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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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Except that OW has a skill based ranking system, and it works better than our last 4 Halo games, arguably every Halo game when you factor in being lvl 25 to play ranked pretty much eliminates alts and boosting.

It's not really all that difficult to be better at anything that recent Halos have done.

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It's not really all that difficult to be better at anything that recent Halos have done.

Except Forge. Forge is dope.
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Well to be fair it's a trend that isn't particularly popular among players of classic arena-style shooters, who value gameplay where everyone starts on an even playing field and the only determining factors in terms of winning/losing come down to map movement and manipulating exploitable elements of a deep meta. To me it seems a little too convenient that the class-based shooter genre just so happens to cater to a huge demographic. It's almost as if it's a genre that was engineered to appeal to a vast audience of players who require constant validation and a progression-based XP system rather than a skill-based ranking system.

Honestly I'm glad the market isn't full of skill based arena competitive shooters. It's an unpopular opinion but I enjoy the fact that games like CoD, Battlefield, and OW are on the market. It's a COMPLETELY different experience and tends to be a more social game. I enjoy competitive games that require you to be competent and skillful. But there is a completely different feel that you get from ranking up, buying new guns or items and making your character you. That is NOT a bad thing. The only problem is that those games have taken over the FPS market and that's where a lot of the hate comes from. And in the end what is the point of bitching about a form of FPS? Quake and Battlefield were never made to be alike and going out of your way to hate a Battlefield/OW/CoD game is asinine.
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Honestly I'm glad the market isn't full of skill based arena competitive shooters. It's an unpopular opinion but I enjoy the fact that games like CoD, Battlefield, and OW are on the market. It's a COMPLETELY different experience and tends to be a more social game. I enjoy competitive games that require you to be competent and skillful. But there is a completely different feel that you get from ranking up, buying new guns or items and making your character you. That is NOT a bad thing. The only problem is that those games have taken over the FPS market and that's where a lot of the hate comes from. And in the end what is the point of bitching about a form of FPS? Quake and Battlefield were never made to be alike and going out of your way to hate a Battlefield/OW/CoD game is asinine.

I didn't say that the game is bad, I said that you shouldn't be surprised that competitive Halo don't enjoy that type of gameplay. And then I made an observation about a genre that I don't care for. You're entitled to your opinion but saying that I'm going out of my way to dislike Overwatch is like saying I'm going out of my way to dislike a golf sports game or x other genre I don't care for.

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I didn't say that the game is bad, I said that you shouldn't be surprised that competitive Halo don't enjoy that type of gameplay. And then I made an observation about a genre that I don't care for. You're entitled to your opinion but saying that I'm going out of my way to dislike Overwatch is like saying I'm going out of my way to dislike a golf sports game or x other genre I don't care for.

I didn't mean you specifically. I meant the more elitist minds within this forums. I'm not at all surprised though.

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My problem with the XP progression grind, unlock-driven games is that they don't incentivize winning.  Like it doesn't matter at all.  I'm a HUGE Battlefield fan, but I can't tell you how many games have been ruined because everyone wants to snipe from a million meters out.  Or people fighting over heli's and jets.  I've lost so many games because our assaults wanted to bring noob tubes instead of reviving their teammates.  So much of that type of game-ruining behavior is born out of an emphasis on personal stats and challenges, and a distinct lack of motivation to actually play the game optimally.

I wrote an article on this a couple years ago if anyone cares to read it.  It's linked in my sig.

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My problem with the XP progression grind, unlock-driven games is that they don't incentivize winning.  Like it doesn't matter at all.  I'm a HUGE Battlefield fan, but I can't tell you how many games have been ruined because everyone wants to snipe from a million meters out.  Or people fighting over heli's and jets.  I've lost so many games because our assaults wanted to bring noob tubes instead of reviving their teammates.  So much of that type of game-ruining behavior is born out of an emphasis on personal stats and challenges, and a distinct lack of motivation to actually play the game optimally.

 

I wrote an article on this a couple years ago if anyone cares to read it.  It's linked in my sig.

