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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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You cannot factually state that the mentality of the average gamer has changed, there is no way. Unless you somehow surveyed every gamer from before and after whatever's time period you are talking about.

 

And are you kidding me? LeBron re-joining the Cavs made the Finals way more competitive. If he wasn't on the team they wouldn't have even come close to the Finals. The only reason they won was literally him. Im not even gonna get into old school stuff because that's gonna be an essay. But the single season record for wins was held by the Bulls so why the hell would MJ leave? His team was stacked already. Lol and who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors in the Finals? That team made history and they lost to an average team. All the people in the leagues are there for a reason. Everyone thought the Heat would be untouchable for at least 5 years and look what happened.

 

I'm not sure what side of the argument I'm on here. I think kids today are definitely softer and only care about individual accomplishment thanks to the reward structures in current games. When you look at the most popular games in the 90s and early 2000s they were more punishing.

 

But on the other hand a lot of those more hardcore players were just on PC, and FPS was not popular on console yet. So I don't think those people ever went away, they're just mostly on PC, and the majority of console players are soft and probably always have been and that market is being catered to on console.

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We don't need to wait until he retires to make a judgment.

The finals are not the end all be all reason as to why MJ is arguably the GOAT (KAJ and Wilt are the other 2 guys that you can make a case for) but Lebron does not have a case for GOAT if that is what you are trying to imply. That ship set sail a long time ago.

 

You don't look at finals wins, you look at finals wins as the man. We aren't talking about Robert Horry here.

 

If you think you can just over look the fact that MJ is undefeated in finals play while leading his team to victory each and ever single time he was ever in the finals, you are mistaken. Lebron was on a staked heat team for 4 years and he was only successful 2/4 times. It pales in comparison to MJ.

 

When did Michael Jordan ever have a player like Kyrie Irving?

When did MJ have a player that put up 41 points on 17/24 shooting in the finals? You do realize that 41 points on 71.4% fg is one of the greatest finals performances in NBA history, right? Search all the data you want on Pippen, you won't find anything even close to what Kyrie did in that finals game. No Kyrie, and the Cavs don't beat GSW.

 

When did MJ ever have a teammate that did that?

 

You can easily make the argument for MJ that the only reason why the Bulls made it to the finals was because of him. When have they ever made the finals without him?

 

Any Lebron vs MJ argument is long over before it is even started. Any basketball forum will have a majority of people that agree with this statement.

When did MJ have someone like Kyrie? Lol. Pippen, Kerr and Rodman are some pretty damn good players don't you think? Look at the 06-07 Cavs that LeBron brought to the Finals. If you are so close minded that you think "the argument is over before it started" then there s no point in continuing. People like Colin Cowered have covered this topic and many more people as well. But whatever this is OT
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I'm not sure what side of the argument I'm on here. I think kids today are definitely softer and only care about individual accomplishment thanks to the reward structures in current games. When you look at the most popular games in the 90s and early 2000s they were more punishing.

 

But on the other hand a lot of those more hardcore players were just on PC, and FPS was not popular on console yet. So I don't think those people ever went away, they're just mostly on PC, and the majority of console players are soft and probably always have been and that market is being catered to on console.

Sure, the games were more punishing, but that doesn't mean the average player cared about competition. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But unless there is hard evidence suggesting this it is all speculation. Playing video games for fun is nothing new.

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So yesterday I matched to 50's in Team H2A. Does this game actually use the H2 ranking system? If so thats a pretty big accomplishment, even if the game allows easier ranking up due to the poor skill matching and lack of party restricitions.

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So yesterday I matched to 50's in Team H2A. Does this game actually use the H2 ranking system? If so thats a pretty big accomplishment, even if the game allows easier ranking up due to the poor skill matching and lack of party restricitions.

No party restrictions make the ranks pointless

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No party restrictions make the ranks pointless

 

I like that avatar of yours!

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Sure, the games were more punishing, but that doesn't mean the average player cared about competition. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. But unless there is hard evidence suggesting this it is all speculation. Playing video games for fun is nothing new.

People didn't play Quake to get easy kills and fuck around in it like it's Mario Party. It just wasn't designed like that.

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People didn't play Quake to get easy kills and fuck around in it like it's Mario Party. It just wasn't designed like that.

