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Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

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oh and searching snipes trying to get dank clips. I hope the 720p60fps looks beautiful 

Thats some good shit man, keep it up

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I just started playing Halo 1 more on MCC and I was wondering if any Halo 1 experts could tell me what the deal with the pistol is.

 

I swear that I have multiple times each game where I have to shoot someone (without overshield) like 8 times with a pistol to kill them. Is this part of the game design or is it just bugginess/lag?

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I just started playing Halo 1 more on MCC and I was wondering if any Halo 1 experts could tell me what the deal with the pistol is.

 

I swear that I have multiple times each game where I have to shoot someone (without overshield) like 8 times with a pistol to kill them. Is this part of the game design or is it just bugginess/lag?

Do you see bullet sparks?

 

Are you leading targets? The bullets are projectile. You shouldn't have to lead much on small maps though.

 

More likely shitty connections.

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I'm not really sure of the context around this question, but I'll answer it too.

 

I've been playing overwatch a lot, and I'm really starting to hate it. In my opinion, the game just sort of plays like a total cluster fuck. I've watched some high level play, and that looks even more like a cluster fuck. This stems from mechanics that clash with each other. The biggest problem in my opinion is there is no friendly fire. People shoot indiscriminately and there is no penalty for hitting your teammates. Your shots even go through your teammates. Also, you should be able to hurt yourself. Fucking junkrats wouldn't go 3 seconds before killing themselves if they could do damage to themselves.

 

The next issue is that in general, I would consider almost every characters ult extremely corny. I don't have any ideas for less corny ults, but all I know is that most ults are just stupid. Genji, and Mei are the only ults that I think are acceptable as is, although Meis is very underpowered comparatively.

 

Thirdly, you charge up your ult by doing damage to the enemy. Best case, it leads to more random gameplay because you don't really have a way to predict when the enemy will use their ults. Worst case, it can lead to snowballing gameplay as players are rewarded for already doing well. I think a better solution would be for ults to be placed on map, like a halo 1 power up. This would make the game more predictable and give people a reason to traverse the map.

 

The special abilities, (forget what they're called, but Meis ice wall, for instance) are on a cool down timer. The idea is that people don't spam the abilities, but I think this is a poor way to keep this from happening. Again, I think the game would play better if they were on map items you could pick up. Even if you could pick up more than one.

 

There is no ammo. This isn't really a big issue, but I think that needing to pick up ammo produces more predictability through map traversal routes.

 

Support characters in general, and especially mercy, are not fun to use. Most people who I've met that plays support does so because it helps the team win. I've never seen a mercy main that actually plays her because they enjoy it. Just because her ult is completely game changing, and having a mercy player is part of the meta. The fact that there are characters you play simply because you have to is sort of a problem in my opinion. The game would play fine without these characters, but you are forced to have one on your team because the other team has one. Even beyond support, characters not being fun to use is a big issue. Bastion, Reinhardt, I'm looking at you.

 

Now, on top of all these issues, there are all the issues with competitive that everyone is talking about online. Giant hitboxes, coin toss, etc.

 

I really wanted to like this game, but it's just not something I have fun with. I've tried though.

 

Thanks for taking the time to write out your stance on the game. I actually agree with a lot of points you made but disagree with some too. It's a long post so I'm gonna hide it in a spoiler.

 

 

 

I guess I can start with the first point and the one I disagree with most which is that it is a total cluster fuck. There's a lot going on for sure and there's a lot of variables with constant class changing and double classes being allowed but the structure of a team fight is more standard. This game does require some individual skill of knowing how to use classes properly, but it all pales in comparison to the team skill required. It has an incredibly high demand of teamwork in order to find any success. In a different game, we called it the order of operations in which you were supposed to prioritize certain targets when making a play or a push. It's very similar here but some of the DPS classes have a bit more freedom on who they choose to target after the healer goes down.

 

As far as friendly fire goes. I'd be willing to try the game with that enabled. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I do think Junkrats bomb is fine but rathe than taking full damage maybe reduce it with the C4. I don't want to strip his mobility. 

