Jump to content
CyReN

Halo: The Master Chief Collection Discussion

Recommended Posts

End-User License Agreement

Don't have one. How would he sue though? MS has lawyers and money, plus they can easily hand-wave away allegations by saying the framework and everything was there, but the networking had (insert excuse here) and it'll get settled rather quickly.

Share this post


Link to post

Don't have one. How would he sue though? MS has lawyers and money, plus they can easily hand-wave away allegations by saying the framework and everything was there, but the networking had (insert excuse here) and it'll get settled rather quickly.

 

I don't think he intended to sue, just to provide some precedent and be able to say whether or not what they did was total bullshit.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think he intended to sue, just to provide some precedent and be able to say whether or not what they did was total bullshit.

The only way you set a precedent is if you win...just doing it isn't enough.

Share this post


Link to post

Does anyone have a copy of the EULA for this game (speaking of MCC)? I'm an attorney that does a lot of work with deceptive trade practices and want to review it. I don't have an Xbox One or Xbox store account, so I have been having some trouble tracking it down.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/halo/comments/47oyrm/master_chief_collection_still_broken_in_2016/d0er106

 

Can anyone link this guy the MCC EULA?

Share this post


Link to post

I just posted that you slut

 

That's what I get for not ever reading BE anymore. Did it ever get answered?

Share this post


Link to post

End-User License Agreement

I'm a lawyer and floated this case a long time ago to a friend of mine (this isn't my area of practice) at a top New York plaintiff's firm. They looked at it and had zero interest. That's not saying that some idiot somewhere won't file something on it, but I trust the folks I spoke with that any case against 343 for MCC being a train wreck isn't worth much money. People can get away with murder when it comes to advertising. You can try breach of contract (ie the Eula and it surely isn't written in your favor, I can promise you that) but it's weak - what's your best case remedy? On a individual level it's less than $600, even assuming you bought the Xbox because of MCC. That's not even 2 hours of attorney time. Good luck certifying a class on such a claim, which is the only way to aggregate and make the case make economic sense. Unfortunately, there isn't much to be done and software companies will continue to be allowed to use consumers as beta testers. The only real hope is either some legislative initiative (which the software lobby will kill in a heartbeat) or some consumer protection agency getting someone ambitious in it trying to make a name for themselves. Blows.
  • Upvote (+1) 4

Share this post


Link to post

I'm a lawyer and floated this case a long time ago to a friend of mine (this isn't my area of practice) at a top New York plaintiff's firm. They looked at it and had zero interest. That's not saying that some idiot somewhere won't file something on it, but I trust the folks I spoke with that any case against 343 for MCC being a train wreck isn't worth much money. People can get away with murder when it comes to advertising. You can try breach of contract (ie the Eula and it surely isn't written in your favor, I can promise you that) but it's weak - what's your best case remedy? On a individual level it's less than $600, even assuming you bought the Xbox because of MCC. That's not even 2 hours of attorney time. Good luck certifying a class on such a claim, which is the only way to aggregate and make the case make economic sense. Unfortunately, there isn't much to be done and software companies will continue to be allowed to use consumers as beta testers. The only real hope is either some legislative initiative (which the software lobby will kill in a heartbeat) or some consumer protection agency getting someone ambitious in it trying to make a name for themselves. Blows.

 

Again, I don't think there's actually a way to bring this into a courtroom, but it would be interesting to compare it to similar fiascoes in the video game/general entertainment realm and see if the actual transgression committed measures up against what others have tried to get away with - just from an ethical perspective.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Again, I don't think there's actually a way to bring this into a courtroom, but it would be interesting to compare it to similar fiascoes in the video game/general entertainment realm and see if the actual transgression committed measures up against what others have tried to get away with - just from an ethical perspective.

Gamers on console are lazy, the Halo community especially. Everyone is now Mr. Forgiveness with 343 and accept a lot of their practices. Don't count on it.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Need some more for CE customs tonight, will be playing with some RL friends who are terrible, so if you're looking for high skill level it probably won't be the lobby for you. Anyways we'll be on all night starting around 7 or 8 eastern.

 

Down for 2s, 4s or even BTB style if there's that many people. I should have a 3 box or a 2 + 1 single.

 

Gt: Mtbrown07

Share this post


Link to post

I'm hoping that they release a big update for E3. Use it as a way to bring back in people who left. Make it a huge PR scene being like "It was a lot of hard work bla bla bla. But we finally fixed it"

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Again, I don't think there's actually a way to bring this into a courtroom, but it would be interesting to compare it to similar fiascoes in the video game/general entertainment realm and see if the actual transgression committed measures up against what others have tried to get away with - just from an ethical perspective.

I agree - I would also love to see internal documents and emails to see when they knew they had a big problem on their hands. If they shipped knowing it was going to be a train wreck that would be enlightening. I actually tend to believe them in that their internal testing did not show that they had a big problem on their hands, or at least as big of a problem as they had. I'm cynical and have seen lots of bad corporate behavior, but it's not actually in their interest from a reputation standpoint to ship junk. Halo is a huge, very important franchise and most owners of properties like this don't purposefully go dragging their golden franchise name through the dirt. There's a famous quote from a judge "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don’t rule out malice…". From what I've seen of 343 incompetence is the more likely explanation for MCC (well, poor oversight, since they allegedly farmed everything out.)

