1. Indeed, a brief analysis of H1 Damnation oddball is a great way to show just how much small things such as oddball physics, default ball placement, and respawn time has on the playability of a map/gametype.

 

Let's first dissect what is problematic with Damnation Oddball. Although the map may seem like a great oddball map from a pure level design perspective, with its many distinct areas and wide variety of potential strategies, similar to Chill Out and Lockout, small issues make it practically unplayable in a competitive settings.

 

There are, in my opinion, three minor issues that together causes Damnation Oddball to be unplayable. First, the ball spawn point: in the middle of waterfall. It is very difficult, with the H1 kill times and effective range of the pistol, to grab and get the ball away from waterfall. You basically need to slay the entire enemy team, hope they get the worst possible spawn (bottom green?), and have great timing on the pickup. Failing that, the ball will go out of bounds. This leads to the second point, namely that the ball respawn time for the ball is way too long in H1. Don't remember how how long, but easily 30 seconds. The entire game thus stalls as soon as the ball falls off waterfall (which happens often). "Play ball" tactics, which are a calculated gamble in e.g. H2 Lockout due to the quick ball respawn instead become 30 second timeouts. Third, the ball physics makes the ball bounce wildly when hit by a grenade. This will often cause the ball to go out of bounds even if it is possible to get it away from waterfall, and then you are back to square one.

 

Oddball Damnation would have played out completely different if these three things were different. Imagine the following: First, the ball is put in a more neutral position, where it is still open, but easier to move the ball into cover (in front of shotguns, perhaps?). Second, if the ball physics were H2 style, the ball wouldn't go out of bounds randomly as often as it does today. Third, a H2-style ball respawn time would make "play ball" tactics require much better time and have higher risk/reward factor than the "30 second timeout" effect present in H1 oddball today. Taken together, this could potentially have made H1 Oddball Damnation awesome. Indeed, the "Reverse Tag" gametype MLG used for damnation, which is kind of "oddball without a ball", gives us some indication that it could work.

 

 

Yeah, the play ball time makes oddball a no-go on any map with an abyss.  We learned that playing Imminent. Oh my God, worst game ever. It quickly became apparent that one team would win, so the other team made it their goal to play ball as many times as possible.  I don't even think we finished the game.

 

If you want to play ball on a map with an abyss, just play Reverse Tag. It's just as good.

Do you think Oddball would play better on maps with an "abyss" if 1) the Oddball respawn time was reduced to 10 seconds, and 2) if the Oddball spawn point was randomized (think Crazy KOTH) ?

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I think randomizing an objective location is bad competitive design. It's fine for party games but both teams should know where to go.

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I think randomizing an objective location is bad competitive design. It's fine for party games but both teams should know where to go.

Should be like a 5-10 sec respawn and maybe not spawn in waterfalls. Shotties or pit maybe.

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Just when we thought the ceiling of skill curve has been met, a new level of skill unfolds.  The game has now evolved such that nades in CE are now used to blow weapons in front of rocket just they are about to pull the trigger.

 

You heard correct.  Why risk getting shot by rox when you can now strategically nade weapons in front of where you are predicting the opposition to shoot the rocket. The timing is no different than nading a powerup.  Practicing nade throws at various weapons and knowing their specific flight path after being naded is key.  There are enough weapons scattered on the map such that you should never be in position to not have a weapon to nade at your disposal.  Simply nade a weapon so that the path of the weapon passes right by their sights before they shoot their rocket.  The result is a suicide due to splash damage caused by the rocket hitting the flying weapon right in front of them.  The halo CE engine has excellent physics.  Learn to use them to increase your level of skill and be prepared to receive messages from the opposition that you are hacking making the rocket kill them when they pull the trigger.  Rockets is now useless unless you have camo to accompany them.   :)

 

Montages showing double kills, double melees, stickies etc are now pointless.  It's all about showing your command of geometry and knowing how to kill the opposition with their own rockets.  One of the common ones is when the guy picks up rox in chilly and immediately shoots the camo bridge in anticipating the camo guy coming out that way.  Time and time again he kills himself because a plasma rifle was conveniently naded in front of his shot just before he pulls the trigger.  

 

What a novice.

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I don't know where to post this but Halo: Reach backwards compatibility update is out - fixes frame rate issues at last.

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I don't know where to post this but Halo: Reach backwards compatibility update is out - fixes frame rate issues at last.

 

yeah I posted it in the HCS thread, but I think it would have been better off here. Do you follow this guy? If not you should. https://twitter.com/wcstillwell

 

thats who I get my BC info from.

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I don't know where to post this but Halo: Reach backwards compatibility update is out - fixes frame rate issues at last.

 

I wouldn't describe the issues as "framerate" but more like "input lag".

 

Is it playable now? I could hardly aim properly last time I tried.

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I wouldn't describe the issues as "framerate" but more like "input lag".

 

Is it playable now? I could hardly aim properly last time I tried.

Frame rate absolutely had some horrible issues too. The game felt like it was running in slow motion sometimes but yeah, the input lag is also gone. 

 

Absolutely playable now.

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Frame rate absolutely had some horrible issues too. The game felt like it was running in slow motion sometimes but yeah, the input lag is also gone. 

 

Absolutely playable now.

 

I don't see it reported anywhere online? I'll try it when I get home

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Do you think Oddball would play better on maps with an "abyss" if 1) the Oddball respawn time was reduced to 10 seconds, and 2) if the Oddball spawn point was randomized (think Crazy KOTH) ?

Ball respawn should be 3 seconds or less, non random.

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I don't know where to post this but Halo: Reach backwards compatibility update is out - fixes frame rate issues at last.

 

I have never been able to play this. My xbox always says that it cannot read the disc. Does anyone else have the same problem? 

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Anyone play H2/H3 customs? Been getting back into MCC lately.. takes forever getting a match in team hardcore though :(

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Anyone play H2/H3 customs? Been getting back into MCC lately.. takes forever getting a match in team hardcore though :(

I play every once in awhile with the Lost in Time boys. They can always find people on playing H2.

Skols can probably hit you up with discord information to find some people.

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I have never been able to play this. My xbox always says that it cannot read the disc. Does anyone else have the same problem? 

Sounds like your disc is too messed up?

 

I'd honestly just pick it up digitally.

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Reading the page One hype for this game makes me churn with cringe. Halo's Fate has been an unsightly mess

Pretty despressing really, we were so hyped for this game.

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Watching these guys play REAL Halo 1 multi, even though it's the slightly rough 360 emulation, I can instantly see the difference vs. PC/MCC. The lighting, the shaders, the snappy gameplay, the clean HUD. They got it right in 2001, and not ONCE since.

 

1:18:35

 

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Sounds like your disc is too messed up?

 

I'd honestly just pick it up digitally.

 

It still works in my 360. It more accurately says something along the lines off "this disc is not supported." It is pretty bizarre considering I my xbox is up to date and everything. 

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