 

I completely agree with this and to that end, I think 343 deserves some credit for the complete lack of fucking stupid multiplayer achievements in Halo 5. They are almost exclusively "win some games in a mode," as opposed to the "get this extremely specific kind of kill in this extremely specific situation" crap that previous games had that resulted in people going into match-making not to win, but to get dumb achievements.

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My problem with the XP progression grind, unlock-driven games is that they don't incentivize winning.  Like it doesn't matter at all.  I'm a HUGE Battlefield fan, but I can't tell you how many games have been ruined because everyone wants to snipe from a million meters out.  Or people fighting over heli's and jets.  I've lost so many games because our assaults wanted to bring noob tubes instead of reviving their teammates.  So much of that type of game-ruining behavior is born out of an emphasis on personal stats and challenges, and a distinct lack of motivation to actually play the game optimally.

 

I wrote an article on this a couple years ago if anyone cares to read it.  It's linked in my sig.

 

PREACH!!!

 

Awesome article btw.

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My problem with the XP progression grind, unlock-driven games is that they don't incentivize winning. Like it doesn't matter at all. I'm a HUGE Battlefield fan, but I can't tell you how many games have been ruined because everyone wants to snipe from a million meters out. Or people fighting over heli's and jets. I've lost so many games because our assaults wanted to bring noob tubes instead of reviving their teammates. So much of that type of game-ruining behavior is born out of an emphasis on personal stats and challenges, and a distinct lack of motivation to actually play the game optimally.

 

I wrote an article on this a couple years ago if anyone cares to read it. It's linked in my sig.

That's another thing Halo 3 did really well (bar some achievements). You could only see one star for yourself AND everyone else, and that was wins in relation to total games. It really incentivized winning in that game. And then shortly after they implemented KD and all that garbage and the games became more about statting and ranking up because those were the prominent stats. It's really a shame especially in ranked games.
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Thank you!

Fully agree on the awesome article. I just read it again and the last part about the MCC made me die a little on the inside.

 

It was really supposed to be return to glory and unlike H5 it actually had potential to be a "game for s new generation of Halo players". So sad that 343 decided to just shit all over that idea and have one of the worst launches of video game history instead.

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Fully agree on the awesome article. I just read it again and the last part about the MCC made me die a little on the inside.

 

It was really supposed to be return to glory and unlike H5 it actually had potential to be a "game for s new generation of Halo players". So sad that 343 decided to just shit all over that idea and have one of the worst launches of video game history instead.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed it.  That article had been building up inside me for a long time, and I'm really glad Beyond featured it.  And yeah, the last part is tough to read nowadays.  Very sad.

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I just started playing Halo 1 more on MCC and I was wondering if any Halo 1 experts could tell me what the deal with the pistol is.

 

I swear that I have multiple times each game where I have to shoot someone (without overshield) like 8 times with a pistol to kill them. Is this part of the game design or is it just bugginess/lag?

 

It only takes you 8 times?  Sometimes it takes full clips for me and yet the same exact situation in LAN, it would take at a max, 3-4 shots to kill someone.

 

The problem is people with bad trailer park connections are hosting or you are playing on an overseas hosts.  343 outsourced the development of the game to a group of novice 3rd party programmers who thought it would be a good idea to make their fellow Americans play on a shitty foreign hosts instead of designing the network such that Euros play with Euros and those in the US get matched up with others in the US.  

 

Most of the level 50 ranks in this game would get destroyed on LAN.  You can just tell by their horrible map control and placement on the maps at various times in the game.  They are level 50 because shots don't register on their horrible connections while they 3 shot you like it's nothing.

 

Can they be beaten despite it taking a full pistol clip to kill them?  Sure, but the game takes longer and it's not realistic relative to how the game was meant to be played.

 

Game developers are blacklisted from making halo CE function online like it does on LAN because that would eliminate the bs factor that allows bad kids to get kills.  Games that would be 50-5 or 50-3 in LAN are instead 50-45 on MCC.  Kids would feel inadequate after getting hosed so bad and resort to shooting up their local schools.   We can't make games anymore that have high skill curves with bs lag factor removed.  That's too much for present day society and mindsets LOL.