 

I agree that most ultimates are cheesy in terms of skill required. It's difficult to know when exactly the enemy will get their ultimate but you'll typically see classes set them up in the same way making it a bit easier to predict. A random flanking McCree, a reaper wraithing into your team, Reinhardt being dumb aggressive, Pharah trying to get above and behind you etc. While I don't think they take an incredible amount of skill to pull off, I do enjoy the fact that you can interrupt or kill someone in their ultimate. Well placed winston bubble, reinhardt shield, mccree flashbang, or my favorite, a clutch roadhog pull to stop an ultimate to me takes some good knowledge and anticipation.

 

Map pick ups would be a bit iffy. I wouldn't know where to start or stop to properly balance it for offense/defense. I'd like to see ammo boxes just like TF2. I don't know if I would want to require the players to go pick up a power up that allows them to use the abilities. It would require a lot of power ups per side on fast respawn timers to keep up with the current pace of the game.

 

Yes, there are some classes that become a required or forced part of the meta. I'd say that having a mercy though creates a more predictable meta and should limit that cluster fuck you mentioned earlier. Same goes for symmettra on defense for first point. I don't know how many times we've had our lucio speed boost us past the other team to take out the teleporter and screw over their push. The classes I guess are subjective in terms of who finds what fun. Turns out I dislike the same classes that you do and never have fun playing Mercy. Believe it or not I know a few mercys who actually enjoy the class but that number is not nearly close to the amount of Lucios.

 

I feel the biggest problems is the generous hitbox, the tick rate allowing you to get hit through walls, and the new issues with competitive mode that ar dumb. I find that regardless of the hitboxes, it still takes more skill to aim with most classes than it does in other console FPS, especially with a lot of these weapons being projectile based. I think it takes a lot of knowledge to know how to play and play against all the classes, and it requires an extreme amount of co-ordination from the team to have any real success. Maybe more emphasis on team skill than I'd like, considering no matter how good my DPS class is doing I still can't carry solo.

 

Is this game as skill induced as Halo CE or Shadowrun? No, not in my opinion. Does it take more skill than a majority of shooters out there? Yeah I think it does. I wouldn't consider any of the issues that we have with overwatch as gamebreaking or deem it an uncompetitive game otherwise.

 

 

 

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Thanks for taking the time to write out your stance on the game. I actually agree with a lot of points you made but disagree with some too. It's a long post so I'm gonna hide it in a spoiler.

 

 

 

I guess I can start with the first point and the one I disagree with most which is that it is a total cluster fuck. There's a lot going on for sure and there's a lot of variables with constant class changing and double classes being allowed but the structure of a team fight is more standard. This game does require some individual skill of knowing how to use classes properly, but it all pales in comparison to the team skill required. It has an incredibly high demand of teamwork in order to find any success. In a different game, we called it the order of operations in which you were supposed to prioritize certain targets when making a play or a push. It's very similar here but some of the DPS classes have a bit more freedom on who they choose to target after the healer goes down.

 

As far as friendly fire goes. I'd be willing to try the game with that enabled. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun. I do think Junkrats bomb is fine but rathe than taking full damage maybe reduce it with the C4. I don't want to strip his mobility.

 

I agree that most ultimates are cheesy in terms of skill required. It's difficult to know when exactly the enemy will get their ultimate but you'll typically see classes set them up in the same way making it a bit easier to predict. A random flanking McCree, a reaper wraithing into your team, Reinhardt being dumb aggressive, Pharah trying to get above and behind you etc. While I don't think they take an incredible amount of skill to pull off, I do enjoy the fact that you can interrupt or kill someone in their ultimate. Well placed winston bubble, reinhardt shield, mccree flashbang, or my favorite, a clutch roadhog pull to stop an ultimate to me takes some good knowledge and anticipation.

 

Map pick ups would be a bit iffy. I wouldn't know where to start or stop to properly balance it for offense/defense. I'd like to see ammo boxes just like TF2. I don't know if I would want to require the players to go pick up a power up that allows them to use the abilities. It would require a lot of power ups per side on fast respawn timers to keep up with the current pace of the game.

 

Yes, there are some classes that become a required or forced part of the meta. I'd say that having a mercy though creates a more predictable meta and should limit that cluster fuck you mentioned earlier. Same goes for symmettra on defense for first point. I don't know how many times we've had our lucio speed boost us past the other team to take out the teleporter and screw over their push. The classes I guess are subjective in terms of who finds what fun. Turns out I dislike the same classes that you do and never have fun playing Mercy. Believe it or not I know a few mercys who actually enjoy the class but that number is not nearly close to the amount of Lucios.