Share this post


Link to post

Well of course nobody wants to ship out a piece of crap, but if halfway through the development cycle all you've got is a steaming pile, some quickly approaching deadlines, and the Micronazis breathing down your neck...

Share this post


Link to post

I agree - I would also love to see internal documents and emails to see when they knew they had a big problem on their hands. If they shipped knowing it was going to be a train wreck that would be enlightening. I actually tend to believe them in that their internal testing did not show that they had a big problem on their hands, or at least as big of a problem as they had. I'm cynical and have seen lots of bad corporate behavior, but it's not actually in their interest from a reputation standpoint to ship junk. Halo is a huge, very important franchise and most owners of properties like this don't purposefully go dragging their golden franchise name through the dirt. There's a famous quote from a judge "never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don’t rule out malice…". From what I've seen of 343 incompetence is the more likely explanation for MCC (well, poor oversight, since they allegedly farmed everything out.)

 

I don't think they knew that the online was going be completely dead on arrival...but they definitely knew about tons of other problems in the game and shipped it anyway. Either that or they have the worst QA team ever.

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm also a lawyer, albeit from a European jurisdiction (Norway). I was intrigued by this statement:

 

Good luck certifying a class on such a claim, which is the only way to aggregate and make the case make economic sense.

 

Why would certifying a class be so difficult under US civ pro law? Since the game code, and thus the issues, are exactly the same for all buyers I have always thought that a class action would be a viable possibility in this case. At least I think it could have been accepted as a class action in my own/european jurisdictions. So what is making things difficult there across the pond?

Share this post


Link to post

I agree - I would also love to see internal documents and emails to see when they knew they had a big problem on their hands. If they shipped knowing it was going to be a train wreck that would be enlightening.

Sorry for the double post, but this also got me thinking; the discovery process in a court case against 343i would be extremely interesting. If there is some rich-ass Halo fan out there that really wants to see what the *!?** went on behind the scenes, there is an idea...  ;)

 

EDIT: I would also like to volunteer for the doc review, pro bono! (That's not a phrase you hear every day :simms: )

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

Why can a company the size of 343 backed by MS not stick a dedicated team on MCC and keep it updated, I assume they could add new maps, playlists its pretty fucking embarrassing.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

So the game still doesn't work properly?

It works, but has problems

 

HCE Pistol reg still isn't right.

H2 is somewhere in between Vista and OG H2.

H3 BR still feels different to me (others say its fine).

Map rotation is horrible. Certain maps are popping up much more than other.

H3 has this glitch.

Shameless self promotion I know

Playlists still need tweaking as some playlists are dead.

Halo Bugs still has a huge list of stuff wrong with HCE.

I still get randomly booted from games before it starts and get banned for getting booted.

The list goes on.

 

But yeah you can log on and play a game. I guess that define "working"

  • Upvote (+1) 3

Share this post


Link to post

I'm also a lawyer, albeit from a European jurisdiction (Norway). I was intrigued by this statement:

 

 

Why would certifying a class be so difficult under US civ pro law? Since the game code, and thus the issues, are exactly the same for all buyers I have always thought that a class action would be a viable possibility in this case. At least I think it could have been accepted as a class action in my own/european jurisdictions. So what is making things difficult there across the pond?

Class action lawsuits have been abused in the US, so it tends to take a pretty solid showing on each element to get a class certified these days. The EA Battlefield case is somewhat similar and got kicked. (http://www.reuters.com/article/usa-securities-battlefield-idUSL1N0XV0ED20150504). That firm brought that case as a CA on behalf of shareholders rather than purchasers - that tells you where they thought their best case was (where the best damages case was/best chance of success) and they still lost (statements about the game were just puffery). I think the EA case will have a chilling effect on subsequent lawsuits based on poor game performance.

Share this post


Link to post

Well of course nobody wants to ship out a piece of crap, but if halfway through the development cycle all you've got is a steaming pile, some quickly approaching deadlines, and the Micronazis breathing down your neck...

I get it, but I also think delay is a perfectly reasonable course of action, which many developers take.

Share this post


Link to post

I get it, but I also think delay is a perfectly reasonable course of action, which many developers take.

 

Cruel irony - they should've delayed MCC, and shouldn't have delayed Forge/BTB in favor of Warzone

 

:lxthul:

  • Upvote (+1) 2

Share this post


Link to post

Good point on the EA lawsuit, @@Von Manstein. I had forgot about that, even though I checked out the decision when it was in the news. Thanks for the reply.

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Tried to play MCC again last night. Found two games in H2C and nothing but Halo 3 in dubs like usual. Customs in this game are still insanely fun, but the population just isn't there sadly. Xbox is up on craigslist now.

 

 

rip halo rip xbox rip childhood

  • Upvote (+1) 6

Share this post


Link to post

Played a bunch of H1 matchmaking today and damn it's so nice that people are actually able to miss shots and comebacks can happen since the game isn't hitscan.

 

Also it seems like the /r/Halo mods are a bunch of shills a thread about fixing MCC is the top thread and they have the comments randomized in the thread.  :kappa:

  • Upvote (+1) 1

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.