 

15+ years after the making of Halo CE and we still don't have a game that is better all things considered.

 

If I'm a top video game programmer in 2016 and I can't outdo a group of guys who make a game using 15+ year old technology.... I'd just find a new career path.

 

The one game in this history of gaming that should have been ported correctly and it was a complete clusterfuck.

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My problem with the XP progression grind, unlock-driven games is that they don't incentivize winning.  Like it doesn't matter at all.  I'm a HUGE Battlefield fan, but I can't tell you how many games have been ruined because everyone wants to snipe from a million meters out.  Or people fighting over heli's and jets.  I've lost so many games because our assaults wanted to bring noob tubes instead of reviving their teammates.  So much of that type of game-ruining behavior is born out of an emphasis on personal stats and challenges, and a distinct lack of motivation to actually play the game optimally.

 

I wrote an article on this a couple years ago if anyone cares to read it.  It's linked in my sig.

 

Exactly Zach.  These game devs are making games just to sell copies to appease a softer generation of gamers that go in to it with an instant gratification mindset.  They just want to put time in to unlock things instead of building up skill to become better than their opponent.

 

"But I don't wanna learn how to get good at a game, I just wanna play for fun because it's a GAME!"

 

This attitude and outlook on gaming is pure horseshit.

 

Let's just have people walk off the street and start playing pro sports since after all, sports "are a game" and meant to be fun.

 

Suddenly when we put it into perspective, people see past their horrid logic and come to their senses that their lazy mindset of instant gratification and desire to solely "have fun" is what ruins the gaming industry.  Competitiveness and "fun" in gaming should always go hand in hand in games that are multiplayer.

 

Are we really shocked that the newer generations of gamers have moved away from this correct mindset?  

 

Look at the role models these kids have today like Kevin Durant.  "Well, GSW beat me in the WCF last year so I'm just going to join forces with that team so that we are stacked."

 

LOL what a joke.  Thank goodness I got to experience gaming and pro sports when it was pure before it became watered down to appease anyone with a checking account.

 

 

I'm sure they did tell them to use the Xbox code but that's not their decision at all. It is much cheaper to base it on the PC code. Dollars are what counts to Microsoft. Nothing Bravo could have said would have overruled this.

 

I agree that it's stupid to think Brav and Ghost being at 343 would have any bearing on decisions there.

 
Then the whole concept of being a community manager should just be thrown out the window as the idea behind it is to communicate to the organization they work for the opinions and concerns of the consumers.
 
Consumer: Make halo CE on MCC based on Xbox code
Bravo: Hey Frankie, make halo CE on MCC based on Xbox code
Frankie to dev team:  Make halo CE on MCC based on PC code... it's cheaper.
 
If the consumers voice is trumped by manufacture cost, then what is the point of a community manager but to give the perception that the consumers voice is being heard, when really it is not.

 

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Exactly Zach. These game devs are making games just to sell copies to appease a softer generation of gamers that go in to it with an instant gratification mindset. They just want to put time in to unlock things instead of building up skill to become better than their opponent.

 

"But I don't wanna learn how to get good at a game, I just wanna play for fun because it's a GAME!"

 

This attitude and outlook on gaming is pure horseshit.

 

Let's just have people walk off the street and start playing pro sports since after all, sports "are a game" and meant to be fun.

 

Suddenly when we put it into perspective, people see past their horrid logic and come to their senses that their lazy mindset of instant gratification and desire to solely "have fun" is what ruins the gaming industry. Competitiveness and "fun" in gaming should always go hand in hand in games that are multiplayer.

 

Are we really shocked that the newer generations of gamers have moved away from this correct mindset?

 

Look at the role models these kids have today like Kevin Durant. "Well, GSW beat me in the WCF last year so I'm just going to join forces with that team so that we are stacked."

 

LOL what a joke. Thank goodness I got to experience gaming and pro sports when it was pure before it became watered down to appease anyone with a checking account.

iagree with some of your points, but good God you have such a condescending attitude. People wanting to play a video game for fun is fine. It's meant to be fun, and a majority of gamers don't really care about competitive gaming. Now, games could be made with more competitive mechanics, that's something I do believe. All that companies would have to do is make a good ranking system.