 

I feel the biggest problems is the generous hitbox, the tick rate allowing you to get hit through walls, and the new issues with competitive mode that ar dumb. I find that regardless of the hitboxes, it still takes more skill to aim with most classes than it does in other console FPS, especially with a lot of these weapons being projectile based. I think it takes a lot of knowledge to know how to play and play against all the classes, and it requires an extreme amount of co-ordination from the team to have any real success. Maybe more emphasis on team skill than I'd like, considering no matter how good my DPS class is doing I still can't carry solo.

 

Is this game as skill induced as Halo CE or Shadowrun? No, not in my opinion. Does it take more skill than a majority of shooters out there? Yeah I think it does. I wouldn't consider any of the issues that we have with overwatch as gamebreaking or deem it an uncompetitive game otherwise.

 

 

 

Biggest question though. Does it NEED to be an Arena shooter? Not really. It's trying to fill it's own niche and doing it well. Changing it so that it's a different style of gameplay kind of ruins the point and is a huge backhand to the devs.

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Thanks for taking the time to write out your stance on the game. I actually agree with a lot of points you made but disagree with some too. It's a long post so I'm gonna hide it in a spoiler.

 

... snip ...

 

Very interesting. Just to note, I just realized you've been playing on console, while I've been playing on PC. From what I've seen, the game is way more fast paced on PC with mouse/keyboard, which is part of the reason why I called it somewhat of a clusterfuck. It doesn't help that I've never played a class based fps before, so that could be part of the reason I feel this way. I could just need more time to familiarize myself with the way they play. 

 

 

 

Just putting this in a spoiler because I'm not sure how long this will end up. When I said that player abilities should be on map pickups, I also meant that you could hold more than one. For instance, you start off with lets say 5 Ice Walls (I'm a Mei main lol), and you can hold up to 10. You can use them as whenever you want, ie no cooldown timer. Once you are out, you will have to navigate to spot in the map where they spawn. There doesn't necessarily have to be that many spots where they spawn, or on that fast of a timer. The idea is that choosing to use the special ability should be a tough choice, but not just because there's a 10 second cool down before you can use it again.

 

Also, on top of everything I wrote in my original post, there's 1000 little things that annoy me when I play. Like the fact that the auto turrets and sentries, (which are concepts I already think are questionable) are hitscan and have perfect aim. I've literally been crossmap quickscoped by autoturrets before. I can't think of any of it off the top of my head, but I tend to start noticing all sorts of annoying crap when I'm playing it.

 

Overall, I agree with your conclusion. Definitely an extremely skillful game and competitive game. Far better than anything else I can think of coming out recently. Still, I only really enjoy playing it casually at the moment. Full disclosure, that might just be because I'm pretty bad at aiming with m/k, and I've never actually been able to play with a full team. 

 

 

 

I'm actually interested in discussing this further, but I don't want to fill up the MCC thread with overwatch analysis. I can make a thread in gaming general for this topic if anyone is interested.

 

Biggest question though. Does it NEED to be an Arena shooter? Not really. It's trying to fill it's own niche and doing it well. Changing it so that it's a different style of gameplay kind of ruins the point and is a huge backhand to the devs.

 

Simply making the changes we discussed would not turn Overwatch into an arena shooter. It's still class based, no regenerating shields, no utility weapon, completely different map design, etc. It would just play a little more cohesively, which I think would make the game more balanced and deeper competitively. Whether or not it would actually end up being more competitive is another question, but I am certain I would enjoy it more.

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Very interesting. Just to note, I just realized you've been playing on console, while I've been playing on PC. From what I've seen, the game is way more fast paced on PC with mouse/keyboard, which is part of the reason why I called it somewhat of a clusterfuck. It doesn't help that I've never played a class based fps before, so that could be part of the reason I feel this way. I could just need more time to familiarize myself with the way they play. 