 

CE was designed as a party game and is proof that it is possible to deliver a game that caters to competitive players as well as casual players looking to just mess around. Below-the-surface elements of the meta (player spawn manipulation, weapon timing, nade tricks, etc) may never be discovered by the casual player, but their existence has allowed the meta to evolve continuously over more than a decade.

 

All the following entries in the series removed or obfuscated many of the predictable/exploitable elements that Halo's core gameplay was built around and effectively narrowed the metagame by doing so.

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CE was designed as a party game and is proof that it is possible to deliver a game that caters to competitive players as well as casual players looking to just mess around. Below-the-surface elements of the meta (player spawn manipulation, weapon timing, nade tricks, etc) may never be discovered by the casual player, but their existence has allowed the meta to evolve continuously over more than a decade.

 

All the following entries in the series removed or obfuscated many of the predictable/exploitable elements that Halo's core gameplay was built around and effectively narrowed the metagame by doing so.

 

I fully understand that and think it is a big selling point of CE :) I'm just responding specifically about PC shooters in the 90s which were not party games at all imo. There was no room to be a casual player like there is with Halo which has swung too far to the party side.

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Tried playing BTB yesterday. It was searching for players for an hour. Is the game that dead?

I doubt it. BTB always seemed to take the longest to find games in MCC even when the March patch that fixed some issues was released. It would always find a few players then restart search. MCC varies so wildly between players that it is hard telling.

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People didn't play Quake to get easy kills and fuck around in it like it's Mario Party. It just wasn't designed like that.

Quake wasn't the only video game at the time either. That's just one particular audience.

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CE was designed as a party game and is proof that it is possible to deliver a game that caters to competitive players as well as casual players looking to just mess around. Below-the-surface elements of the meta (player spawn manipulation, weapon timing, nade tricks, etc) may never be discovered by the casual player, but their existence has allowed the meta to evolve continuously over more than a decade.

 

All the following entries in the series removed or obfuscated many of the predictable/exploitable elements that Halo's core gameplay was built around and effectively narrowed the metagame by doing so.

 

Good points but a game has to be interesting enough and good enough to the core so that there is strong desire to play it to the necessary depth to uncover such things.  The game was a big step up for console competitive gaming and 15+ years later we still don't have anything that can touch it.  If there was a better competitive game to be played, they'd be playing it at the next beach LAN instead of Halo CE :)

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I doubt it. BTB always seemed to take the longest to find games in MCC even when the March patch that fixed some issues was released. It would always find a few players then restart search. MCC varies so wildly between players that it is hard telling.

Except BTB used to be the playlist that I found players the fastest.

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Good points but a game has to be interesting enough and good enough to the core so that there is strong desire to play it to the necessary depth to uncover such things.  The game was a big step up for console competitive gaming and 15+ years later we still don't have anything that can touch it.  If there was a better competitive game to be played, they'd be playing it at the next beach LAN instead of Halo CE :)

 

Well that goes without saying - of course a game needs to offer a solid-enough experience to engage its first group of competitive players. But that's not a problem for most modern games. The problem is keeping those competitive players, and that's where all the below-the-surface depth pays off. I'm pretty sure we're arguing the same thing here, forgive me I haven't read through this whole debate.

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Would it be correct to say the only solace I get from MCC is that its the only game I don't have to update before playing when I've been away for a month?

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https://youtu.be/Qne0WBfCuj8?t=11m12s

 

 

 

pc port of MCC? haven't seen mentioned of this anywhere, very interesting.

 

Halo Online's engine is essentially a modified MCC ODST engine with a butch of gen 3 assets thrown in, so its been known for a while that at least part of MCC is on PC even without any apparent leaks.

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But the MCC is a port of the PC games. This seems like we're going in circles here.

 

Yes, but the original PC games out of the box are horseshit.

 

Halo PC has multiplayer that is literally designed around 56k dial-up connections. Its hot garbage without modifications community members like @stunt_man have put together and formulated.

 

Halo 2 on Xbox used 64 MB of RAM. Halo 2 Vista realistically requires 2+GB of RAM to even hope to brute force past performance problems. And unless you use external programs like @PermaNull 's H2Online, you're going to have to deal with awful DRM and no online capabilities.

 

MCC also includes Halo 3/ODST and Halo 4, which, you know, would also be nice to have on PC.

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I like that avatar of yours!

It'll be there until the game is fixed.

 

 

So it'll be there forever.

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