 

Also, let's not try and say pro sports players aren't competitive any more lol. KD has always put his heart and souls into OKC and he just wants to win. The people you should be getting mad at are the complacent max contract players that just get big bucks and lose.

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iagree with some of your points, but good God you have one of the most "holier that thou" complexes. People wanting to play a video game for fun is fine. It's meant to be fun, and a majority of gamers don't really care about competitive gaming. Now, games could be made with more competitive mechanics, that's something I do believe. All that companies would have to do is make a good ranking system.

 

Also, let's not try and say pro sports players aren't competitive any more lol. KD has always put his heart and souls into OKC and he just wants to win. The people you should be getting mad at are the complacent max contract players that just get big bucks and lose.

 

I don't have a "holier than thou" complex, I'm telling you how the gaming industry has evolved and how the mindsets of your average gamer has evolved.  This is fact and nothing more.

 

If you want to play a single player video game for fun, that's great but watering down a multiplayer game so that you can appease this "I just wanna have fun mindset" while others are trying to have a competitive gaming experience.....

 

No thanks.  

 

"he just wants to win"

 

Do you think Kobe didn't want to just win?  Why did he stay with the same team for 20 years?  Why did he have Shaq taken off the team because he wanted to prove to the world that he could win without him?  

 

Why didn't MJ, Bird and Magic join forces?

 

Because players back in the 90s had pride and believed in rivalries.  We moved on from the 80's Celtics vs Lakers bullshit dynasties, now we are right back there with this Cavs vs GSW shit.  And this is coming from someone that is a born and raised Cleveland that just watched his team win.  It's only been 52 years since CLE won a chip, but let's not pretend that the Cavs were not the most expensive team in the league this year because they were.   I guess after 52 years of fail we had to pull out every trick in the book to make it happen.

 

Lebron James joining forces with Wade and Bosh (both players were top 4 in PER in the entire league when Lebron joined them) is competitive?

Lebron James joining the Cavs after they won the very first pick in the draft 3 out of the last 4 years, and TWO #4 picks in the draft is being competitive?

 

No, it's called guaranteed finals appearances by playing in a weak eastern conference.

 

KD joining GSW is a joke.

 

David Stern veto of the Chris Paul trade to lakers in 2011 was keeping the league competitive.

 

Do we really think that the 2017 finals won't be Cavs vs GSW?

 

Do we really think 343 will ever make a game better than Halo CE?

 

Things being so predictable is boring.

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I don't have a "holier than thou" complex, I'm telling you how the gaming industry has evolved and how the mindsets of your average gamer has evolved. This is fact and nothing more.

 

If you want to play a single player video game for fun, that's great but watering down a multiplayer game so that you can appease this "I just wanna have fun mindset"?

 

No thanks.

 

"he just wants to win"

 

Do you think Kobe didn't want to just win? Why did he stay with the same team for 20 years? Why did he have Shaq taken off the team because he wanted to prove to the world that he could win without him?

 

Why didn't MJ, Bird and Magic join forces?

 

Because players back in the 90s had pride and believed in rivalries. We moved on from the 80's Celtics vs Lakers bullshit dynasties, now we are right back there with this Cavs vs GSW shit.

 

Lebron James joining forces with Wade and Bosh (both players were top 4 in PER in the entire league when Lebron joined them) is competitive?

Lebron James joining the Cavs after they won the very first pick in the draft 3 out of the last 4 years, and TWO #4 picks in the draft is being competitive?

 

No, it's called guaranteed finals appearances by playing in a weak eastern conference.

 

KD joining GSW is being competitive? Absolutely not.

 

David Stern veto of the Chris Paul trade to lakers in 2011 was keeping the league competitive.

 

Do we really think that the 2017 finals won't be Cavs vs GSW?

 

Do we really think 343 will ever make a game better than Halo CE?

You cannot factually state that the mentality of the average gamer has changed, there is no way. Unless you somehow surveyed every gamer from before and after whatever's time period you are talking about.