 

 

 

Just putting this in a spoiler because I'm not sure how long this will end up. When I said that player abilities should be on map pickups, I also meant that you could hold more than one. For instance, you start off with lets say 5 Ice Walls (I'm a Mei main lol), and you can hold up to 10. You can use them as whenever you want, ie no cooldown timer. Once you are out, you will have to navigate to spot in the map where they spawn. There doesn't necessarily have to be that many spots where they spawn, or on that fast of a timer. The idea is that choosing to use the special ability should be a tough choice, but not just because there's a 10 second cool down before you can use it again.

 

Also, on top of everything I wrote in my original post, there's 1000 little things that annoy me when I play. Like the fact that the auto turrets and sentries, (which are concepts I already think are questionable) are hitscan and have perfect aim. I've literally been crossmap quickscoped by autoturrets before. I can't think of any of it off the top of my head, but I tend to start noticing all sorts of annoying crap when I'm playing it.

 

Overall, I agree with your conclusion. Definitely an extremely skillful game and competitive game. Far better than anything else I can think of coming out recently. Still, I only really enjoy playing it casually at the moment. Full disclosure, that might just be because I'm pretty bad at aiming with m/k, and I've never actually been able to play with a full team. 

 

 

 

I'm actually interested in discussing this further, but I don't want to fill up the MCC thread with overwatch analysis. I can make a thread in gaming general for this topic if anyone is interested.

 

 

Simply making the changes we discussed would not turn Overwatch into an arena shooter. It's still class based, no regenerating shields, no utility weapon, completely different map design, etc. It would just play a little more cohesively, which I think would make the game more balanced and deeper competitively. Whether or not it would actually end up being more competitive is another question, but I am certain I would enjoy it more.

Idk. I just see Overwatch as controlled chaos and I like it that way.

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Even though I know it's probably an ok shooter and has gotten great reviews, I refuse to play Overwatch out of principle and spite (kinda like what I've been doing with H5). Apart from me just preferring a more arena-style experience, I fucking hate MOBAs/League, and refuse to board this "evolution" of shooters being polluted by MOBA elements and potentially slowly turning into them. I'm sorry, but that's not/shouldn't be "the next step" for shooters. *smh* Why does EVERYTHING have to be class-based now? Why does everything have to have "heroes"? Why does every game have to allow for the ability to "customize to your liking", regardless of how it might negatively impact the actual GAMEPLAY and balance (ya know, the most important thing in shooters)? Why does everything have to be about "projecting and infusing your personality into your character, and having them be an extension of the player" now? Just, no. It's fucking stupid. Whatever happened to just playing with whatever was given to you?

 

But then again, as I've said before, I'm old.  :eyes:

 

I also just have WAY too many games to play right now, even if I wanted to. Don't have the time. My backlog is outta control.  :wutface:

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Even though I know it's probably an ok shooter and has gotten great reviews, I refuse to play Overwatch out of principle and spite (kinda like what I've been doing with H5). Apart from me just preferring a more arena-style experience, I fucking hate MOBAs/League, and refuse to board this "evolution" of shooters being polluted by MOBA elements and potentially slowly turning into them. I'm sorry, but that's not/shouldn't be "the next step" for shooters. *smh* Why does EVERYTHING have to be class-based now? Why does everything have to have "heroes"? Why does every game have to allow for the ability to "customize to your liking", regardless of how it might negatively impact the actual GAMEPLAY and balance (ya know, the most important thing in shooters)? Why does everything have to be about "projecting and infusing your personality into your character, and having them be an extension of the player" now? Just, no. It's fucking stupid. Whatever happened to just playing with whatever was given to you?

 

But then again, as I've said before, I'm old.  :eyes:

 

I also just have WAY too many games to play right now, even if I wanted to. Don't have the time. My backlog is outta control.  :wutface:

I won't say that Overwatch doesn't have some MOBA elements to it, but its definitely more heavily influenced by Team Fortress 2 than anything else.

Its not like Class based shooter are really new (TF2 has been out for almost a decade, there is also stuff like Battlefield, even Shadowrun to an extent). They are just becoming more popular.

When something gets popular you tend to see a lot of clones pop up with every developers "spin" on the game.

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Even though I know it's probably an ok shooter and has gotten great reviews, I refuse to play Overwatch out of principle and spite (kinda like what I've been doing with H5). Apart from me just preferring a more arena-style experience, I fucking hate MOBAs/League, and refuse to board this "evolution" of shooters being polluted by MOBA elements and potentially slowly turning into them. I'm sorry, but that's not/shouldn't be "the next step" for shooters. *smh* Why does EVERYTHING have to be class-based now? Why does everything have to have "heroes"? Why does every game have to allow for the ability to "customize to your liking", regardless of how it might negatively impact the actual GAMEPLAY and balance (ya know, the most important thing in shooters)? Why does everything have to be about "projecting and infusing your personality into your character, and having them be an extension of the player" now? Just, no. It's fucking stupid. Whatever happened to just playing with whatever was given to you?

 

But then again, as I've said before, I'm old.  :eyes:

 

I also just have WAY too many games to play right now, even if I wanted to. Don't have the time. My backlog is outta control.  :wutface:

 

I feel the exact same way man.  You're not alone.

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Just my opinion, but for my money, the older Halos blow the new ones out of the water!

 

 

Thats how it has always been lol

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It takes a special kind of person to continue playing this game despite all the problems. Hats off to you guys you are true halo fans.

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Even though I know it's probably an ok shooter and has gotten great reviews, I refuse to play Overwatch out of principle and spite (kinda like what I've been doing with H5). Apart from me just preferring a more arena-style experience, I fucking hate MOBAs/League, and refuse to board this "evolution" of shooters being polluted by MOBA elements and potentially slowly turning into them. I'm sorry, but that's not/shouldn't be "the next step" for shooters. *smh* Why does EVERYTHING have to be class-based now? Why does everything have to have "heroes"? Why does every game have to allow for the ability to "customize to your liking", regardless of how it might negatively impact the actual GAMEPLAY and balance (ya know, the most important thing in shooters)? Why does everything have to be about "projecting and infusing your personality into your character, and having them be an extension of the player" now? Just, no. It's fucking stupid. Whatever happened to just playing with whatever was given to you?

 

But then again, as I've said before, I'm old. :eyes:

 

I also just have WAY too many games to play right now, even if I wanted to. Don't have the time. My backlog is outta control. :wutface:

I don't understand the need to have some weird arbitrary reason to not like a game when that reason is "It's following a trend". Just seems like a lame excuse to be a Hipster. You should not judge a game like that and instead play it and give it a chance.

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I don't understand the need to have some weird arbitrary reason to not like a game when that reason is "It's following a trend". Just seems like a lame excuse to be a Hipster. You should not judge a game like that and instead play it and give it a chance.

He gave a ton of reasons and it's mostly about his personal preference. Try reading his post again.

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He gave a ton of reasons and it's mostly about his personal preference. Try reading his post again.

I did. He stated he disliked MOBAs and didn't like that they were starting to populate the shooter genre and that is a fair point. But his main critique was that Overwatch is just following a trend and that's the argument that I have a problem with.

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I did. He stated he disliked MOBAs and didn't like that they were starting to populate the shooter genre and that is a fair point. But his main critique was that Overwatch is just following a trend and that's the argument that I have a problem with.

 

Well to be fair it's a trend that isn't particularly popular among players of classic arena-style shooters, who value gameplay where everyone starts on an even playing field and the only determining factors in terms of winning/losing come down to map movement and manipulating exploitable elements of a deep meta. To me it seems a little too convenient that the class-based shooter genre just so happens to cater to a huge demographic. It's almost as if it's a genre that was engineered to appeal to a vast audience of players who require constant validation and a progression-based XP system rather than a skill-based ranking system.

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Well to be fair it's a trend that isn't particularly popular among players of classic arena-style shooters, who value gameplay where everyone starts on an even playing field and the only determining factors in terms of winning/losing come down to map movement and manipulating exploitable elements of a deep meta. To me it seems a little too convenient that the class-based shooter genre just so happens to cater to a huge demographic. It's almost as if it's a genre that was engineered to appeal to a vast audience of players who require constant validation and a progression-based XP system rather than a skill-based ranking system.

 

I like where this discussion is going.  

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Except that OW has a skill based ranking system, and it works better than our last 4 Halo games, arguably every Halo game when you factor in being lvl 25 to play ranked pretty much eliminates alts and boosting.

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