 

And are you kidding me? LeBron re-joining the Cavs made the Finals way more competitive. If he wasn't on the team they wouldn't have even come close to the Finals. The only reason they won was literally him. Im not even gonna get into old school stuff because that's gonna be an essay. But the single season record for wins was held by the Bulls so why the hell would MJ leave? His team was stacked already. Lol and who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors in the Finals? That team made history and they lost to an average team. All the people in the leagues are there for a reason. Everyone thought the Heat would be untouchable for at least 5 years and look what happened.

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You cannot factually state that the mentality of the average gamer has changed, there is no way. Unless you somehow surveyed every gamer from before and after whatever's time period you are talking about.

 

And are you kidding me? LeBron re-joining the Cavs made the Finals way more competitive. If he wasn't on the team they wouldn't have even come close to the Finals. The only reason they won was literally him. Im not even gonna get into old school stuff because that's gonna be an essay. But the single season record for wins was held by the Bulls so why the hell would MJ leave? His team was stacked already. Lol and who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors in the Finals? That team made history and they lost to an average team. All the people in the leagues are there for a reason. Everyone thought the Heat would be untouchable for at least 5 years and look what happened.

 

You don't need to survey every gamer.  You just need to watch streams of what is being played and what kind of games are being designed. 

 

If you can't see that collusion of all-stars by leaving your team to form a super team is a bad thing, then I don't know what to tell you.  We already know it's going to be Cavs vs GSW in the finals.

 

You're asking who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors this year when just last year a depleted Cavs team with no Kyrie, No Love, and No AV took GSW to 6 games?  If the Cavs last year with a depleted roster took GSW to 6 games why wouldn't you think that a healthy roster had a good shot at beating essentially the same team as the year before?

 

Colluding onto teams so that you are guaranteed to play in the ECF is being competitive?

 

Why would MJ leave?  He did leave, twice actually.  

 

Won a 3 peat, then left.

Came back, won a 3 peat, left again.

Came back to play for the Wiz.

 

That's why he is GOAT.  6/6 in the finals with 6 FMVPs to back it up.  Literally did not know how to lose when on a team that was good enough to help him get to the finals.  Lebron is 3/7 in the finals.

 

Like I said, why did Kobe have Shaq leave the team because he wanted to prove that he could win without him?  They would have won more rings together for sure.

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If you can't see that collusion of all-stars by leaving your team to form a super team is a bad thing, then I don't know what to tell you. We already know it's going to be Cavs vs GSW in the finals.

 

You're asking who thought the Cavs would beat the Warriors this year when just last year a depleted Cavs team with no Kyrie, No Love, and No AV took GSW to 6 games? If the Cavs last year with a depleted roster took GSW to 6 games why wouldn't you think that a healthy roster had a good shot at beating essentially the same team as the year before?

 

Colluding onto teams so that you are guaranteed to play in the ECF is being competitive?

 

Why would MJ leave? He did leave, twice actually.

 

Won a 3 peat, then left.

Came back, won a 3 peat, left again.

Came back to play for the Wiz.

 

That's why he is GOAT. 6/6 in the finals with 6 FMVPs to back it up. Literally did not know how to lose when on a team that was good enough to help him get to the finals. Lebron is 3/7 in the finals.

 

Like I said, why did Kobe have Shaq leave the team because he wanted to prove that he could win without him? They would have won more rings together for sure.

Using Finals wins to say "MJ was better" is absolutely ludicrous. I guess Bill Russel was the best in the game right? LeBron has statistically put up way bigger numbers than MJ through the same time-span WITHOUT any College prep. It's a team game after all. This year LBJ had the most points, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals out of every player on EITHER TEAM in the Finals. And the Cavs, without LBJ are utter trash you can look at their record the years before he joined. He is the only reason that team made it to the finals at all. Hell, you can even look at the teams MJ had in the finals and compare that to LBJ and you'll see quite a difference. LBJ even led an average team (again with no college prep) to the Finals in less years than MJ. Let's wait until he retires to make judgements.

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Using Finals wins to say "MJ was better" is absolutely ludicrous. I guess Bill Russel was the best in the game right? LeBron has statistically put up way bigger numbers than MJ through the same time-span WITHOUT any College prep. It's a team game after all. This year LBJ had the most points, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals out of every player on EITHER TEAM in the Finals. And the Cavs, without LBJ are utter trash you can look at their record the years before he joined. He is the only reason that team made it to the finals at all. Hell, you can even look at the teams MJ had in the finals and compare that to LBJ and you'll see quite a difference. LBJ even led an average team (again with no college prep) to the Finals in less years than MJ. Let's wait until he retires to make judgements.

 

We don't need to wait until he retires to make a judgment. 

The finals are not the end all be all reason as to why MJ is arguably the GOAT (KAJ and Wilt are the other 2 guys that you can make a case for) but Lebron does not have a case for GOAT if that is what you are trying to imply.   That ship set sail a long time ago.  

 

You don't look at finals wins, you look at finals wins as the man.  We aren't talking about Robert Horry here.

 

If you think you can just over look the fact that MJ is undefeated in finals play while leading his team to victory each and ever single time he was ever in the finals, you are mistaken.  Lebron was on a staked heat team for 4 years and he was only successful 2/4 times.  It pales in comparison to MJ.

 

When did Michael Jordan ever have a player like Kyrie Irving?

When did MJ have a player that put up 41 points on 17/24 shooting in the finals?  You do realize that 41 points on 71.4% fg is one of the greatest finals performances in NBA history, right?  Search all the data you want on Pippen, you won't find anything even close to what Kyrie did in that finals game.  No Kyrie, and the Cavs don't beat GSW.

 

When did MJ ever have a teammate that did that?

 

You can easily make the argument for MJ that the only reason why the Bulls made it to the finals was because of him.  When have they ever made the finals without him?

 

Any Lebron vs MJ argument is long over before it is even started.   Any basketball forum will have a majority of people that agree with this statement.

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Obviously I wish MCC had turned out better and that everybody had gotten the perfect port we all wanted, but it is a little satisfying to know that MS's decision to tell Gearbox to make garbage ass netcode for Halo PC finally bit them in the ass 12 years later.

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Obviously I wish MCC had turned out better and that everybody had gotten the perfect port we all wanted, but it is a little satisfying to know that MS's decision to tell Gearbox to make garbage ass netcode for Halo PC finally bit them in the ass 12 years later.

And the world goes on. None of this is a big deal for them. And to fix it would be to admit that it was broken in the first place, which is reopening a can of worms that was eventually closed this year by ignoring the community's pleas consistently.

 

Microsoft doesn't even remember the Gearbox deal

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And the world goes on. None of this is a big deal for them. And to fix it would be to admit that it was broken in the first place, which is reopening a can of worms that was eventually closed this year by ignoring the community's pleas consistently.

 

Microsoft doesn't even remember the Gearbox deal

 

The world goes on knowing that 343 could not correctly port a 15+ year old game. 

 

End users of video game software go on functioning like sheep, as they spend money on products that are not finished, and take years to patch.  

 

Just because the software companies can take advantage of the sheep like consumers and sell them products that are not complete doesn't mean that they should, or that it's right.

 

I'm just thankful that I work for a company that makes products that are complete, and tested prior to shipment with rigorous quality control mechanisms in place to ensure that the customer is getting the best possible product.

 

Anything else is just excuses being made by fan boys in support of their favorite gaming developer, worried that the management of said software company may get their feelings hurt if someone calls them out on their incomplete product launches.  This and third party companies who rely on these incomplete launches otherwise their own business is in jeopardy if enough of the consumer base refuses to buy incomplete products that are rushed just so that they hit a holiday launch deadline.  

 

Why do what is right when we can behave like lazy sheep and just spend money on any new product that is put in front of us?

Why pass up the opportunity of instant gratification only to find out later that you've been had?

Why point out facts when they are negative and no one wants to focus on the negative (even though they should) when it's much more pleasant and easy to focus only on the positive?

 

Such is the difference between the leaders and the followers of the world.

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